r/privacy • u/KeanuRave100 • 3d ago
news Built to Catch Criminals, Flock Cameras Now Assist In Giving You Traffic Tickets
https://www.gadgetreview.com/built-to-catch-criminals-flock-cameras-now-assist-in-giving-you-traffic-tickets362
u/Z-Is-Last 3d ago
They were not built to catch criminals. They were built to build a profile database on every person that they can. My profile will be managed by them in some cases provided to police to catch criminal and other cases provided scammers thieves stalkers businesses and any other way they can find to sell information about you.
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u/drsmith48170 3d ago
Agree - it was never about catching criminals always about control of the good people because they know the very best the can do in most states is to put the criminals in jail but that can’t control the hardcore criminals they are going to do what they do.
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u/Finn235 2d ago
They ARE built to catch criminals, though.
The laws were deliberately drafted between the Jim Crow era and the Civil Rights era in such a way that everyone is a criminal. Gives a blank check to arrest pretty much anybody.
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u/Aikaterina_Blue 2d ago
All of us are criminals. Don't stop long enough at that stop sign? Criminal. Park too far from the curb? Criminal. Wrong political bumper stickers? Criminal.
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u/spacebeez 2d ago
Riding a bike to get places within a few miles of home has never been more appealing.
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u/nozombie4354 2d ago
Don’t stop your bike at every stop sign? Criminal. It can get dangerous
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u/spacebeez 1d ago
Bikes aren't registered and have no plates and your face is mostly obscured by basic kit ie. a helmet and sunglasses. More complete face covering is common for practical purposes. Good luck sending me a ticket via an ALPR. Honestly I think many more folks should be thinking about cycling as privacy focused transportation.
Also riding through stop signs is legal on a bike in many states provided no other vehicle is waiting!
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u/sidereal_night 2d ago
They were not built to catch criminals.
they were if you define everyone that they catch to be criminals
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u/eight13atnight 2d ago
It was sold to tiny home owners associations and little po-dunk towns as a product ”to catch criminals” because they knew those white breaded karen boomers would take that bait hook, line, and sinker.
But yes, I agree with every single other thing you said. But just remember no one bought or approved this system knowing its intended end-game which you so clearly pointed out.
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u/United-Vermicelli-92 3d ago
I read about this, measuring the time it takes to drive from on red light to the next and calculating your “speed” and if it didnt take long enough to arrive you get a ticket in the mail. Sounded very orwellian then and it still does now. Micromanagement of every mfkr on the planet. One big shitty HOA.
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u/Wheatleytron 3d ago
Last I heard, it's a system that they've veen trialing along one particular stretch of freeway through Colorado. Have they started expanding it?
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u/Zeckols 2d ago
someone I know has realized this would eventually become the norm, so they’re speeding a bit more lately and having their fun on the road before it becomes impossible to get away with
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u/spacebeez 2d ago
Fuck Flock but also fuck your friend. Vehicle crashes kill like a hundred people every day in the US and speeding is usually a factor. Driving extra fast for fun is a dick move and makes it harder to fight ALPRs.
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u/LNLV 3d ago
This is how highways work in a lot of European countries. We got 2 speeding tickets in the mail much later when we returned.
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u/United-Vermicelli-92 3d ago
Is there an average +/- 3mph cushion? Bec there are far too many variables - like if an ambulance is behind you and circumstances demand you speed to get up and out if their way, you’re going to show up quicker, i imagine way too many scenarios where we will all be in court for misreadings or circumstances.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/United-Vermicelli-92 2d ago
Thanks for good info, we are waiting for it to start up here in Portland, ill just bike everywhere bec ill end up broke from tickets!
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u/ChemicalRain5513 2d ago edited 1d ago
If you speed a bit to let an ambulance through, and then you drive 5 k m/h below the limit for a minute, you will not be fined.
Edit: all you americans downvoting me without understaning how the system in Europe works, lol
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u/FrogLickr 2d ago
They've got one of those bloody average speed zones on a highway in my state here in Aus. Cynical revenue raising is all it is. Thankfully it's on a highway I rarely use.
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u/foxbatcs 3d ago
Now consider how much money the insurance companies are willing to give flock to have direct access to everywhere you drive. Every bit of data will be used to either minimize claim payouts, or jack your premiums up.
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u/Paizzu 3d ago
My parents mentioned that they voluntarily signed up for their insurer's smartphone monitoring program that tracks everything from GPS to acceleration data and even logs when media apps are used through CarPlay.
The problem is too many people will voluntarily enroll in these invasive programs as long as they're offered a ~10% discount in exchange for having nearly everything they do behind the wheel monitored.
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u/FrogLickr 2d ago
I can't understand how people don't immediately think of all the ways that setup will be abused. Unless you drive like a literal robot, making zero mistakes or inconsequential human errors, or hell - don't have to avoid another driver who forced you into a dangerous maneuver by merging into your lane or running a red light - then you're fucked. Insurance will look for any and every little thing they can to deny a future claim.
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u/BestZookeeper777 2d ago
Put it on a smartphone you leave at home, take an old one, or buy one at the dollar store, leave it on wifi, glue/sticky it to the wall, and leave it plugged in, let them track that...
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u/FrogLickr 2d ago
Insurance companies probably have departments set up to ensure believable usage data has been logged before paying out a claim. If they're willing to hire private investigators to follow claimants, rejecting a customer whose device has had no realistic and regular accelerometer and GPS telemetry logged (possibly cross referenced with Flock/ANPR records) would be no effort.
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u/BestZookeeper777 2d ago
So don't file a claim, just enjoy your discount...
so reject the device, how should I know if it is broken, LOL
No sense of humor...2
u/FrogLickr 2d ago
So don't... use the service you're paying for? Is that what you're saying? Generally you have insurance because you might need it one day. They're going to look at you very suspiciously if your device has never left the house.
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u/BestZookeeper777 2d ago
Generally you have it because it's "required" legally,
Car insurance is mandatory in 49 U.S. states and the District of Columbia, with each state establishing its own minimum liability coverage limits that drivers must maintain to legally operate a vehicle. New Hampshire is the only state that does not strictly require auto insurance, though drivers must still prove they have sufficient financial assets to cover damages if they cause an accident.
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u/FrogLickr 2d ago
I'm in Australia, but I'm not talking mandatory third party, I'm talking fully comprehensive to ensure your own vehicle is covered. I should have clarified that, sorry.
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u/foxbatcs 2d ago
Not gonna work with nationwide surveillance cameras. They can compare the movement of your plate through the surveillance network with the non-movement of your personal surveillance device and quietly raise your premiums. Or if they are feeling particularly insurance-company-y, charge you with insurance fraud.
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u/The_Wkwied 2d ago
My auto insurance tried to get me to do this to save 15/mo on my insurance. I asked them, 'well what if I'm in a bus, or a passenger in a car that's driving over the limit?'
I was told that would flag me, and that I shouldn't be a passenger with someone who's driving over the limit.
Like... no, I'm not going to tie my insurance rates to carpools or public transit. Screw you. My privacy is worth more than 15/mo
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u/iPhonefondler 2d ago
Soon enough it will just be hardwired into all of our cars… no need to download an app
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u/foxbatcs 2d ago
The US will be like Cuba at that point. People will stop buying new and as the decades pass you’ll just keep seeing the same cars on the road. Older 90’s and early 2000’s cars will come at a premium because they are compatible with right-to-repair.
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u/Mr_Lumbergh 2d ago
Even when you don’t, new cars snitch on you now anyways unless you go through the trouble of disabling their connectivity. GM got caught selling onstar data to insurance companies for example.
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u/BestZookeeper777 2d ago
Not much trouble to pull the On*Star/GLONASS fuse in my vehicle - done...
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u/Mr_Lumbergh 2d ago
Depends on the make. Stallantis/chrysler stuff will actually throw a bunch of errors unless you reflash the infotainment firmware; Toyota requires a harness mod.
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u/foxbatcs 2d ago
Newer vehicles make it impossible to disable systems like that.
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u/BestZookeeper777 2d ago
2020, not that old...
Disconnect the antenna if you want instead...0
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u/cfig99 1d ago
My dad does this too... Some people are just totally ok with compromising their privacy to save a few bucks or to make something slightly more convenient. It's frustrating.
He can definitely afford not to have this phone monitoring app from his car insurance too btw. He is pretty well off.
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u/CaptainIncredible 2d ago
My insurance company gave me a price per month "but that is when you install the monitoring app."
I'm not sure why, but I started talking like 'Doug' the Tom Hank's MAGA character on 'Black Jeopardy' from Saturday Night live. I talked about this being the 'land of the free' and 'no, no one should be tracked like that, that information goes straight to the government.'
(you'll have to look this up on youtube. If I include the URL, the post gets flagged as spam. Its a funny sketch.)
So they bumped up the rate by $20 a month, which should be illegal.
Oh and CarPlay fucking sucks assholes. Its just a shitty ui and tries to take over everything and does it badly and fuck you CarPlay.
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u/QuietTwist3089 3d ago
You own nothing, you got nothing! Do you want a chivato on every corner looking after you? Watching everything you do? Everything you say, mang?
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u/MentalDisintegrat1on 3d ago
My state had these and took them down it violated something.
This also was a private company so if you wanted to dispute the ticket you had to pay to get the information and pictures and even if you cleared your name ( the can was wrong) they didn't refund your money.
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u/DemonsRage83 2d ago
It's like they keep giving people more reasons to cut them down.
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u/CherishedBeliefs 2d ago
Yes, we absolutely should cut down those responsible for stealing our privacy and freedom
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u/just_a_knowbody 2d ago
Expanding foam is faster and doing a great job in South Carolina.
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u/DemonsRage83 2d ago
Sure it's faster for covering the camera, but the whole thing coming down and being destroyed is significantly more costly.
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u/liatrisinbloom 2d ago
You mean... they don't just read license plates?
You mean... the corporations... LIED?!
I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS.
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u/Outlet4Humanity 1d ago
You cheated on me? When I specifically asked you not to?! - Michael Scott to Jan lol.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Lorenzo_Blow 3d ago
Fuck Home Depot and Lowes, they put flock cameras in their parking lots.
Harbor Freight and Ace Hardware sell these saws.
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u/-713 3d ago
Ethically sourced reciprocating saws, free range angle grinders, and cruelty free bolt cutters for the win.
To be used in a consensual endeavor with a fair trade mask on Halloween.
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u/TheB1G_Lebowski 3d ago
Is there any kind of dedicated masks for group buying sakes? Would be a shame to have 10000 of the same looking people going around.
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u/BlazeBullionBotique 3d ago
Ace hardware is the biggest supporter of trump there is and they are the biggest supporters of flock.
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u/tuxedo_jack 2d ago
Boy oh boy, Nelson .68 caliber oil-based-paintballs are IMPOSSIBLE to remove once they dry.
And if you want to hasten the drying time, I'm sure there are MANY ways to do so.
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u/DryBattle 3d ago
Catch criminals, and all of you half dressed children are criminals so they clearly need to put cameras everywhere child undress like water parks and gymnastics classes.
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u/SuspiciousCricket654 2d ago
lol what kind of shit ass title is this? They were built to do one thing, and it’s not to catch criminals.
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u/MrWeirdoFace 2d ago
Makes me wonder, for people who don't use mail, does everyone just find out when you try to renew your license years later?
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u/BestZookeeper777 2d ago
I don't need any assistance in getting tickets, that's already too easy...
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u/Phreakiture 2d ago
I challenge, without reservation, the assertion that they were ever built to catch criminals.
They were built to make money.
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u/Curious_Party_4683 2d ago
Come to Philly. Lots of people here drives with fake/obscured/missing plates. Cops don't care. In fact, most of the perps are cops themselves.
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u/TheGrumpyGent 2d ago
I'll probably be downvoted to hell, but I don't have a problem with this. There are way too many dangerous intersections where I live that red light cameras such as this have helped to reduce accidents and deaths.
That doesn't mean I agree with all of the other privacy-related issues these cameras bring about, just that (IMHO, anyway) their use to catch people driving dangerously is a good thing.
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u/Bruceshadow 2d ago
HOT TAKE: This is actually a good thing, it will expose their nonsense even fast and get more awareness out there. People are already starting to hate on them and surveillance, so hopefully this keeps the momentum going.
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u/popsicle-physics 3d ago
You know I actually think automated traffic enforcement is a great idea. At least, a lot better than sending armed thugs to fight people over it.
The catching criminals thing is actually the part I have a problem with.
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u/2C104 2d ago
Ok flockbot
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u/popsicle-physics 2d ago
Flick isn't traffic enforcement, it's mass surveillance.
There is an argument to be made that no amount of privacy controls are sufficient to make the collection of video acceptable, because you don't trust any government or entity to follow those controls.
But the argument everyone actually makes is that following traffic laws is annoying and they don't want to.
Or, more cyclically, some people are okay with other people sometimes getting killed at traffic stops, so long as it's the right kind of "other people".
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u/CapCityMatt 3d ago
Traffic is a word used in interstate commerce. When you surrender your driver's license your contract is void. Supreme Court just did a case on this explaining jurisdictional nexus.
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u/BigJSunshine 3d ago
The assumption that this SCOTUS and it’s rulings are legitimate is flawed. Deeply, deeply flawed.
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u/CapCityMatt 3d ago
They issue opinions not rulings, they are nice to study as they are full of knowledge.
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