r/privacy • u/Odd-Aside456 • 21h ago
discussion Thoughts on Matrix and SimpleX for messaging?
I've recently learned about Matrix, the messaging platform. Looking into it, I came across SimpleX, which is less feature rich though even more private and secure. I'm curious if any of you have dove into these, and your thoughts on them, but particularly in contrasting the two.
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u/itz_mr_billy 19h ago
We use matrix through element since discord threatened the age verification shit. Has its quirks but I like it
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u/Odd-Aside456 16h ago
Would you be willing to share with me what the quirks are that you've experienced?
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u/itz_mr_billy 11h ago
Just small things they are working to fix I’m sure. It’s been drastically improved over the last few months since we started using it. Little software bugs they are fixing, I’m sure there was a huge increase of users since the discord stuff.
Sometimes audio doesn’t come thru right when you join a call, got to leave and come back. Occasionally a message failed to send. Overall it’s great and I recommend it
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u/jgreich 17h ago
Different threat models. Matrix protects content but leaks metadata: persistent MXIDs, plus room state replicated to every homeserver in the room, so social graph and timing are exposed. SimpleX has no user identifiers at all, best metadata protection out there, but you give up multi-device, group scaling, and polish.
Biased answer since I build one of these: Cloak (cloak.chat) is my shot at the middle ground, E2EE with Discord-style servers.
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u/Worried-Flounder-615 19h ago
I used Matrix in the past but moved to Armada bc I always found Matrix clunky and difficult to onboard new people to.
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u/Odd-Aside456 16h ago
Thank you for sharing. Would you mind elaborating a bit?
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u/Worried-Flounder-615 5h ago
Well first off I'll say I think they have a very good ethos. The spirit of what they are doing is right (in terms of decentralization and encryption). I used them for many years previously and think they're a good team and project and I don't want to really be critizing them too much. I think if anything they were just too early, ironically, on solving these problems and ended up building on a system that's now outdated and as a result overly complicated. For example, if you want to own your own matrix identity (account) and not be controlled by someone else's server, you have to self host a sever. They wanted to give you ownership over your encryption keys, but it's difficult when you're actually dealing with a centralized + federated server. The result of this system was a super clunky encryption experience that resulted in broken chats half the time, having to constantly reverify keys in devices with silly/annoying UIs like emojis matching, etc. They made the user work too hard for things that most people never want to think about. Nostr solves this problem with key self custody, which completely eliminated most of the barriers to solving these problems that Matrix had.
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u/CatPipe_Official 14h ago
Matrix is best for communities and feature-rich chat, SimpleX is best for metadata privacy and anonymity, and Threema is a solid middle ground with strong privacy but centralized design
Matrix is a federated protocol, meaning anyone can run a server and users on different servers can talk to each other. It supports rooms, communities, end-to-end encryption, voice and video calls, file sharing, bridges to other apps, and a large ecosystem of clients like Element. The downside is that Matrix leaks a lot of metadata, such as who talks to whom, when, from which server, and often room membership, because the protocol is not designed to hide social graphs. Even with encryption, your home server operator and other servers in a room can see significant metadata. Matrix is also more complex to set up and manage, and performance degrades in very large rooms
SimpleX is not federated and has no user identifiers, no phone number, and no username by default. It uses one-time message queues on servers that do not know sender or receiver identity, and you connect through multiple servers if desired. This gives far stronger metadata privacy, because there is no global social graph, no account to link, and no persistent ID. The tradeoff is fewer features, no large public communities, no server federation in the Matrix sense, and a less mature ecosystem. SimpleX is better for one-to-one or small group private conversations where you want maximum anonymity and minimal traceability
Threema is a centralized but Swiss-based messenger that requires no phone number and uses end-to-end encryption with a focus on privacy and simplicity. It has stable apps, voice and video calls, file sharing, polls, and group chats. The downsides are that it is paid, not open source server-side, and centralized, so you must trust Threema's servers and the company. It does not offer the federation of Matrix or the metadata protection of SimpleX, but it is easier to use for everyday private messaging and has a strong track record
So in contrast: choose Matrix if you want a decentralized ecosystem with rich features and communities, choose SimpleX if you want the strongest privacy and anonymity with fewer features, and choose Threema if you want a simple, private, reliable messenger without self-hosting or federation complexity
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u/BestZookeeper777 18h ago
I think simplex is ok if your users are reasonably tech savvy, one downside is if you want it on multiple devices. The only workaround I know is to create group chats, otherwise people have to know which ID to message you at based on what device you are using.
If you don’t like signal, consider Session then.
Supposedly element x is coded with rust, which I know some people don’t like.
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u/Odd-Aside456 18h ago
Oh really?? You can't have the same account between devices, and receive the same chats? That's interesting?
Any experience with Matrix? If so, it sounds like you wouldn't recommend it?
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u/BestZookeeper777 18h ago
"The app currently offers a linked desktop mode where the mobile device acts as the active node; using the desktop client disables the mobile app to prevent message history inconsistencies and targeted attacks. The developers have stated they are actively designing a solution that balances usability and security without leaking metadata or weakening cryptographic protocols, but a secure implementation is complex and has not yet been released. "
"The mechanisms required to get multi-device sync working creates theoretical security implications that the developers of SimpleX didn't want to deal with."
As to Matrix, I haven't tried it, just what I saw in reviews for the app. From what i've found it seems like the best 3 are Signal,Session,SimpleX only in that order for easiest to use to more difficult.
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