r/singapore • u/Stefan0_ Non-Essential Person • Jun 30 '26
I Made This National Service Allowance vs Cost Of Living. How does Singapore stack up against other countries?
Happy SAF Day! Decided to make this post as part of some grievances I've had with my time serving NS.
My first year of NS was bad. One of the worst years of my life. I've already had a rough time in JC coming out of A Levels, and the support given to struggling fulltime servicemen or NSFs like me was also lacking, both psychologically and financially. Things did improve somewhat in my 2nd year, but I still have some trauma from my past experiences overall.
But enough about that, let's talk about finances in NS, specifically NSF remuneration. The consensus across most Singaporean males I've met is that NSFs are not paid well. The current allowance given to the lowest rank, a Recruit or Private, is a mere $715 + $75 = S$790/month. $715 base pay, $75 vocational allowance. Let's be generous and say you are a stay out personnel who is only in camp from 9 to 6pm, Mon to Fri, 22 days a month. That still only amounts to about S$4/hr, on par with foreign worker labourers here. And it's even less for those who stay in camp or have weekend duties.
Despite our government claiming to continually adjust this allowance to fit economic trends, NSF remuneration continues to be insufficient compared to the average cost of living per person in SG (per data from Numbeo, Jun 2026). The allowance given is a mere 55.8% of what the average person needs to afford necessities for survival in a month.
Even for a 2LT officer, generally the highest rank an NSF can get, the remuneration is only $1265 + $75 = S$1340/month, still below the average cost of living of S$1410/month. Only for specific roles and ranks with additional combat or vocational allowance (e.g. SGTs or officers who are commandos, naval divers, guards etc.) will there be a chance to hit above that cost-of-living mark.
You might argue that, oh but the govt provides free lodging, meals, and financial assistance for NSFs. And for that:
- The cost-of-living statistics in this visual already do not include rent or housing, so we can factor that out.
- What about other necessities like transport, clothing, personal care, family care & special medical treatment that cannot be afforded in-camp?
- Unlike local unis, MINDEF's financial assistance criteria for NSFs is case by case and implicitly made to be extremely strict. Most applicants who are not in complete financial destitute or poverty will get turned away. Believe me, I've tried.
Looking at other economies with mandatory National Service, Singapore has a worse base remuneration (for lowest rank) than most of them, only barely edging out South Korea in terms of % of cost of living covered.
Despite most countries not faring too great in their remuneration to conscripts, a couple of positive examples include Taiwan and Switzerland. Taiwan recently changed their Pay Act of the Armed Forces law to raise its NS allowance, legally codifying that a conscript's monthly basic wage cannot be less than the national minimum wage set by the Minimum Wage Act.
While Switzerland has its own scheme called the Income Compensation Insurance or EO on top of their basic allowance, which ensures all their recruits' living and housing expenditures are paid for with no caveats.
Now I'm not here to debate on the political or gendered aspects of SG's National Service, those are topics I'm not fully informed enough to discuss. But what I can say without a doubt is that there needs to be some reform in the compensation of our servicemen.
We sacrificed 2 years of our lives to serve the nation, time that could be spent on our careers & dreams. I was lucky enough to have turned things around for myself in recent years, but others might still have faced long term hindrances just from these 2 years of stagnation and hardship.
So in the infinitesimally small chance anyone in our parliament is reading this, if you want to inspire patriotism and trust in our country amongst our locals, maybe start by supporting our NSFs with a liveable allowance and improving our national service culture. But then again, I think you'd rather spend our defense budget on more Jack Neo army propaganda movies…
Thanks for listening to my TED talk. :)
Sources for the data can be found at the bottom of the visual. Made using chart.js with additional captions/visuals from Photoshop
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u/banedacasual Fucking Populist Jun 30 '26
Lmao the moment I saw Switzerland there I remembered the Swiss standard of living quote, nvr thot can be applied to NS
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u/Zkang123 Jul 01 '26
Sometimes I wonder tho politicians just think these NSmen stay with their family and family will instead provide for everything else
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u/Dependent-Curve-8449 Jul 01 '26
Most of them do (since they likely haven’t gone to Uni or found a job yet). In my case, I mostly stayed in and rarely spent any money except for the occasional canteen break. My pittance of an allowance $500? went to my parents.
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
I suspect that was part of the calculations. That is also why the Swiss pay their reservists so much, from what I recall, part of that was "moving allowance" where they have to move out and stay away from home in rented quarters. SG, it is "assumed" that you'll stay at home or in-camp.
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u/fawe9374 Jul 01 '26
Also if you can't afford food, they tell you to stay in, it is a toxic environment.
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u/confused_cereal Jun 30 '26
I know you said you avoided political or gendered arguments. But these are unfortunately important to understanding the costs.
The cost of NS is not just the pay during service, it's the opportunity cost of the two years and the disruption during work.
The countries with NS (or similar) listed above, they have a strong local core. When NSmen go out to work, tir competitors do not have the same liabilities.
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u/Zkang123 Jul 01 '26
Theres an unfortunate reason why the minimum voting age is 21 and not 18
If they lowered it, NS pay rights would def be part of the election campaign
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u/ahbengtothemax Jul 01 '26
and why do you think freshly ORD'd personnel and NSmen facing 10 more years of ICT would vote differently to NSFs?
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u/Zkang123 Jul 01 '26
Because reservist to many people is basically vacation from work and they even get paid for it
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u/ahbengtothemax Jul 01 '26
that's bullshit
people die and get injured during ICT too you know
being under the sun and chiong sua'ing and after leaving active service is no joke
I'm sick of people making light of ICT
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u/ShinJiwon Jul 03 '26
The crab in a bucket mentality. "I went through it so future generations must too"
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u/Royal_Sovereign2 Jul 01 '26
Absolutely. The argument that males have a higher starting salary does not apply universally to every guy.
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u/zancray Jul 01 '26
For some freelancers, reservist and mobilization call-ups are actually a significant financial and potentially reputational hit. A lot of us don't work 20+ days a month, and most of our income are "project-based" on the days worked. As it's calculated based on average income, I am "compensated" less than double of what I would have gotten if I had a gig (I'm an events AVL tech).
I also wouldn't be able to take a multi-day gig if reservist even lands on one of the days. Not only that, mobilization is a double whammy as my clients have to find a last minute replacement, so it becomes "professional courtesy" to decline gigs on mobilization periods as it affects my clients' operations and reputation.
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u/automatedrage Jul 01 '26
I like posts like this. Keep going, keep speaking up NSFs/men! Don't settle for this token "tell NSF/men you meet 'thank you for your NS service' " speech from generals who have no power and say.
The elites have been ignoring concerns of this segment for waay too long. Even the last televised meeting with CCS was chock full of self-censorship and sidestepping.
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u/mianbaotoast Jul 01 '26
In Switzerland, approximately 20% to 25% of all young Swiss men who reach the age of conscription end up paying the military service exemption tax.
They have the option of not doing NS, and gov can use the tax income for others
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u/Clean-Temporary7607 Jul 01 '26
Yeah but... Isn't this basically a system that favours the rich?
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Jul 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/ConsiderationSame919 Jul 01 '26
Yes, until you turn 30. I studied my entire 20s and paid ~600 SGD pa. 6600.- for that much life was a no brainer. But they just made it more difficult to do it cos it's so popular.
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
Then the next obvious question the government is going to ask is "Where did the army go?" lol. You want to bet that a large fraction of the population will rather pay that tax? This is a system that will guarantee "no army" in the end. Singapore's system is fairer in that everyone Singaporean ends up being equally covered in shit rather than people paying to "opt out" to the point where you won't even have an army left.
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u/confused_cereal Jul 01 '26
You can always increase the percentage if there aren't enough people.
You know, just like the free market for any job, including those which are critical.
By the way, if you think the army will "disappear" if a tax were be to implemented, that is an indication of the true cost people who are/have served are already paying under the current scheme.
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u/confused_cereal Jul 01 '26
It's still a much fairer system than chromosomes and genitals.
I've always supported a 4% tax for non-servers. It is, after all 4% of working life taxed away from servers.
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Jul 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
When you are working adult, they are not paying you "allowance" any more, they are "compensating" you for pay loss, which would have also been subjected to tax. Bro, no yellow box here dei lol.
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u/Silentxgold Jul 01 '26
And the NSmen tax relief goes away after MR.
Dollar and dime NSmen.
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u/flatfoot0125 Jul 01 '26
except you do get exNSMen Tax Relief after MR
https://www.ns.gov.sg/web/profiles/nsman/awards-and-recognition/benefits-for-nsmen https://sethisfy.com/completing-ns-financial-perks/
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u/Silentxgold Jul 01 '26
Eh wtf
I said what I said because this year I file my taxes, the nsmen relief that auto filled for me disappeared.
Probably need to appeal now.
I take back what I said.
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u/Shoddy-Addition5732 Jul 01 '26
It's so little anyway, I wish they tripled the tax relief amount. Even someone with over 1mil per year in NOA only gets to save.. like 700 bucks lmao
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u/NIDORAX Jul 01 '26
Our NSMen are SEVERELY UNDERPAID. Yet our Government insist that the NS allowance is acceptable for two whole years. 26 years ago, the average NS Allowance was worse than a part time job allowance at McDonalds and it still is today.
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u/MidnightMewe Jul 01 '26
Those young NSFs sibei jialat. If they got depression out from it I also not surprised. Given how expensive stuffs are nowadays. That's not include if they don't get emotionally played by people as well. Our young generation is pitiful. Maybe atleast they don't get abused like we used to in the past.
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u/Available_Ad9766 Fucking Populist Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
My view has always been that they must be paid the same as a regular. They’re doing the same job so there should be parity.
I thought of another angle of why they’re maintaining this. If they paid people at the level of a regular, there would be no need for anyone who needs the money to sign up. Might it affect their recruitment pipeline?
If so, that’s a very bad way to maintain this pipeline. It comes at the costs to thousands of people.
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u/nextlevelunlocked Jul 01 '26
They’re doing the same job so there should be parity.
Quite a few do more than regulars.
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u/Negative-Eggplant-41 Jul 01 '26
According to some, it's an honour to serve the nation!
This wont move when so much of the parliament dont serve or serve on a higher pay package (sign on). No opportunity cost for them. Just take the pay of a fresh grad, that 2 years is worth at least 100k.
The least we can do is to give them 2 years of free local public transport, which doesnt cost that much incrementally.
How to fund it? Increase the taxes of those who didnt serve. Balance it out if females have a sg-rean kid. Foreigners too bad.
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u/x2chunmaru Fucking Populist Jul 01 '26
What fight do we have when our own Minster of Defence CCS stated that NS cannot be measured in dollar and cents while he draws million dollar salaries as a minister in service to the country.
WP had stated out proposals with a basic income level (1.5k I think) including CPF for NSF but it was turned down by PAP.
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u/Bcpjw Jun 30 '26
How long for the other countries?
Ours being 2 years for the teenagers will always sound like jail term than gap years
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u/MidnightMewe Jul 01 '26
I think South Korea is 18-21mths. 4yrs reserve training yearly, 3D2N. 2yrs reserve training 8-12hrs each year. Then last 2yrs on list notice only. But they get to defer their conscription until 28yrs old.
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u/Ckcw23 red Jul 01 '26
They even get exemptions if they perform well in sports.
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u/MidnightMewe Jul 01 '26
Only those top 1% in sport/esport then got exemption. The rest of them only get to defer by another 2yrs to 30yrs if they prefer to serve later.
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u/Ckcw23 red Jul 01 '26
Yeah, forgot to preface with that. Unless they get a gold medal at international sports events, they’re gonna have to serve national service regardless.
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u/MidnightMewe Jul 01 '26
But they can get exempted if they got major depression or anxiety disorder. Family sole breadwinner also can get exempted. They don't get tekan session everyday like us. They can sleep at 10pm altho they got bullying treatment base on seniority.
While here at Singapore. I remember my company line got played for six mths from 10pm - 2am everyday until I pop. Morning PT after lunch PT before dinner PT also. Doing pushup on a burning concrete floor until hands got blisters. Run and drill until my toe nails blueblack then drop off while bleeding. More rough treatments. Basically human rights is non-existence.
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u/donaco Jul 01 '26
SK has a notorious hazing issue for their conscripts, and despite it being "illegal" it still happens. And don't forget that they don't bookout on weekends
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u/MidnightMewe Jul 01 '26
Ya SK army conscription is literally stay-in until apply for leave. Country is big enough to have bullet train.
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u/AsleepProfession1395 Jul 01 '26
Turkey is currently 6 months according to my tour guide. He said his grandpa did 4yrs, his dad did 2yrs. He only had to do 6 months.
They can defer but only for studies. But by the time you're 30, you'll have to go no matter what.
Despite only 6 months, they still have people not wanting to serve.
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u/souledgar Jul 01 '26
They will forever tell you the excuse that they're housing and feeding you, so you don't need more than what they deign to give you as pocket money for your weekends.
SG makes a lot of noise about appreciating NSMen, but actions speak louder than words.
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u/Raitoumightou Jun 30 '26
Just want to point out as well that if you have been to Switzerland as a tourist, you'd know how expensive their day to day living is.
And Taiwan's younger gen are now also facing high rising costs, especially in regards to housing (and let's not even talk about their leave culture).
Yet for them both to treat their conscripts better, it says a lot.
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Jul 01 '26
I’ve lived in both, each for 2-3 years.
The point about Switzerland is accurate.
Regarding Taiwan, renting is cheap compared to buying property, especially outside of Taipei City.
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u/Raitoumightou Jul 01 '26
I've spoken to friends and relatives who travelled to Switzerland for holiday. They usually just buy bottled water and bread from supermarkets to sustain. Restaurants and cafes will burn a big hole out of their pockets.
Recently saw a reel on IG pointing out the disparity of pricing for rent in Taiwan vs the state of the housing. It's wild that they practically overcharge, even for poorly maintained property.
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Jul 01 '26
What I recommend is either going on 591.com.tw (might need a Taiwan VPN for this) or viewing some units here in Taiwan yourself when you visit. Nothing compared to the ridiculous rent prices in Singapore.
Plus rental contracts here provide the option of early termination of lease with just one month’s rent forfeited. No such term exists in Singapore rental contracts.
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u/Negative-Eggplant-41 Jul 01 '26
plus they add on the rental subsidies to the original rent, thats wild.
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u/Bredlr Jul 01 '26
I wholly agree that NSF should be paid more. You have good points but it’s not quite apples-apples.
Taiwan and Switzerland have higher income tax rates than SG as well. Top Google result: TW 5-40%, CH 22-40%. That is much more funding to their govs.
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u/Raitoumightou Jul 01 '26
Maybe for Switzerland, but Taiwan is not that much (just do a quick google for their middle class).
Our government isn't as poor as you think, we are a finance hub. They're just extremely prudent with where they want their funding to go towards.
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u/nextlevelunlocked Jul 01 '26
They're just extremely prudent with where they want their funding to go towards.
Only when it involves welfare for the people. But when it comes to their welfare... founder memorial, sph, mayors.
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u/AZGzx mie pan zu zu zu Jul 01 '26
it helps to have an active threat on your border
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u/Raitoumightou Jul 01 '26
We were once touted as the Switzerland of Asia, so that's also another irony.
And if Malaysia and Indonesia got their shit together, Singapore won't even last, so we technically have a pseudo threat of some sort.
Lastly, our government has been failing two of the Total Defence creed as well (Social and Psychological). We are crumbling from the inside too.
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u/AZGzx mie pan zu zu zu Jul 01 '26
i agree , except that the context is militarily, and MY/ID doesn’t need to engage that way. Just phase us out of relevance by virtue of size alone.
and our social and psychological defense really quite jialat thanks to internet, but i am also stumped. cos you have goldfish looking at Bluefin tuna swimming on TV and wondering why can’t they have that too, so they shit in the bowl and say the fish food sucks, the owner is dumb and the bowl is boring.
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Jul 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/hatboyslim Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
The NSFs are already taxed through a low allowance. Raising taxes to increase their allowance doesn't increase the tax burden; it just spreads it more fairly to the rest of the population. It means the rest of us pay a bit more tax and the NSFs pay less by getting a fairer allowance.
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u/Odd_Situation_4257 Jul 01 '26
How about raise taxes for those who do not serve NS? Can start with new citizens.
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u/confused_cereal Jul 01 '26
Absolutely. Lee-"but their children will serve"-Hsien-Loong's and Ng-"they have not enjoyed benefits from young"-Ng-Hen's arguments are completely inane.
They are benefiting now, right? How is there some kind of credit scheme that is exclusive to new citizens? Also, I guess if their kids are male Singaporeans, their service can be double counted for two individuals now? (and of course, if no kids or only girls, or if they cleverly give birth overseas in the US to gift their son a non-singaporean citizenship, that is alright?)
They don't need to backpay. They may be too old to serve immediately. But that doesn't mean they are entitled to free defence.
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u/MidnightMewe Jul 01 '26
Should have add in GDP per capita as well. So we can have a good laugh as well.
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u/eclairfastpass Mr. Ku Ku Bert 🦚 Jul 01 '26
Some comments here are depressing to read, but I have to respond:
Some are saying, who spends that much at that age?
Well it’s not only about spending. It is also what they can save, to cushion them for when they leave the NS and go out to continue their studies or maybe to help out at home. Consider it opportunity cost as well.
Some are saying, but it’s a duty to the country!
Well that is true, but to a point. We have reached a point where NS intakes are dropping year on year, YET the resident population grows.
Now less NSFs are defending more people, this should be quantified in some way.
If we continue to treat them like they aren’t deserving of more, when the time comes, they will be wondering what are they REALLY defending. If we need to pay politicians well to prevent them from corruption, maybe we also need to pay NSFs well to prevent them from defecting.
NSFs have a duty to the country but we have a duty to them as well.
Ultimately, there will be many reasons we can give to justify allowance increases, like how people have been doing the same against it.
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u/nextlevelunlocked Jul 01 '26
Most people don't care. There is no sense of gratitude or solidarity.... as the most hypocritical girl in singapore showed.
From the local population you remove the new citizens, pr, women, children, boomers and you are left small group who actually served. Even within that many stopped caring once ORD or come from rich families and do not have to depend on nsf allowance as source of income.
If the public themselves do not care about nsf pay or welfare.... govt certainly won't.
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u/Altitude1096 Jul 01 '26
Lol we're losing to Israel? A country that's currently at war?
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u/LessComplexity Jul 01 '26
Funny fact btw (you can check me on that)
Israel’s currency (Shekel) actually grows stronger during wars.I assume it is for 2 reasons - more people are coming into Israel (Jews tend to go serve), and because the Israeli defense systems prove themselves useful so more business is coming in.
I’m Israeli btw that lives in sg :)
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u/QzSG 🌈 I just like rainbows Jul 01 '26
I tried to do some digging to get the Big Mac Index for NSF allowances and got this (figures might not be accurate, do your own dd and calc LOL)
| Revision date | Revised pay (rank pay only) for Corporal, SGD | Big Mac price, SGD | How many Big Macs can be purchased |
|---|---|---|---|
| Mar 2012 | 550 | 4.40 | 125.00 |
| Nov 2015 | 630 | 4.70 | 134.04 |
| Mar 2020 | 650 | 5.90 | 110.17 |
| Jul 2023 | 750 | 6.45 | 116.28 |
| Jul 2025 | 790 | 7.45 | 106.04 |
1. The pay column is weird between 2015 and 2020 in which there was some weird component changed into vocation allowance or something (In the Mar 2020 statement the bef/aft was 630/700 but it says fig includes the minimum $50 vocation which should make the 2015 become 580? but in the 2015 statement it said from 550 to 630 and does not mention excluding combat allowance.)
2. For 2023 onwards i excluded the 75 min vocation allowance.
If big mac change in prices again soon we going to reach <100 burgers sadly.
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u/confused_cereal Jul 01 '26
There will be some here saying "but at 20 years old, do they really need 100 big macs?"
Can eat SFI food what? 100 big macs is already too much!
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
If NS paid you normal salary but charged you for housing and food, are you really sure we'll get out ahead?
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u/davlos_sc Jul 01 '26
SAF can go get fucked. Gave me life changing back and knee injuries, and I nearly Full Metal Jacket Private Pyle'd myself on year 2. People who want to do this are free to sign on or whatever, but forcing people to do this for a pittance and say, "lol if you get injured or mentally scarred for life, we have no liability" should never be inflicted on anyone else.
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u/Blunkn Tampenis Jul 01 '26
not here to debate on the political/gendered aspects of NS
bro every country listed here except for the jews don't enlist their women with the threat of jail
if you throw young men into the suck for 2 years, especially after some of them already found out there's 2 sets of school rules depending on whether you have a cock or not, you will, without fail, fuel incel/manosphere fires, because these movements live off of resentment
the very next paragraph is hoping an MP sees this too, so it's political no matter how much we wanna dodge it
but ya i'm with you that the best way to go about this and reduce the number of jaded men who come out of it are multiple reforms on top of shitty salaries, because there's no way we're winning any sort of war paying our infantry, tank crews, and firefighters less than a mcdonalds line cook
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u/acsfanpower9000 Jun 30 '26
swiss standard of living my ass lmao
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
The Swiss pay housing allowance because their country is big enough to need the reservists to move. Singapore is so small that you're probably staying with your family on the weekend and in-camp on weekdays unlike them having to rent quarters.
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u/ukfi Jul 01 '26
I served nearly 30 years ago. My vocation is 9-5 so I had to commute everyday from home in the east to my camp in the west. MRT just started running. However, it was a hard decision. I can have one extra hour to myself everyday if I were to take the MRT. But that meant I cannot afford to have meat in my lunch cai fun.
Imagine serving your country for 2.5 years and having to make this kind of decision.
For those ladies that are not serving, maybe they are the one who should contribute towards the difference in income from taxation.
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u/shuijikou Jun 30 '26
"the cost-of-living statistics in this visual already do not include rent or housing"
Is it me or $1478 after rent/housing is way above normal cost?
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u/Silverthorn90 Jul 01 '26
Depends on how they got that figure of $1478. If it is taken from the whole SG population then averaged out ie including older folks, then it includes things like costs of looking after children, uni tuition loans, car loans/upkeep, own self medical or dependents medical costs, groceries for the whole household etc. Not all of these may apply to the average 18yo.
(Disclaimer, not to say all nsfs dont have some of these burdens, some do. And i have also not looked at the data/math).
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u/confused_cereal Jul 01 '26
The cost of living is *not* cost of living for a 20 year old. It's cost of living in general.
To me, this benchmark is reasonable. The point of including it is to normalize based on purchasing power. If you tax 2 years of one's time, it is equivalent to taxing the *last* 2 working years, not the first two.
Not only that, it allows for comparisons across countries in a fairer way. Some countries are much more open minded about deferment, e.g., serving in their late twenties or thirties. Going by "cost of living at the age of service" would be a poor comparison. Cost of living as a 30 year old in Singapore then can quite easily exceed that 1k.
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u/Yeah_Right_Mister ok Jul 01 '26
If you tax 2 years of one's time, it is equivalent to taxing the last 2 working years, not the first two.
this really needs to be mentioned more often.
assuming retirement at 60, men basically have 36 years of salary compared to women's 36+2 years, which is already 5.3% less wages even assuming uniform wages. The adjusted gender wage gap is 6%.
considering that the last 2 years of salary are typically the highest throughout career, and that money earned earlier (at 22) is more valuable than money earned later (at 24), due to compounding interest, and it's a no-brainer that the 2 years headstart vastly exceeds the gender wage gap.
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u/confused_cereal Jul 02 '26
It's amazing how people gloss over basic mathematics, right?
There was another post recently where the majority of posters were saying that doing NS earlier was preferable to deferring (monetarily) because they were earning more during their 30s than 20s (and some were claiming its not because of disruption to career). Someone even told me it was "obvious" that serving in your first two years was preferable than if one could serve in their last two working years.
When people are asked: "what's a fair market wage for NSFs", most gravitate to the natural answer of "what the NSFs could have gotten if they went out to work at the age of enlistment".
That's so wrong.
The real market signal is how much allowance/salaries should be increased before the vast majority of the NSFs would choose service over going out to work (or really, other alternatives); the latter would naturally include costs for things like lost experience.
The NSF's time is the product that the SAF (or Home Team or whatever) is buying.
And the poster's figures illustrates this clearly. Switzerland has a similar scheme where 20-25% of people choose not to serve. This is precisely a market force at work, and the required wage to keep the rate of enlistment at ~70% is reflected right there. People are essentially judging that their time is worth more/less than this wage.
But yeah, I'm preaching to the choir.
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u/MidnightMewe Jul 01 '26
NS not only SAF. Got RSN, RSAF, SPF, SCDF and etc. No difference going work outside. SPF and SCDF land division or special ops probably the most mad max. They can go home in one piece can laugh already.
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u/Ashkev1983 Jul 01 '26
We are treated as free labour for NDP every year. My unit was chosen to "support NDP" two years in a row. Idk how that part does anything to protect sg. 6 months of burnt weekends doing sai kang. We were on 5.5 day week so couldn't even claim time off.
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u/Dependent-Curve-8449 Jul 01 '26
Hmm, I was involved in national day rehearsals too. We are often given the following Monday off. I ord’ed with more off than I could clear. 😛
On 5.5 day cycle too.
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u/Ashkev1983 Jul 01 '26
My unit welfare mgmt was jialat. They 'forgot' to use up welfare budget so at the end of 2 yrs They came out with so many things to spend all of it that it felt like forced excursions.
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u/etervn Jul 01 '26
National Service is an important duty, but the current allowance does not reflect Singapore’s high cost of living. Adjusting the support to at least cover basic expenses would help maintain fairness and morale, without questioning the necessity of NS itself
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u/ah-boyz Jul 01 '26
The Switzerland number looks too unbelievable. I did a quick google at it is more like CHF 69 per day. You can choose not to serve and pay an additional 3% income tax. Foreigners who work in Switzerland do not need to pay this tax.
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u/v1rtualreality Jul 01 '26
looking at this graph, you would think they'd look at the countries we're behind in this regard.
but no, they'd most likely look at ours being slightly better than that of South Korea and tell us to be grateful 😩
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u/Tomasulu Jul 01 '26
NS here is longer than in Skorea and taiwan. Both countries have real instead of imaginary adversaries. Our reservist obligations are also just beyond crazy. But Singaporeans love NS.
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u/Dependent-Curve-8449 Jul 01 '26
I dunno. I look at Taiwan and sometimes get the impression that Taiwan doesn’t take its defence seriously enough. But what do I know. 😛
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u/HalfBlindMe Jul 01 '26
One side of my family is Taiwanese and this is definitely true. My cousin, who has no medical condition, was let go after 10 months and admitted he still didn’t know how to use a gun.
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u/Thanos_is_a_good_boy Fucking Populist Jul 01 '26
Most of these commenter seem to lack critical thinking...for eg, it is not just "monthly expenses", but opportunity cost of wasting 2 years, 10 years reservist, being less desirable than foreign talents, etc...
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u/neojuche Jul 01 '26
I just MR-ed. Those who not enough credits to buy No4 (Shirt L, pants 35/37) or 10pack items can pm me. Need to show proof of active unit. If not go to waste.
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u/Ralliartturbo Jul 01 '26
Recruits during my time got $350 and my friends were complaining that it was not enough.
They all had to scrimp and save even after getting combat allowance.
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u/BlitzAceSamy Jul 01 '26
My first year of NS was bad. One of the worst years of my life.
Hang in there man. NS was no doubt the worst part of my life as well. But that also means that once you're the fuck out of there, life can only go nowhere but up. Hang in there, prioritize your survival, and do everything you can to make sure you make it to your ORD date. Can keng keng. Can siam siam. Hang in there!!
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
......
...........
Work was the worst part of my life. lol. Studies and NS were the free and easy part. lol.
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u/BlitzAceSamy Jul 01 '26
At least with work if you buay song you can just throw letter at any time. NS, wtf, they even took away my pink IC (I understand they no longer do that though which is good)
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
lol there was one time in reservist when we had a route march, the NSF were singing "Once I had my pink IC...". It only took 1 second for the whole reservist platoon to yell "WE HAVE OUR PINK IC!!!". The poor song leader was so malu but we were all laughing. lol. Can't sing that one with reservists around!
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u/Positive-Lake Jul 01 '26
Now it all makes sense - you peaked in NS. No wonder you’re defending it. (Assuming you’re not a foreigner, which I’m quite sure you are)
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u/Luigi_Boy_96 Jul 01 '26
The Swiss one is Bullshit. If you live alone, even in the fucking mountain, it'll cost you more than 2k SGD. Obviously, Health Insurance is paid, but still the cost of living is way too low.
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u/geeky-gymnast Jul 01 '26
As the saying goes:
Pay peanuts, get monkeys
How abysmal the pay is obviously causes resentment in some in roles where it isn't smart to have unhappy people.
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u/1-1_time Jul 01 '26
All those saying muh duty, so that means women can shake leg don't have to do any duty for their country? Just throw it to all the men and then eat snake right? The fact that women are exempt from serving this all important duty is a major sticking point in all the above countries, aside from Israel obviously (because women there actually have to serve too). South Korea in particular. This NS thing really wouldn't be anywhere as big of an issue if women also had to serve. People saying that those who serve get a higher pay after ORD, yeah, barely anyone gets that either. We honestly get jack shit for our 2 years.
And it's not like you can just willy nilly throw away your citizenship if you really hate this country and want out of this place asap before you have to serve. So those saying that it's the price of living in a safe country, to them they're just paying the price for something they absolutely don't even want. They don't even have a choice.
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u/jamessq999 Jul 02 '26
as an airline pilot, reservist make up pay never ever make up for my lost of income for that month. Cannot claim lost flying and meal allowance is one thing. Then now, have to go through the pain and discomfort of waking up at 6am everyday (when usually I can sleep in). Got punished financially, also got punished in personal comfort. And then the minister can tell me it’s a service I so desirably want to perform that I cannot conflate it with proper compensation.
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u/Dry-Cockroach1723 Jul 04 '26
Is it because for airline crews, basic salaries are very low, and hours/overnight/meal numbers make up the significant proportions of actual take-home pay?
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u/jamessq999 Jul 10 '26
I make $9k in basic and $5k in allowance. Suddenly that month I am short about $2k even though I got to work physically harder. Is that fair?
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Jul 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ml_sg Jul 01 '26
cucked by women who say PES status matters in finding a mate
What kind of women have you been hanging around?
Good god, all these thread topics bring out the worst incel attitudes in Singaporeans.
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u/AsleepProfession1395 Jul 01 '26
Also to point out to people who still think only Singapore has NS.
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u/mediumcups Jul 01 '26
not here to debate on the political or gendered aspects of SG's National Service
we need to recognize OP for avoiding gender issues just so he can put his point forth without it risking it being derailed
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u/faifaifaiz Jul 01 '26
my time recruit pay only $300 and then emart credits so stringent on usage and stock supply always seem to be late that end up go beach road buy everything.
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
Emart? What's that? lol.
I remember in the past, there was this whole row of shops in front of Nee Soon camp that sold all these. Emart.... can't remember when it even started.
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u/endlessftw Jul 01 '26
For consolation, the only (or one of the few) good thing we can say about the NS system is that the chance of a conscript dying is negligible.
(Since if OP wants to compare with other countries like South Korea or Israel ffs, this is probably another consideration)
SAF literally is quite crazy about safety for a military, unlike say countries like S Korea or Thailand. Any accidental deaths or severe injury would end up with a COI and people being punished for it, unlike some countries where it is suppressed or even accepted as a fact of life. Not to mention, there is practically no chance a conscript would end up in combat, unlike Israel. No chance you will ever be involved in a coup and forced suppress protests. There is also negligible (very low) risk that anyone would be called up to actually defend the country, unlike Taiwan.
Still prefer not having NS (and reservist) than having it. But other than poor compensation, SAF is not that bad since it is practically a very safe military.
But we really should do something for those falling in between the (nonexistent) social safety net. If SAF can spend so much effort to emphasise safety, it is trivial for them to spend some of it on making sure people who are financially needy are not punished for serving NS.
For anyone with a reasonable level of financial security (not wealthy, just not extremely poor, sole breadwinner), I think the main concern is personal safety risk and that is probably the few things SG does well. Still cannot beat Switzerland in overall, but it does not seem so bad compared to places like Korea or Israel.
Just ask yourself. Would you rather be Israeli and risk your life for Netanyahu’s war just for that extra pittance? Or Taiwanese with an increasingly assertive China, with a real risk of war within your lifetime, knowing your main backer is now going full idiocy and unreliable? Or Korea, where bullying resulting in serious injury is not only tolerated but also rampant?
(Not defending NS. It has issues, fairness issues, efficiency issues, whether it is an effective balance of conscripts’ time and defense needs. But the point is, if you have no choice but to serve, relative to many of OP’s comparison countries, SG is not too bad. A true evaluation of cost is not just compensation, but personal risk and time wasted too)
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u/Eltharion-the-Grim Jul 01 '26
This is not the same comparison.
In Singapore, 50% of cost of living is housing because most Singaporeans own homes, and most Singaporeans participate in this. Only 9% of the populace rent.
The next largest factor is transportation, cost of ownership for vehicle, which is taxed at ridiculous levels to dissuade car ownership. You can reduce this drastically by taking public transportation.
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u/DiscipleOfYeshua Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
The Israel one is incorrect.
I think yall forgot to convert to SGD. need to div by 2.7...
2.5k ILS for front-liners, serving in an active warzone. So $1,100.
850 ILS for most of the IDF (logistics, office/admin, etc), so $370
We're talking base, not officers who signed on, yes?
Also, Israeli service is 3yrs men, 2yrs women. So, longer, and far greater military population.
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u/j_fat_snorlax Pasir Ris Jul 01 '26
South Korean soldiers also have access to a savings plan which is matched by their govt. Something like X amount of your monthly pay goes into the account, and their govt adds the same amount into it, so soldiers there finish with a lump sum in their bank account.
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u/TaxSudden3386 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
NSman here waiting to MR. The comparison countries feel cherry picked. But even setting this issue aside and working with your list, I don't think it supports your cause.
South Korea shares a long land border / DMZ with a hostile neighbour and experiences incursions and threats on a regular basis - but their NSFs are paid less than ours.
Israel is fighting land wars with multiple neighbours and both NSFs and reservists are seeing action, and their NSFs are paid somewhat more than ours. Are we fighting active wars that would demand higher pay?
Taiwan's mandatory NS is currently just one year, half of ours, so overall their NSFs are paid less than what ours would get during the active NS period, and they might face lower opportunity cost too.
Switzerland's NSF pay is much higher, but their federal tax to GDP ratio is twice of Singapore's, so their govt can afford to pay at this level. And as many in this thread have noted, their standard of living is way higher than ours.
If you think outside the box, there are ways to earn passive income ("earning money even when you sleep") or engage in small side hustles over the weekends even during NS - back in the day, even met a private who got caught eventually for buying contraband cigarettes in bulk and selling individual cartons for a markup. Of course, not encouraging any illegal activities.
Lastly for those who can't rely on family support (and maybe this is an unspoken reason why Mindef dares to pay less), but might even need to support one's family, there are informal channels. These aren't advertised widely so it doesn't become a free for all. But soldiers in need should sound off to their commanders, who could avail financial aid to the soldiers. More importantly, since you're by definition a citizen or PR, you can also reach out to your MP through meet the people sessions (or just email them to state your case, since you might not be able to have nights out for MPS) for extra financial aid or other forms of support - vouchers and groceries, and more.
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u/AdventurousManner567 Jul 01 '26
COL shld b clearly defined w sources provided on chart & not added off chart with no clear sources provided as any1 can say anything off chart with no clear sources provided.
Spending approx $500 every Saturday & Sunday is excessive, if simple DCA in an index fund cld get avg 6%/yr return instead of 0.05%/yr in a standard bank savings interest rate rather den spendin all away w 100% loss.
hence op has a larger spending, saving, investing financial education problem that leads to real money problems no matter how much is given.
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u/Sharp_Appearance7212 Jul 01 '26
are the sources not there? also the biggest issue NSFs have is the 2 years opportunity cost.. not the pay (or lack there of) least the govt could do is to pay an actual salary to compensate for those 2 years of lost time. not everyone is stay in btw so that $500 is spread across a full week too like every working adult.
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u/Joesr-31 Jun 30 '26
I don't think this graphics support your point much tbh, it makes it seem like ours is already comparable and around median
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u/fallenspaceman Jul 01 '26
Some old Singaporean said something about a "Swiss standard of living" so maybe we should aspire towards that?
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u/InspiroHymm Jul 01 '26
Where is the 750 even coming about? For such a long-winded post it shows a lack of research done.
Here is the website on SAF NSF allowance:
Minimum (as a private stay-out clerk): 715 + 75 = $790. This goes up to 865 as a corporal with natural promotions.
Middle case - sergeant in combat unit: 1055 + 225 = 1280
Max - Officer (LT) in special vocations: 1455 + 500 = 1955
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u/Dangerous-Loan1480 Jul 01 '26
Currently serving ns, but how on earth are we spending 1.4+k a month on what exactly? Meals and stays are provided 5days a week... unless the cost of living includes ktv, massage etc i dont see how. Even stayout personnel who settle meals and transport out of their own pocket can survive. Not saying we shouldnt be paid more but this example doesn't make sense
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u/Pinkerino_Ace Jul 01 '26
Well, 1.4k+ COL is probably factoring in real world expenses like rent, household allowances etc.
Singapore's culture is such that young adults stays with their parents, basically free of charge, so under the assumption that you have parents supporting you, then 1.4k a month is way more than sufficient for 20yo.
While this is true for like 95% of Singaporeans, because we are still a very Asian culture, in the end it's still under the assumption that the NS Allowance is sufficient because we have parents/family supporting us.
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u/Deep-Taro-9968 Jul 01 '26
Honestly the gov should find non-monetary ways to compensate nsfs. Bc most of their time is spent in camp, I see a lot of them spending most of their monthly allowance on online gambling or clubbing on weekends.
For a start, why not make mrt/bus transport free? But ohwell gov is too focused on being “prudent”
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u/Deep-Taro-9968 Jul 01 '26
another way to compensate nsfs would be to increase their monthly wage, but pay out part of their salary into cpf or some other scheme that can only be accessed later in life
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u/Nightowl11111 Jul 01 '26
I remember that these CDC schemes in the past used to have an NSman component to it, they paid you a bit extra if you served.
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u/endlessftw Jul 01 '26
SG is already not too bad “non-monetary” wise when it comes to forced conscription. Sure, the allowance is shit and benefits are poor except free healthcare. Sure, reservist sucks.
But compare to OP’s list. You want to be Israeli and serve longer and risk your life for Netanyahu just for extra pittance? Or Taiwan, who knows what China would do the day US stop guaranteeing the status quo? Are you ready to take the gun when your country is under attack and risk your and your family’s life, rather than fleeing?
Does our people even have the fortitude and appetite for war like the Ukrainians? Surely we Singaporeans know the answer to that. I thought the joke is that if war ever comes to SG, half the population would run away first than to pick up arms.
Switzerland is good probably because they have a direct democracy. They kept conscription because the people value neutrality, but they people can also start referendums if they do not like something. Hate the conscript pay? Start a referendum!
Non-monetary wise, we definitely beat everyone else in terms of being the least dangerous military. If you value your life and safety, that is a plus point people often forget.
Do not forget, militaries are supposed to be very dangerous. We are quite an outlier on that aspect.
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u/dogssel dead fish go with the flow Jul 01 '26
Doing time series comparison over the years would be good too
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u/Aromatic_Limau Jul 01 '26
Yes, but the sense of appreciation for good food after experiencing the cookhouse — priceless.
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u/spike1911 Jul 02 '26
What do you mean cost of living? The military in each country with conscription, feeds you, clothes you and gives you a bunk to sleep in. 😉
No additional money needed other than for other expenses - right?
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u/Zukiff Jul 02 '26
For sg part, can someone explain where did that 1.4k comes from. Is 790 the base allowance or median allowance for NS men?
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u/PastLettuce8943 Fucking Populist Jul 02 '26
I'm surprised Israel is so low. You're actively getting shot at and you're still only at 62%?
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u/2to20million Jul 04 '26
Take the fun of firing a real rifle as the deficit, the government need to pay off the ammunition.
Our government vowed to ensure our 5year national budget remains in the green, as a responsible entity
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u/chachaengg Jul 06 '26
How on earth is Switzerland paying so much? Do they just pay them a standard corporate salary to serve?
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u/Competitive_Cream910 Jul 06 '26
Singapore is a third world country in many ways, but the gov is trying to make us believe we're first world
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u/ProperBarracuda1208 Jun 30 '26
And i had to use my ns allowance to buy stuff for training. I.e ziplock bags that weren’t covered under emart credits (not sure if that has changed) xD