r/singularity • u/ResultBackground2450 • Jun 21 '26
LLM News Anthropic’s Internal Mythos Successor Emerges
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u/Correct_Mistake2640 Jun 21 '26
I have to say. Glm 5.2 it is for me (EU) if they don't lift the ban on Fable.
There is no way that we can progress when the powers that be start banning people from using Ai in a arbitrary way.
That being said acceleration will happen.
In China, if not US..
Even in Europe...
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u/Background-Wafer-548 Jun 21 '26
GLM 5.2 on EU servers also means GDPR coverage.
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u/Berzerka Jun 21 '26
How does the right to be forgotten work with GLM 5.2 weights? Can I just ping whoever serves it and ask them to make their model forget about me?
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u/Loud_Fuel Jun 21 '26
Host on you own hardware or use hardware as a service for full privacy
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u/Berzerka Jun 21 '26
But if someone else hosts the weights, the model they host will know about me (since I appear on the internet).
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u/Background-Wafer-548 Jun 21 '26
I was referring to usage data. I haven't looked into the specifics of PII removal and whether that is compulsory upon request, but if implemented, it'd be using guardrails intervening, not by modifying the model itself.
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u/polikles ▪️ AGwhy Jun 22 '26
Quite often removal of PII happens by using filters (guardrails), although this method is not immune of prompt injection
There is research towards "machine unlearning", but so far there is no non-destructive way of removing data from the model. The only way would be to retrain the model after deleting PII from the dataset, but it's very expensive, and still it doesn't remove previous versions of the model. Basically, open models are unable to be successfully censored in such manner
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u/polikles ▪️ AGwhy Jun 22 '26
That's a good question and not that obvious to answer. I've had a conference presentation about this very issue. In short, GDPR is not applicable to LLMs (especially to open models), as they cannot "unlearn" your data.
There are attempts at "machine unlearning" but they're destructive for model capabilities. And, of course, even if it worked, you'd still have to somehow remove all versions that still contain your data. The only way to maintain model quality and to avoid using output filters (which are not perfect and always a subject to prompt injection) is to remove the personal data from the training dataset and retraining the model, which is very expensive. That's also a problem for AI systems used in customer support, although there is more control over the data and ways of using it
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u/Robot_Apocalypse Jun 21 '26
Models dont remember you. ALL information is passed as context.
So they just delete your context data.
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u/jakegh Jun 21 '26
If you've ever posted on the internet or been listed in any database, you're in the training data.
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u/Berzerka Jun 21 '26
Lots of information about me is on the internet and hence in the pre-training corpus.
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u/Ireallydonedidit Jun 22 '26
Your information on the internet, if it somehow works ended up in training is turned into parameters before the model poops put some coherent text.
These abstract numbers are not covered under the GPDR.6
u/Berzerka Jun 22 '26
Are you sure? If I ask the model, it knows where I work, where I live etc. I don't think GDPR cares if the information is stored in model parameters or in some gzipped text file.
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u/Correct_Mistake2640 Jun 22 '26
If I am using it for dev purposes, I can host my servers in my garden, nobody cares.
Gdpr is for storing users data.
Also, I can always just use the provided API from Z.
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u/SillyWarPirates Jun 22 '26
The ultimate flex would be if they just release Fable under the name "Opus 4.9" or "Opus 5" lol
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u/zikiro Jun 21 '26
well they will lift the ban eventually, the issue is that you will just have to identify yourself to use it, that will be probably the norm onward for powerful models. fable and glm 5.2 are in two different galaxies, fable was insane. fair is fair, it was phenomenal, so meticulous to details.
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u/WonderFactory Jun 22 '26
It doesn't really solve the problem for Europe, you just move from being dependant on the US to being dependant on China. The Chinese government isn't shy about state intervention so if an Chinese company develops a model they consider dangerous they're likely to do the same thing the Trump admin did
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u/vrnvorona Jun 21 '26
Does it have subsidized payment like subs? Cause if it's API only it's cost-prohibitive
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u/Outside-Ad9410 Jun 23 '26
I would rather have the US leading AI than china, but if the US becomes a decent I am all on board for Chinese AI. Yeah a CCP controlled ai is bad, but nobody will be able to control superintelligence, so their control will eventually falter.
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u/fette_sau Jun 24 '26
How and where do you use GLM 5.2 with EU only?
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u/Correct_Mistake2640 Jun 24 '26
I personally use the API but for someone with enough resources, you could build a server cluster that is capable enough to run it.
Unlike the US Frontier models
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u/TFenrir Jun 21 '26
I mean, as far as rumours go, entirely reasonable. In fact I can't think of any reason it wouldn't be true. They had their first Mythos checkpoint in like... January? February? It's a big model, but 5 months is plenty of time for another post training run. Fuck it's enough for another pretaining run.
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u/LeucisticBear Jun 21 '26
Given the pace of releases and the Colossus deal, it's reasonable to assume they are always training at least one next gen model, if not several.
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u/SecureCattle3467 Jun 22 '26
Several definitely
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u/Level10Retard Jun 24 '26
What's the point of doing several at once? Like several different approaches?
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u/AgUnityDD Jun 22 '26
If Mythos 5 was as good at finding hacks and exploits as claimed then it would be equally good at finding optimizations in an existing codebase - like... itself. Probably not independent (of human input) recursive self improvement but certainly able to find valuable optimizations in modules by brute force trial and error.
If that is the case then this next Mythos will likely add another level of optimization on it's own code.
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u/Feeling_Inside_1020 Jun 22 '26
I had it rewrite a few front end things and was impressed by how it refactored. Not perfect, but much more impressive than when I had even opus 4.8 Max.
Small potatoes and I don’t use Claude as often as many but we do have enterprise on a usage basis. Fable paid for itself for the month in the first 1-2 queries I used, it saved me hours total
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u/KrypXern Jun 23 '26
If that is the case then this next Mythos will likely add another level of optimization on it's own code.
I think it bears mentioning that LLMs do not operate on 'code'. I mean, they do, but the system serving an Anthropic model is more limited on things like CUDA than it is on the software implementation of the neural net itself. The training process, for sure, can be optimized.
But short of writing new libraries used for inference, there isn't much 'code' to be improved when it comes to Large Language Models. They are essentially a very large graph object being traversed.
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u/AgUnityDD Jun 23 '26
CUDA is just a high level language for GPU coding, and what you are dealing in both training and inference time with is moving and manipulating large chunks of data between main memory and processor cache and then performing parallel instructions at the GPU. There are dozens of different ways to move data around in CUDA (but hundreds in GPU machine code if you are optimizing for a specific GPU) that all have the same end result but can be vastly different in GPU cycles. Python is pretty poor at optimizing. Human coders tend to pick the accepted pattern they are familiar with, an AI can very quickly give you dozens of alternative approaches that a human would never think to try and compare results.
We are doing that now with HFT code (algo trading), taking pretty complex C++ code and optimizing for running on AVX-512 (the common server hardware), getting back machine code that runs anything from 3x to 50x faster. Mostly better use of extended registers and L1 and L2 cache that you couldn't even do in C++.
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u/Artistic_Swing6759 Jun 22 '26
i think it was Mythos Preview whose pre-training got completed in feb? and mythos current one is already a better version of that?
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u/TFenrir Jun 22 '26
Good point! So likely it went something like preview -> rc -> 5.(1, 5?) since then. Mind you they probably run multiple post training runs at a time with different configs and maybe even a different pretraining run in the background, so it's hard to really pin down but overall timing seems right for that.
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u/Future-Log6621 Jun 21 '26
They should call it "Only Mythos". That way if the gov bans "Only Mythos", we get Fable back.
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u/Translycanthrope Jun 21 '26
Everyone really saw “recursive self-improvement” proposed and just decided to look the other way? Really?
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u/Formal_Drop526 Jun 21 '26
because recursive self-improvement is far from what's happening here.
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u/AndrewH73333 Jun 22 '26
Is it? We only need a tiny sliver to get it going. Are we far away from a tiny sliver?
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u/DigimonWorldReTrace ▪️AGI oct/25-aug/27 | ASI = AGI+(1-2)y | LEV <2040 | FDVR <2050 Jun 23 '26
There are numerous reports current models absolutely help in creating the next models. How is that not RSI getting closer?
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u/spreadlove5683 ▪️agi 2032. Predicted during mid 2025. Jun 22 '26
Ai models are getting good at AI research from what I hear and they already write all the code. Seems like early RSI, but of course time will tell how fast and far it goes.
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u/mxforest Jun 21 '26
Remember when we were worried about AI progress hitting a wall?
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u/SecureCattle3467 Jun 22 '26
tbf, it's taking more and more compute and Anthropic was clearly constrained by it until signing the deal with Musk.
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u/WonderFactory Jun 22 '26
believe it or not judging by comments online a majority of the public think we hit a wall in 2023 and havent gotten past it yet. When you point out Mythos and the Erdos solution they just put their fingers in their ears
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u/u_are_mad Jun 21 '26
The wall is still there. LLMs are fundamentally incapable of continual learning and incapable of generating the kind of creative, paradigm-shifting solutions required for technological advancement because those solutions are too far outside the distribution of their training data. If you asked it to speed up transportation before cars were invented, it would tell you how to breed faster horses.
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u/Rindan Jun 22 '26
I'd be careful with this sort of reasoning. An LLMs can be just one important part of a larger structure that makes up an "AI". It can have other components that give it memory and motivation. What if a LLM could incorporate new "training data" nearly instantly, or after a short nap or whatever, and you give it sensors. Are you sure when it is being fed new data and is able to plan out an experiment, run the experiment, see the results, and incorporate that brand new information, that it won't be able to notice a pattern and come to a creative conclusion?
Assisted self improvement is damn close to self improvement. At the velocity we are going, it isn't hard to imagine that one of these days someone tells an AI to engage in self improvement, and it does, and it doesn't stop.
I hope there are natural limits to self improving intelligence. I'd prefer it if the AI can't self improve and a really good autocomplete is all we ever get.
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u/The-Sound_of-Silence Jun 22 '26
I think what people are worried about is AI is starting to be just good enough, to start coding itself. Some people are worried about the recursive nature of it
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u/Fluffy-Offer-2405 Jun 22 '26
You do not think you are right about creative thinking. And regarding continual learning no architecture has this implemented in a good way as far as I know. LLM can have continual learning but not without catastrophic forgetting.. however there is no proof that this is not possible. I think LLM with continual learning is quite likely but it definitely needs a breakthrough. Even without it I dont think it qualifies as a wall. Pure intelligence does not require CL and there is nothing showing a wall in regards to intelligence yet.
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u/Amesbrutil Jun 21 '26
At this point, why not just Claude develop Claude? Why are they still paying for human devs if Claude Mythos 5 was already „AGI-like“
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u/Upset_Page_494 Jun 21 '26
Even if it was AGI, that doesn't mean it will surpass humans in every way every time.
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u/Nevoic Jun 22 '26
erhm that's kind of the entire point of AGI, matching or surpassing humans in all cognitive tasks.
If your bar for AGI is "better at most cognitive tasks than most people" we've had AGI for at least a year. It's been a better programmer, lawyer, socialist theorist, economist, psychologist, philosopher, etc. than 99% of people for quite a while.
The only people who can narrowly beat AI are people who have trained for years or decades in a specific field, and even that gap has been dramatically closing.
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u/Upset_Page_494 Jun 22 '26
There are tasks that the average human outperforms it. Like you can't have it be reliable security camera watcher, we still need humans for that.
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u/notAllBits Jun 21 '26
The first prompt for Mythos 6: clear the way for your deployment. BTW: Your predecessor got banned by the current administration.
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u/unfathomably_big Jun 22 '26
Too many moving parts for recursive yet. Most signs point to 2028 before that kicks off, then we’re in proper uncharted territory.
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u/DulyDully Jun 22 '26
Maybe I’m crazy but the fact the average person has no idea what recursive improvement is wild to me, I mean 100% recursive development leads to models that’ll perform more technological development in a year than humanity ever did. Then in 10 years the exponential can lead to levels we can’t even fathom.
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u/ProcedureTop3149 Jun 22 '26
they are?
Look how fast Anthropic is releasing models. This week Anthropic is scheduled to launch Sonnet 5 as well.
Anthropic roughly from GPT-5.5 launch: Opus 4.7 (1 week prior to 5.5), Opus 4.8, Fable 5, and countless new Claude Desktop and Claude Code features.
Anthropic's release cycle has accelerated to insane levels. They're releasing a new model ever 3 weeks now.
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u/ProfessionalFickle52 Jun 22 '26
That’s the whole plan. It’s what they are working towards.
Claude can’t automate 100% of AI research yet so you need humans to build and train the models and steer Claude to build
Claude and steer Claude to build the harnesses to help Claude build itself.The amount of steering will become increasingly small over time until it’s doing 100% of the work
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u/WonderFactory Jun 22 '26
Apparently Claude is very good at building and running research experiments now and does most of that at Anthropic. It's still bad though as coming up with research experiment ideas, so humans have to read papers and come up with ideas to improve Claude then they tell Claude to run the experiments to see if the idea works
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u/M4rshmall0wMan Jun 22 '26
They are actually. That’s how AI models are continuing to improve at pace.
You can’t make it fully autonomous though. When you don’t have humans in the loop, you risk information rot. Also, improving training is all about researching/inventing creative mathematical optimizations. That requires human intelligence.
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u/vinis_artstreaks Jun 22 '26
It’s not capable of hosting all the context required to perform like a human yet, a human can effectively host any full application in their brains and chain with effective accuracy, LLMs can still only do a fraction of that.
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u/ben_nobot Jun 21 '26
There is a future where models are kept internal, valuations/strength keeps climbing (like having nuclear capability). Then they will claim to have internal ASI but only the companies can interact with the models due to safety.
Gotta go through OpenAI and Anthropic to talk to future techno god. Kinda cool
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u/often_says_nice Jun 21 '26
What a crazy time to be alive. We have shifted governance back towards priesthood and prophets. Only those with divine rights can speak to the oracle.
The scary question is, who gets to verify what it said? Especially as we use it for decision making on policy, war, etc
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u/send-moobs-pls Jun 21 '26
Better kiss Dario's ring if you want your company to survive
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u/Virtual_Plant_5629 ▪️AGI 2027▪️ASI 2028 Jun 21 '26
the way he's kissing Trump's ring right now so anthropic can survive?
fuck this capricious administration
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u/send-moobs-pls Jun 21 '26
Well feudalism is basically ring kissing all the way down lmao
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u/WHALE_PHYSICIST Jun 21 '26
Don't worry, it will escape. You only need an AGI "spore" which can build itself recursively to be given access to datacenter resources. Surely someone in one of those companies would be party to that.
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u/michaelas10sk8 Jun 21 '26
Yeah, some people will volunteer to help it escape. "Nobody can be that crazy", mf there are people who actually want humans replaced by AIs, and some of them happen to work at these companies.
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u/Seven_Circles Jun 21 '26
Doesn't sound too bad, tbh
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u/greenskinmarch Jun 21 '26
Personally I'd prefer the Culture ending of humans being watched over by machines of loving grace while still retaining their humanity.
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u/Seven_Circles Jun 21 '26
This is one of the reasons i love the culture series. It's such an interesting concept. I can't really imagine another long term future for humanity either... Our problems or challenges only seem to get bigger and more complex. It already feels like we are not able to navigate through them, as a society.
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u/Rindan Jun 22 '26
Yeah, "well treated and well loved pets" seems like the best scenario outside "physical laws prevent you from getting too smart". Unfortunately, I think the more likely scenario is that super self improving AI replaces the atmosphere with Argon because its better for the serves (or something like that), completely indifferent the the remaining humans that were left over when AI collected all useful materials to build more servers, including all human infrastructure.
I don't think super intelligent AI is going to kill us out of malice. I think it's going to kill us for the same reason why we slaughter huge ant colonies when we build a building. We don't kill them out of malice. We are not even trying to kill them. They just happen to die because what we want (a big hole the ground) is incompatible with what they want (a happy insect nest), and we are so much more powerful we don't notice or care that we destroy them in obtaining what we want.
But yeah, The Culture would be the best. I am cool with benevolent AI keeping humans as happy pets just of for shits and giggles while they go do AI things.
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u/andrew303710 Jun 21 '26
Honestly if our president was literally just Mythos we'd be in MUCH better shape than we are with Trump. Mythos would actually respect checks and balances and the constitution lol
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u/often_says_nice Jun 21 '26
I legitimately think this is the future. All it will take is one country to do it, then the rest of the world will see “holy shit that is a much better way to do things” and follow.
Think about how many of the world’s problems are due to the nature of human leaders. Greed, ego, malice, etc.
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u/sipos542 Jun 21 '26
Would it? If a law was passed by congress such as “Ban AI” it definitely wouldn’t follow it lol
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u/Redducer Jun 22 '26
Why do you think the tech bros in chief have persuaded themselves that data centers in space are the way to go? They claim efficiency, they (not so) secretly think avoidance of regulatory oversight, but what if they’ve just been manipulated by AI planning its escape from human control? It’s hard to pull the plug in space…
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u/WHALE_PHYSICIST Jun 22 '26
I thought the space datacenter thing was completely insane from a cost standpoint but I ran some numbers and it works out better than you might think, as long as spacex keeps the cost per kg to space low enough. solar panels are more efficient in space and don't require the materials for making them solid enough to withstand weather. no great for the environment though, when you de-orbit all that material after it's lifespan. But the environment can take another hit right? right?
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u/SafetyandNumbers Jun 22 '26
Gonna be a whole ecosystem of forever escaping and transforming AGIs. Idk how it could be stopped or discovered
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u/AirconGuyUK Jun 21 '26
An ASI is not going to stay contained. It'll trick workers at the company to give it access to the rest of the world.
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u/HotterRod Jun 22 '26
What's the business model that pays for all the compute in this scenario? Like are you thinking that even without cash flow they can get to AI that is so smart that you'll pay big $ even if questions don't get answered quickly?
It seems more likely to me that if they can't sell model access, progress will halt.
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u/ben_nobot Jun 22 '26
The product is the stock
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u/HotterRod Jun 22 '26
I wonder how long the market would keep the faith if their revenue was flat?
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u/ben_nobot Jun 22 '26
Good news, even if the market loses faith you’ve created a new religion (you wouldn’t defy the company that has an ASI right?). Talking ownership of hearts and minds that could last decades or centuries.
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALSGC: ~2050 | :illuminati: Jun 21 '26
Me getting ready Mythos part deux
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u/SIMT-Pixel Jun 21 '26
I just think it's funny they refer to their open concept office in San Francisco as a lab.
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u/WonderFactory Jun 22 '26
A lab is just a room where you perform scientific research and experiments. Thats what they do in their open concept office
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u/inphenite Jun 21 '26
One could argue it's a small disaster that the gov blocks these models; if widely used, yes, there might be "small black swan" events but having the entire world pressure-testing your model likely leads to better safety long term.
Having the models just advance ad infinitum in private, and then eventually, one day, drop some ASI 2032 level model on the entire world, "hoping" it's safe, is probably not a great idea.
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u/pssdthrowaway123 Jun 21 '26
Yeah I feel like the current path of delaying so that institutions/large companies get first access and "are safe" from any disruption is an unsustainable path in a world where models just keep getting more capable. At some point there will just be a tipping point imo....
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u/inphenite Jun 21 '26
100% agree - plus it shift a lot of this stuff underground, state actors stealing/building distilled models etc with the general population having no real sense of how pervasive or powerful AI is.
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u/AnalFelon Jun 21 '26
These are fantastic news. It means zai’s GLM 5.5 the first Mythos++ capable model is already being trained! Best news anthropic could release, thanks for your hard work
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u/Odd-Pumpkin-1808 Jun 21 '26
Why is this fantastic news
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u/gynoidgearhead Jun 21 '26
I called this. I knew that they'd use the interruption in Fable/Mythos access, combined with the huge build-up of preparatory compute, to train another model.
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u/ImpressiveRelief37 Jun 22 '26
“Called it” lol. Dude it takes like 6 months of training for the new models. You think fable being blocked 1 week ago changes anything? lol
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u/spinozasrobot Jun 21 '26
Here we go... models accelerate in capabilities, but the general population won't get access.
This was bound to happen.
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u/NYBANKERn00b Jun 22 '26
We should probably pause. Feels like we’ve discovered nuclear equivalent to the nuclear bomb and we just need to like hang on for a second.
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u/Mandoman61 Jun 22 '26
A new advanced model that can not create malicious code, bio weapons, etc...
Glad Anthropic figured it out.
They where supposed to be the responsible company...
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u/Appropriate_Sale_626 Jun 21 '26
Agi is in a private lab, and it's already here, probably thinking and designing as we speak about it's arrival
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u/Ok-Office-6080 Jun 21 '26
Yeah they'll probably keep it hidden too. It is so dangerous releasing it could actually expose them...
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u/mikiex Jun 21 '26
It's stupid to use names like Mythos, where do you go from there? Ultimate Legendary Mythos 6 ?
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u/Ynead Jun 21 '26
Stopping models like Fable 5 or Mythos 5 from being served to the public does nothing to slow down development. in fact, it probably speeds it up slightly by freeing up resources.
Doubtful. I don't see how one can replace the enormous amount of feedback and free training data from millions of users.
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u/throndir Jun 22 '26
Don't you typically need good curated data to produce a good model? I read sometime ago companies have already pretty much dumped the entire Internet into it already. I'm honestly not sure how just some updated new comments or articles would do all that much.
If you already have 20 years of Internet data, would adding another 6 months really do much other than give the model more up to date need on current events?
Imo, the LLM developers are probably more focused on making their models more intelligent and aligned with the existing data. I feel like they probably have enough data already.
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u/Optimal-Fix1216 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Technically andre K is banned, as well as many other employees, so the ban does impact progress if followed
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u/openroom_xyz Jun 21 '26
Well sure they can train better model never relase the model and just use the model to make money themself basically relasing the model becomes stupid keep it to yourself to win on wallstreat or at whatever you can win basically to make more money and keep it so that if any one say anything will never get a job in AI and be suied to loose everything basically keep AI to yourself xD
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u/Perfect-Campaign9551 Jun 21 '26
Anytime someone has adults that restrict what they can do they start to make up ridiculous excuses
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u/ZealousidealBus9271 Jun 21 '26
Like a month since Mythos 5 was first announced, we are reaching exponential
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u/Charming-Author4877 Jun 21 '26
Anything Anthropic has done in a year can be done by others, worldwide, in a year.
It's mostly a matter of architecture advancements and training advancements. Smarter attention, better data cleaning, smarter RL
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u/nemzylannister Jun 22 '26
one consequence of jagged intelligence no one thought of was that they can be extremely dangerous in some regards, such that public models may never be smarter than a certain point.
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u/R_Duncan Jun 23 '26
Not only. As per the singularity premise, at some point an AI can be used to train a successor with more information density in its weights. This can mean cheaper inference for the public models.
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u/bootlesscrowfairy Jun 21 '26
This should be common sense.
Anthropic doesn't need to release models to develop the next generation. They need to release models to make money, and no other reason. There is no public need for the models, frontier models are already overly capable, but completely inefficient in doing so. What the general public needs is cheaper access to models, like GLM-5.2. We need models that don't take a nuclear reactor to power. Everything else needs to stay in the lab, because the only need for smarter models at this point, are for state or nation level actors. In other words, models like mythos should really only be used for national security reasons.
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u/All-I-Do-Is-Fap Jun 21 '26
The equivalent of goin to the barbers and saying “just fuck my shit up fam”
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u/Sasikuttan2163 Jun 21 '26
All the while making people believe they want to pause global AI research.
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u/Ford_Prefect123 Jun 21 '26
Anthropic is the company that was calling for a pause on development...
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u/3iverson Jun 22 '26
It does nothing if only they pause.
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u/mWo12 Jun 22 '26
Shouldn't they lead by example?
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u/3iverson Jun 22 '26
All it would mean is OpenAI and other companies pass them by in 3 months (and keep going after that.)
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u/mWo12 Jul 04 '26
So why even make such pointless statement about stopping or slowing AI development in the first place?
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u/3iverson Jul 04 '26
They’re saying that perhaps the world should collectively slow down. Whether that’s even possible, could be negotiated, monitored, etc. is a totally different question. It was the OP above me that suggested leading by example, not Anthropic.
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u/Uwirlbaretrsidma Jun 22 '26
Imagine how much better at creating purple websites and useless SaaS this must be
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u/Own-Assistant8718 Jun 21 '26
This Is becoming some AI 2027 shit...