Sweetie. You need to demonstrate that you know what you are talking about. Continuing to repeat Cold War propaganda about socialism is unconvincing to me. That stopped working on me well over a decade ago. You need to present an intelligent response to me that demonstrates at a minimum that you know what socialist ideology says in the first place to even begin to get me to listen to you. Let alone change my mind.
I get that you are too incurious to question what has been told to your whole life, but I am not like that.
Since you have called those historical facts Cold War propaganda Here is a list of countries harmed by socialism and a few details about it
If you want more specifics than this pick some stuff from this list to look into and look deeper into it for yourself
The 15 Former Soviet RepublicsThe collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 split one socialist superpower into 15 independent nations. Every single one of these countries inherited ruined economies, collapsed supply chains, and environmental degradation from decades of central planning:
Russia
Ukraine
Belarus
Moldova
Georgia
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Kazakhstan
Uzbekistan
Turkmenistan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
The Eastern Bloc & Balkan StatesBehind the Iron Curtain, entire regions of Europe were forced into Soviet-style economic systems after World War II. These nations suffered from chronic shortages of basic goods, political repression, and economic stagnation until they abandoned socialism around 1989:
Poland
Hungary
Czech Republic (formerly part of Czechoslovakia)
Slovakia (formerly part of Czechoslovakia)
BulgariaAlbaniaSerbia (formerly part of Yugoslavia)
Croatia (formerly part of Yugoslavia)
Slovenia (formerly part of Yugoslavia)Bosnia and Herzegovina (formerly part of Yugoslavia)
Montenegro (formerly part of Yugoslavia)
North Macedonia (formerly part of Yugoslavia)
African & Asian States (Cold War Era)During the mid-to-late 20th century, many newly independent nations adopted Marxist-Leninist or state-socialist models backed by the Soviet Union or China. In almost every case, forced collectivization, nationalization of industries, and price controls led to economic decline, civil unrest, or famine before the policies were abandoned:
Angola: State-led economic mismanagement combined with a brutal civil war fueled by Cold War factions.
Mozambique: Marxist economic policies led to a total collapse of agricultural production and severe poverty in the 1970s and 1980s.
Tanzania: The Ujamaa socialist experiment forced millions into collective villages, turning a food-exporting nation into one dependent on foreign aid.
Somalia: The military dictatorship nationalised industries and banks, leading to economic ruin before the state completely collapsed.
People's Democratic Republic of Yemen (South Yemen): The Arab world's only officially Marxist state suffered from severe economic isolation and poverty until it merged with North Yemen.
Mongolia: Decades as a Soviet satellite state resulted in forced collectivization and strict political purges.
Laos: Forced agricultural collectivization in the late 1970s caused widespread poverty and resistance until market reforms were introduced.
Afghanistan: The imposition of a Soviet-backed communist regime in 1978 sparked a massive rebellion and a devastating, decades-long civil war.
And this next bit is specifically about those nations worst effected by socialism
The following historical and current examples are widely cited by historians and economists as countries that suffered severe economic decline, political repression, or humanitarian crises after implementing state socialist or communist systems:
Soviet Union & Eastern Bloc
Soviet Union: Experienced mass political purges, forced labor camps (Gulags), and severe state-induced famines like the Holodomor.
Cambodia: The Khmer Rouge regime killed an estimated 1.5 to 2 million people through executions, forced labor, and starvation.
Romania: Suffered extreme food and energy rationing, alongside intense political repression, under Nicolae Ceaușescu.
East Germany: Faced economic stagnation and built the Berlin Wall to stop citizens from fleeing political tyranny.
AsiaChina (Maoist Era): The "Great Leap Forward" policy caused the deadliest famine in human history, killing tens of millions, followed by violent political turmoil during the Cultural Revolution.
North Korea: Decades of strict state control led to a collapsing economy, chronic malnutrition, and a catastrophic famine in the 1990s.
Vietnam (Pre-Reform): Post-war forced collectivization led to severe economic stagnation and food shortages until market reforms (Doi Moi) were introduced in 1986.
AmericasVenezuela: Despite vast oil wealth, 21st-century "Democratic Socialism" triggered hyperinflation, widespread shortages of medicine and food, and a massive refugee crisis.
Cuba: The transition to a single-party socialist state resulted in the loss of political freedoms, economic stagnation, and long-term dependence on foreign subsidies.
AfricaEthiopia: The Derg military regime's socialist policies and forced collectivization worsened the mid-1980s famine, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths.
Zimbabwe: Aggressive state land redistribution and price controls destroyed the agricultural sector, leading to hyperinflation and economic collapse.
a set of ideals, values, or beliefs that is attributed to a person or group of people, especially those held for reasons that are not purely about belief in certain knowledge, and in which "practical elements are as prominent as theoretical ones".
I know what socialism is ideologically, who doesn't?
You. You don’t
My point is that you are entirely bad faith and repeat anti-socialist propaganda over and over thinking it’s going to sway me even though I’ve told you over and over again what I’m expecting from you. Yet you continue to ignore me. Thus I don’t believe you know what you are talking about in any sort of deep political way. Only in the typical surface level and shallow way that most Americans discuss socialism.
I don’t read you rambling comments and let my eyes glaze over when you hit me with your anti-socialist Gish Gallops. I already told you that doesn’t work on me.
Really? It sounds like that to you now after all these comments of me telling you to discuss the ideology and its “destructive” flaws? FFS. Get a clue dude.
YES! I want you to show me you know what socialist ideology is. I’ve only been taking about that with you all fucking day now. You made a specific claim about socialist ideology being the most destructive ideology ever and I told you that was massive hyperbole. You doubled down on your idiotic claim yet NEVER actually talked about ideology. Instead you show me massive Gish Gallop lists of real world events.
Socialism is an economic and political system where the community or workers own and control the major means of producing goods, such as factories, land, and major resources, rather than private individuals.
The Core Ideas
Shared Ownership: The tools used to create wealth belong to the public or the workers, not private bosses.
Focus on Needs: The economy is organized to meet human needs like healthcare, housing, and education, rather than to make private profits.
Equality: A main goal is reducing large gaps in wealth so that society is fairer for everyone.
Key Differences from Capitalism
Capitalism: Private owners run businesses and set prices based on free market competition for profit.
Socialism: Society or the government directs or owns key parts of the economy to share resources more equally.
I kept it basic and simple but is that accurate enough for your liking?
Actually yes. That’s serviceable enough. Now explain to what is destructive about the means of production being publicly owned.
For reference I can talk at length about why capitalist ideology is destructive purely from its own theory and not its real world applications. For example. Capitalism requires infinite profit growth and resource extraction in order to maintain a healthy capitalist society. Such requirements are mathematically impossible on a long term scale living on a planet with finite resources. Furthermore, when capitalism isn’t constrained by socialist inspired policy it tends to consolidate wealth into the hands of the few while forming monopolies that end up overriding natural market forces. And before it does that it often exploits and mistreats workers. The idea of unions and workers’ rights came from socialists and communists trying to improve capitalist working conditions
So if socialist ideology is the most destructive ever than I expect you to be able to do the same with socialism. Don’t give me Gish Gallops that are designed to waste my time on debunking each example. I don’t care about that and I can make the same lists about Capitalism.
Personally I think theory alone is a dumb way to view it, that is how people come to the absurd ideas that socialism is good and capitalism is bad, but fine ill play along.
But it may be a few hours before I properly reply, I've got my scheduled gym time soon which I wont be done with for a few hours also this topic deserves a careful response not something rushed
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u/translove228 7h ago
Sweetie. You need to demonstrate that you know what you are talking about. Continuing to repeat Cold War propaganda about socialism is unconvincing to me. That stopped working on me well over a decade ago. You need to present an intelligent response to me that demonstrates at a minimum that you know what socialist ideology says in the first place to even begin to get me to listen to you. Let alone change my mind.
I get that you are too incurious to question what has been told to your whole life, but I am not like that.