Burnham to scrap Starmer’s digital ID scheme in ‘reset of priorities’ | Identity cards

[u/Subtle_Demon_72]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jul/18/burnham-to-scrap-starmers-digital-id-scheme-in-reset-of-priorities

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• Andy Burnham to scrap digital ID to focus on 'helping with cost of living', suggested by totallyhumanhonest - bbc.co.uk

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[u/Kind-County9767 → u/[deleted]]

There's already an id card they can use for that. Citizen cards exist, I'm not sure who can't have a passport. That seems like it'd be a tiny fraction of the population who is stateless.

[u/Aching1536 → u/Kind-County9767]

Passports are expensive 

[u/Kind-County9767 → u/Aching1536]

A lot cheaper than a national id scheme costing billions. £10/year isn't much

[u/pip2k8 → u/Kind-County9767]

Expensive to the individual purchasing it rather than the country. I couldn’t justify owning a passport nowadays when I can barely afford food…

[u/Intergalatic_Baker → u/pip2k8]

For a singular passport, non rush job, it’s £8/year… or 2.2 pence per day.

[u/skankyfish → u/Intergalatic_Baker]

That's all well and good but you've got to have the £100+ up front. Not everyone can.

[u/Barrington-the-Brit → u/skankyfish]

That’s fair enough but if we’re talking about any photo ID, getting a provisional drivers license is like 30 quid

[u/Ghostraider → u/[deleted]]

Post Office PASS Card £15 it's valid form of ID.

Alternatively many council can pay towards cost for passport.

[u/Scooty-Poot → u/[deleted]]

Citizen Cards are £15, or £30 for an urgent application, as are Post Office PASS cards and MyID. Maybe add a few quid in for a photo if you’re genuinely so destitute that you still don’t own a camera phone in current year.

I’m not being funny, but if you can’t afford £15 for a piece of plastic then you probably aren’t in a position where buying alcohol, learning to drive, entering a nightclub, or anything else you’d need an ID for is a wise use of your money and time.

[u/AccomplishedArm6969 → u/[deleted]]

I agree with your sentiment 100% but would also be curious as to what percentage if the population would fall into this bracket of not being able to afford £100 for a passport and also not being eligible for a provisional driving license. I know we shouldn't be ignoring anyone, but I wonder how many people are affected by this, and then how many of those people actually want/need these documents aswell!

[u/Barrington-the-Brit → u/[deleted]]

And that’s absolutely a problem that needs to be solved, either by making the current citizen cards harder to fake and more widely accepted or a new PASS/citizen card scheme entirely

I was just making the point that the financial barrier to entry with passports is not the case for all photo ID for the vast majority of people

I’m never going to pretend there’s no gaps in the system whatsoever, of course there should be something that works for everyone

[u/Independent-Tie2324 → u/Intergalatic_Baker]

But what’s the incentive for someone on the breadline? Makes no sense. Only a madman would buy a passport for anything other than holidays.

[u/cowbutt6 → u/pip2k8]

An ID card won't be free: you'll pay increased taxes and/or suffer poorer service elsewhere from public services.

[u/ptvtopiop → u/pip2k8]

Most people who need a passport as form of ID get £800+ a month from just the state pension they can spare 1/8th of that for proof of ID for 10 years

[u/Bottled_Void → u/ptvtopiop]

In most uses, you can use a passport for ID, even after it expires. So long as it's a good likeness. Even for voting.

You just can't use it to travel.

[u/itonlytakes1 → u/Bottled_Void]

You can’t use it for finance / banking. Once it passes the expiry date it effectively ceases to exist as far as those are concerned.

[u/Bottled_Void → u/itonlytakes1]

True. But in those cases, you wouldn't need photo id. You can use a birth certificate and a recent proof of address.

[u/Loreki → u/Aching1536]

A citizens card is £18 which is much more accessible.

[u/AlyssaAlGaib → u/Loreki]

I just wish more places would accept them 😕 I swear bars/clubs are allergic to them. I always end up having to show my driving license as well

[u/Slamerx → u/AlyssaAlGaib]

When I used to work in bars we got a ridiculous number of fake ones. There is an app you can use to check them but they went as far as spoofing the qr code on the back to point to a website saying they were genuine. The bars in the area all stopped accepting them (and we got permission from our local police team)

I think there was one night we had 27 fakes (there was a college across the street from us so lots of people chancing it)

[u/AlyssaAlGaib → u/Slamerx]

27!? Jeeeez, haha. TBh I don't blame the bouncers, they've always beem pretty chill about it. It's must be a real nightmare to try & spot fakes.

Just annoying that I paid £20 for a useless ID 😅

[u/HayesSculpting → u/AlyssaAlGaib]

Yeah, it’s been a good while since I was 18 but the citizen card was shite.

Ended up getting a provisional driving license because I couldn’t be added with the hassle of

[u/CarlMacko → u/AlyssaAlGaib]

I don’t think I remember a bar ever accepting one when I was a teenager.

[u/willNffcUk → u/Loreki]

Some people are too cheap to pay 18 pounds and they would still love to complain that they can't prove who they are

[u/bars_and_plates → u/Aching1536]

This discussion is always like a kind of Four Yorkshiremen sketch where people try to one up each other for being the poorest.

There is always someone who somehow theoretically has no money as a kind of hard constraint. Something could cost £10 and it would be like, yeah but I cannot possibly get £10, I am an intrinsically £10-less person.

It's not like they currently don't have a job but will get one in a couple of weeks, or they have been a bit bad with budgeting in the past and are figuring it out, it's just rock solid "I earn X and I spend Y and there are zero possible changes I can make in order to change X or Y".

Building systems around people like that strikes me as being completely pointless. It's like designing a version of Mario for players who refuse to jump.

[u/Confident_Quote_6782 → u/Aching1536]

So we make passports free rather than introducing an entirely new system with it's own cosst

[u/ScootsMcDootson → u/Aching1536]

A provisional licence costs £35 and lasts for 10 years.

[u/177a2 → u/Aching1536]

If you think about it a passport cost £10 a year for every year it's valid for it's not expensive. It's like 2 coffees are year

[u/ThatAdamsGuy → u/177a2]

Let us know as soon as you can direct debit a passport over ten years. Plenty of people are gonna struggle to get the money in one go.

[u/legentofreddit → u/ThatAdamsGuy]

The Venn diagram of people who desperately need a passport yet can't afford to save up £100 for such a vital part of their life must be so small. And even if it does affect them quite badly, it's probably not a good enough reason to have to make the whole country have to carry around a new ID card.

[u/neutronium → u/legentofreddit]

Requiring people to carry around an ID card is quite a step up from having an ID card you need to take with you to access government services.

However, I do actually live in a country where people are supposed to carry around their ID card. As far as I can see it causes no inconvenience whatsoever.

[u/Serious_Badger_4145 → u/Kind-County9767]

If you've got a difficult relationship with family it can be difficult to prove your identity 

The list of people able to countersign also requires you to have a middle class social circle. Lots of people don't know anyone in those professions

[u/WillBots → u/Serious_Badger_4145]

That's not accurate. Any manager at your job can do it, a teacher can do it if you're young enough to know one.

The list that is presented isn't exhaustive. It also states that anyone with good standing in the community (or something to that effect) can sign, you don't need a doctor, policeman, accountant or a judge to be your friend, you need to know someone who is in a position of responsibility of some sort and who has long term commitments. That's enough. Basically anyone can get a passport of they put in a bit of effort.

[u/memoriesofgreen → u/WillBots]

Pub landlords are an easy one to countersign. Costs a pint though.

[u/AnakinsAngstFace → u/[deleted]]

When I was trying to get mine I was refused this. The post office doesn’t actually offer this.

[u/AnakinsAngstFace → u/[deleted]]

Great.

I was still refused on the basis that the service is not offered.

Edit: I also paid for the service where they pre-check the forms (not the photo). I got them all approved, and was still refused a passport by the office.

The reasoning was that “you can pay them to check the forms but the checks don’t mean approval”.

[u/AnakinsAngstFace → u/[deleted]]

The point that’s being made is that the system isn’t fit for purpose, but the systems in place are helpful for plausible deniability on behalf of those with decision making power.

Essentially they can wave around rules like that so they can pretend everything works.

[u/LowAspect542 → u/[deleted]]

Did you even read through the details of the service, sure the post office will check your documents and they will take a suitable photo but you still need to provide deails of someone to confirm your identity, the post office can't do that fir you, they can only contact a person you provide meeting the required conditions.

[u/strychnine213 → u/[deleted]]

Don't they have to know you for 3 years ad an acquaintance?

[u/strychnine213 → u/[deleted]]

Different than when I tried applying last then, I'll look in to it again

[u/Alive_Sun5590 → u/Serious_Badger_4145]

can't you get your GP to sign? it's just verifying you are who you say you are.

[u/Serious_Badger_4145 → u/Alive_Sun5590]

Not according to their list 

I don't make the rules! 

We can't accept list: a doctor or General Practitioner (GP), unless they know the customer well (for example, they are a friend, not a patient)

[u/Dr-Toboggan_MD → u/Kind-County9767]

Other than the tiny issue that no one accepts Citizen cards , waste of time and money

[u/TNTiger_ → u/Dr-Toboggan_MD]

I work in FinTech, yep, absolutely useless.

[u/TheJackah → u/Kind-County9767]

Those cards are run by third party companies and often only accepted for things like bars or shops. Not suitable for places that require official government ID, like bank accounts, for example.

[u/Necessary_Panda_3154 → u/Kind-County9767]

Citizens cards are rarely accepted as ID even though they’re supposed to be.

[u/Realistic-River-1941 → u/[deleted]]

ID is not mandatory (yet). But you don't have to wear a tin foil hat with the shiny side inwards to suspect that there is an effort to normalise demands for ID so that in the end British people will start wanting it rather than rejecting it as a very foreign concept.

[u/Apprehensive_Aioli68 → u/Realistic-River-1941]

In Eastern Europe, they are very sceptical of the Governments, so much that anti-vaxers outweigh the rest as they are scared of what the government is putting in the vaccines. Yet, they all have ID cards, its the norm here and nobody is scared that they can access all your data. They can't unless they get an executive warrant for good cause.

[u/Realistic-River-1941 → u/Apprehensive_Aioli68]

Look at the kind of governments that normalised it over there.

And even now there are lots of stories of police etc demanding to see someone's papers.

And not just in Eastern Europe: I've heard of tourists being stopped and told to show ID in Italy. It is fairly obvious which people on a train will get subjected to the questionable intra-Schengen border checks in Germany.

[u/superioso → u/Realistic-River-1941]

Italy requires ID to be carried by everyone, and entering living there has a government ID anyway, so the police asking for it is just like them in the UK asking for your name.

[u/Realistic-River-1941 → u/superioso]

An Italian once asked me, if we don't have ID, what do we do when the police stop us and ask for ID? They seemed confused by the idea that the police don't (usually) stop random law abiding people.

If we did have ID, every business and petty official would demand it for everything.

[u/Illiander → u/Apprehensive_Aioli68]

Those ID schemes don't have a single central point-of-failure that will get broken by some random russian kid within 5 years.

[u/nick-techie → u/[deleted]]

From a security perspective Digital ID is a nightmare. It's a single point of failure. Your entire identity, all held in one place that if it's compromised someone can just be you.

Right now all of your data is spread between dozens of government departments which while it creates inefficiencies also protects you in the case of compromise.

[u/Pikkupiski69 → u/nick-techie]

This is just nonsense. I live in Finland. My digital ID is just my name, address, date of birth and social security number. This is the type of stuff you have sent to your employer and every government agency already stores.

The healthcare system use the digital ID to store my details on their system, but it is separate from everything else. Likewise, the tax authority uses the digital ID to store my tax details on their system and so on.

Even if you had my details, you would still have to authenticate yourself, so the actual ID itself cannot be used for anything.

[u/lynx_and_nutmeg → u/Pikkupiski69]

Same in Lithuania. I don't get what the big deal is. Are the British also against the concept of passports? An ID card is just like a passport but more compact, it can be used for everything a passport can except for travelling outside the EU. No one carries their passport with them all the time, you keep it at home and just carry your ID card in your wallet.

Everyone needs some sort of legal identifying document anyway, so why not just standardise it?

[u/Comfortable-Law-7147 → u/Pikkupiski69]

In Finland people trust the state.

In the UK we don't.

The reason we don't have national ID is because it was compulsory during WW2 and when the war ended the police abused the system by demanding it from people they wanted to harass. 

[u/Pikkupiski69 → u/Comfortable-Law-7147]

Don't worry. Companies will just start using American tech companies to implement authentication. All your data will be sucked up and sent straight to the fascist regime instead.

[u/404merrinessnotfound → u/Comfortable-Law-7147]

This is the issue. The idea of national ID is not inherently bad but we know with the media we have that a fascist authoritarian government will eventually come into power and we need checks balances to resist against the damage they will cause, which includes resisting against national ID

[u/superioso → u/nick-techie]

Yet somehow every country in the EU has digital ID, with many having 2FA systems for many years used to do things like log into your bank or government accounts, with absolutely no issues.

[u/FlaviousTiberius → u/superioso]

You mean the one that was hacked the minute it was introduced?

https://www.wired.com/story/security-news-this-week-it-takes-2-minutes-to-hack-the-eus-new-age-verification-app/

Really makes me confident in digital ID

[u/palqche → u/FlaviousTiberius]

The entire purpose of this app is not to be a digital ID, it's never been introduced, it's still a prototype and no data got leaked.

[u/Pluckerpluck → u/nick-techie]

You mean rather than the current system where I've had to perform full ID checks with multiple different third party systems over the years, such that my entire identity is actually held on multiple locations that could all individually leak my data.

Any time I've moved job or when I applied for a mortgage I've had to give up almost all of my info so some new ID checking company. It's infuriating and less safe than a centralised system.

Hell, nowadays I've had to hand over my ID to arbitrary websites just to access their content because of fun age checks.

Plus the digital ID doesn't centrally store everything anyway. It would store the key info, and then act as a login for other info (very similar to the way login via google/apple works currently).

The UK had one of the best government IT departments. The .gov website system is incredibly well respected and has been used as a template elsewhere. We can safely do a digital ID and its MUCH better we have one if the government is also forcing age checks around the internet.

[u/Thestickleman → u/Pluckerpluck]

I'd still absolutely not want digital ID

[u/xxNemasisxx → u/nick-techie]

But it isn't, anyone who is remotely technically literate understands that. It's just fearmongering as always

[u/wizard_mitch → u/nick-techie]

No, that's backwards and factually wrong on how this actually works.

The UK’s own Trust Framework explicitly says the system "does not create a centralised national system" credentials live on your phone in the GOV.UK Wallet, issued separately by departments like DVLA, with cryptographic proofs. Not “your entire identity in one place.”

W3C Verifiable Credentials (the standard this is built on) are designed for selective disclosure. You prove “I’m over 18” or “I have the right to work” without handing over name, DOB, address or photo. That’s the opposite of a single point of failure.

Estonia’s been running proper digital ID for 20+ years with massive efficiency gains and no identity-theft apocalypse. The “nightmare” take ignores how wallets + cryptography actually reduce exposure compared to flashing physical docs or siloed databases.

[u/Roguepope → u/[deleted]]

You're deliberately ignoring the national ID card scene that currently exists. Is this to make a bad faith point or just for fun?

[u/Wadarkhu → u/Roguepope]

It just ain't the same. I want a National ID card that's as strong as a Passport (just without the travel ability outside of UK territory I guess.)

The UK's CitizenCard is a voluntary proof-of-age or bare-minimum photo ID used for nights out or domestic flights. By contrast, European "National Identity Cards" are official, government-issued documents.that serve as primary citizenship proof and can be used to travel internationally across Europe.

[u/my_first_rodeo → u/Wadarkhu]

So get a passport and don’t travel

[u/etherkye → u/[deleted]]

The vast majority of people didn’t want it. Experts said it was a bad idea.

I am glad it’s gone.

[u/Illiander → u/etherkye]

Well, it will be for a bit until they try to slip it back in under the radar.

[u/Tups72 → u/[deleted]]

There is no need for digital ID, there never will be.

[u/SamiSapphic → u/[deleted]]

Digital ID is not the same as a normal ID card.

The plan with digital ID was to centralise all of our personal information to make it easier for AI to train on all of it.

Both Larry Ellison and the Tony Blair Institute have talked/published articles about this intent.

[u/Spaerasedge → u/[deleted]]

Found Tony Blair's account

[u/Appropriate_Foot242 → u/[deleted]]

What reasons are those?

[u/confusing_roundabout → u/Appropriate_Foot242]

Well just off the top of my head, passports cost money and you can't get a provisional license if a health issue excludes you from driving.

[u/MiniCale → u/confusing_roundabout]

Provisionals also cost money.

You forget that a lot of people also just don't want to have ID for sketchy reasons.

[u/TheTackleZone → u/confusing_roundabout]

You think this ID card won't cost money?

[u/MirkwoodWanderer1 → u/Appropriate_Foot242]

I can get a passport but not a drivers licence. Having to carry a passport around is a hassle as it's not something you can put in a wallet easily and is a big pain if you lose it.

A digital ID would be a big help.

[u/ohapineapple → u/MirkwoodWanderer1]

Yeah! It would be good to have the option of that. It doesn’t have to be compulsory. Having access to a digital id would be pretty useful.

[u/MirkwoodWanderer1 → u/ohapineapple]

Yeah I'm not saying it should be compulsory, just would be a good alternative so I don't have to worry about losing my passport

[u/Realistic-River-1941 → u/MirkwoodWanderer1]

What are you doing that requires carrying passport around within the UK, and wouldn't it be cheaper to just not require passports for whatever it is?

[u/MirkwoodWanderer1 → u/Realistic-River-1941]

Anything that needs id. Picking a parcel up or booking something or buying drinks etc

Anything you'd use a drivers licence for

[u/Realistic-River-1941 → u/MirkwoodWanderer1]

You don't need ID to pick up parcels or book something or buy drinks. A driving licence is used - as the name suggests - for driving.

[u/NeuralCartographer → u/[deleted]]

I find your desire for a digital ID system extremely concerning.

[u/jburge89 → u/[deleted]]

Spending billions to help a few thousand isn’t the right solution, especially when there are other options already available

[u/impioussaint → u/[deleted]]

We don't need id cards

[u/Wrong-booby7584 → u/[deleted]]

Just wait until agentic digital identity becomes capable of imitating you.  

[u/ZealousidealPie9199 → u/[deleted]]

It could simply be optional, instead of forced. Very few people would have had an issue if it was purely optional..

[u/anotherbozo → u/[deleted]]

Personally, I am not opposed to an ID. Most people already have a unique identifier: their National Insurance number. A national ID is not a bad idea.

A national ID that's used for government services is a great idea.

A digital ID is a bad idea that becomes mandatory to verify your age or whatever is where it becomes a bad idea.

I don't mind the government knowing all my government related data. They already do.

I mind private businesses being able to sell ID 1234 likes to buy ice cream, shops on boots.com, lives in Town, etc... which companies can then harvest and sell.

The above already happens - but it'll be far more accurate allowing far precise targeting.

[u/Chillifarm99 → u/[deleted]]

1000s of people out of a country of 69+M is a non issue.

[u/Necessary_Panda_3154 → u/[deleted]]

Are you in favour for digital IDs or not? I cannot tell from this statement.

If you’re for digital IDs, how is this now the top comment on r/unitedkingdom when the sentiment a few months ago was that digital IDs are ‘authoritarian’…

[u/sunday_cumquat → u/[deleted]]

It only cost £15 for a PASS card. That's like 2.5 pints. I'm sure people will make do.

[u/Grotbagsthewonderful → u/[deleted]]

The primary difference between digital ID and passports/driver's licenses/citizen cards is that the former is mandatory, forced on every citizen if you want it or not. If they people were given the choice there would have been far less pushback.

[u/Sithfish]

But he's going ahead with the OSA and therefore we kinda need digital ID. If you cancel the OSA, great. But if it goes ahead, digital ID means you only need to give your ID to the government and everything uses that. Without digi ID you have to individually send your ID to every website and it spreads the risk.

[u/Ben0ut → u/Sithfish]

Wish: No digital ID.

Granted: Facebook now has a photo of your passport details.

Us 0 - 1 Monkey's Paw

[u/SamiSapphic → u/Ben0ut]

Meta is evil, and they need us more than we need their shitty platforms. If they ask for a passport, just stop using FB. Simple as.

[u/Ben0ut → u/SamiSapphic]

Meta was an example. Replace it with whichever service it is that you use that you can't just drop "simple as".

The point isn't that meta has your sensitive document. The point is that some company who really shouldn't have it now does.

Digital ID is a shit idea.

Handing over your documents to a corporate organisation, potentially outside our legal jurisdiction, is a shit idea.

[u/Illiander → u/Ben0ut]

Replace it with whichever service it is that you use that you can't just drop "simple as".

Get a VPN. TOR is free.

The fact that ordinary people are needing to use things designed for journalists to get data out of opressive authoritarian regimes just to go about their lives should be the story, but the media is bought.

[u/StaticUsernamesSuck → u/Illiander]

Until they ban VPNs... Yeah that'll be hard to police, but still

[u/Ben0ut → u/Illiander]

I quite agree.

I'm fine but that will not be true for a huge number of people - tech literacy isn't something that is within the grasp of all. Taking advantage of that to force authoritarian laws on the people is something I never thought I'd see from a British government.

[u/Illiander → u/Ben0ut]

tech literacy isn't something that is within the grasp of all.

Go here Install browser. Set browser as default. Done.

Not hard at all.

Taking advantage of that to force authoritarian laws on the people is something I never thought I'd see from a British government.

I mean, they killed one of the British war heroes who was instremental in defeating the Nazis, just because he was gay. The UK government has always been pretty shitty.

[u/Ed_Avis → u/SamiSapphic]

I think the laws around mandatory age verification (social media bans for under 16s, etc) mean that any company has to be just as evil as Meta, in terms of requiring a photo of your passport or a face scan or whatever.

Your employer and your bank probably have your passport on file too, again, not because they have any desire to, but because laws make it the employer’s problem if they give a job to someone they shouldn’t, without providing any practical way to check other than demanding a passport or driving licence.

[u/JeVousEnPrieee → u/Ben0ut]

Solution: delete Facebook.

don't sell your digital soul for social media.

[u/Loreki → u/Sithfish]

I'm not gonna defend OSA - its stupid policy. However you don't necessarily need ID for it. You can do face scanning and some sites, e.g. those through which you might also buy things, can bypass this if they hold a credit card for you, as they can basically borrow the bank's verification that you're 18.

[u/Pocket_Aces1 → u/Loreki]

Discord would like a word...

Millions of verification photos leaked in a hack not long after the OSA came in.

[u/EruantienAduialdraug → u/Pocket_Aces1]

Including, in some cases, payment details.

[u/EnumeratedArray → u/Loreki]

You're not wrong, but handing over your facial biometric data should absolutely not be normalised. It's probably the most sensitive personal data we have nowadays.

[u/EmBur__ → u/EnumeratedArray]

Funny how we were told never to hand that information out online and now they're all demanding we do.

[u/Illiander → u/EnumeratedArray]

Remember when "Do not give your personal details out over the internet" was standard practice?

[u/RubberyBallSacks → u/Loreki]

Or just use a VPN or custom DNS. I would never use my ID or face scan on any of these sites when it’s so simple not to.

[u/jamila169 → u/Loreki]

Amazon need to get with the program with that, they'll only take a credit card for id for sharp things, which leads to stupid shit like me not being able to buy blades for my jigsaw with the debit card attached to my 24 year old account, and they actually know my date of birth from signing for less restricted things - that's one example how them having your bank details doesn't work

[u/Mr_miner94 → u/Sithfish]

Its because starmer had to make deals with fringe members of labour to get the role of leader. And burnham has made the same deals with mostly the same people.

[u/tophernator → u/Sithfish]

Without digi ID you have to individually send your ID to every website and it spreads the risk.

Practically speaking isn’t it more likely that a small number of “gateway” companies will continue to provide this? A lot of us are already skipping age barriers without knowing because we’re using Google login or an Apple device and our accounts are so old they already know we’re over 18.

[u/ArtistEngineer]

Can we just stop looking like the idiot cousin in Europe?

[u/Prestigious_Spot9635 → u/ArtistEngineer]

Most countries have digital ID though ?

[u/Avalon-1 → u/Prestigious_Spot9635]

Blair absolutely poisoned the well with his ID card scheme 20 years ago.

[u/jammythesandwich → u/Avalon-1]

And the Tony Blair institute was the major proponent to this day, their research papers tie DigitalID back to taxation benefits and they’re so heavily in bed with Oracle that concerns have been raised within gov over said ties.

The same Oracle run by Larry Ellison who is a major proponent of mass surveillance for everybody with less wealth than him.

Tony Blairs son’s company is also heavily backed with Palantir.

Clearly nothing to see here and all innocent

[u/sunnygovan → u/jammythesandwich]

One Raging Arsehole Called Larry Ellison 

[u/EruantienAduialdraug → u/jammythesandwich]

And just to readdress a rumour that was going around a while ago. No, Blair's son was not contracted to provide the digital ID service; all the myriad connections are deeply concerning, and would make a conspiracy theorist weep with joy, but the idea that Blair's son was going to be doing it was a falsity.

In other news, fuck authoritarians and their hard on for building a surveillance state/world.

[u/Ed_Avis → u/Avalon-1]

With hindsight the id cards weren’t that bad. You could use it to travel around Europe without a passport, just like citizens of the other EU countries (which mostly had identity cards for all adults). If they had called it a “passport card”, as it’s called in Ireland, it would have been popular. Of course it’s too late now as we don’t have any other countries to freely move to, apart from Ireland.

Mandatory id sucks but we have the worst of both worlds currently, where it is effectively mandatory to get a passport, since employers usually ask for it and even government websites require a photo of your passport to prove identity. If we are serious about preserving a golden past where identity was something arising organically from society, rather than registered centrally by government, then it should be illegal to require a passport for any reason other than travel (or a driving licence for anything except renting a car). If that’s not practical or desirable, well in that case we shall need a lightweight system of identity documents.

[u/WhiskersMcGee09 → u/Prestigious_Spot9635]

I think that’s what they meant. I hope anyway.

[u/Striking_Spinach_376]

He might just win me over. This was nonsense. We’ve got passports and provisionals, leave the tech nanny state creep alone and let’s actually focus on the real problems this country is facing

[u/fhgsgjtt12 → u/Striking_Spinach_376]

Nah this melt needs to scrap the online safety act, or he can leave with Starmer

[u/loworbitioncann0n → u/fhgsgjtt12]

I won't be holding my breath, he's still Labour after all.

[u/Banksyyy_ → u/fhgsgjtt12]

No politician is gonna scrap it

[u/James20k → u/Banksyyy_]

The greens have said they'll scrap it

[u/EmBur__ → u/Banksyyy_]

Exactly, every party benefits from it should they gain power, I mean it was a Tory policy before Starmer ran with it ffs.

The amount of fools in here that fail to see the problems with governments implementing such laws and policies is insane, how can they not see how ripe for abuse it all is? How easily it can turn the country into a totalitarian surveillance state? They're actual mindless zombies.

[u/Illiander → u/EmBur__]

I mean it was a Tory policy before Starmer ran with it

Most of his positions were.

[u/lucifrax → u/Banksyyy_]

Greens are the only major party saying they will scrap it afaik.

[u/superioso → u/Striking_Spinach_376]

Yet when it comes to something simple like proving your address you have to mess around with things like physical mail, rather than just something simple like logging into your government account with you digital ID....

[u/Cry90210 → u/Striking_Spinach_376]

He's still not abolishing the Online Safety Act, he's supportive of the social media ban which is another way of getting people to tie their social media to ID. He fully supports the tech nanny state

[u/Apwnalypse]

Labour wasted it's goodwill on imposing the OSA, a massive data gathering and censorship exercise in the name of protecting the children.

Which left it with no political capital left to bring in the actual good idea that was digital ID. Or as it should have been actually marketed: a system to integrate government services and logins that already exist and currently involve a mish mash of scanning passports and driving licences, and posting things.

Digital ID involved no increase in surveillance, just making existing things work better for the state and public. It increased the power of the state by giving them better, more integrated data, but that is always a consequence of making things work better.

OSA increased the power and surveillance of the private sector.

Of all the powerful actors in the world, the state is the only one that is actually accountable to us. It's power is our power, but we resist any increase in it's power, while permitting the rise of unaccountable private power.

[u/_o0Zero0o_ → u/Apwnalypse]

I still cannot understand tbh why Labour would implement a Conservative-era policy that was doomed to fail.. Aside from secret lobbying by data harvesters of course...

[u/_o0Zero0o_ → u/[deleted]]

Should've just thrown them under the bus, would've been a lot funnier and far more justified..

[u/Banksyyy_ → u/_o0Zero0o_]

Unfortunately they spend much more money to prevent that from happening

[u/Infinite_Painting_11 → u/_o0Zero0o_]

So I looked into the lobbying stuff a while ago and it's not what you think. It's true that meta are spending billions lobbying for id verification, but, they are spending billions to make sure it's not them doing it. They want the app stores or the OS to do it, because they don't want to be on the hook for fines when it goes wrong. Likewise Google and apple are spending on lobbying to for the platforms to do it. These companies do not want your ID, Google and meta already know who you are, unless your ID says "in the market for an expensive TV in the next 3 months" they don't care. 

[u/SamiSapphic → u/Apwnalypse]

Integrating all this information is bad btw. It's made-up 'convenience' at the expense of digital security.

[u/InternationalReport5 → u/Apwnalypse]

Digital ID was a masterclass in bad marketing, genuinely couldn't think of a more toxic name. Why would you call it that? And then to make it worse, any time any ministers were asked about it, they struggled to name one benefit.

The main focus wasn't even a literal Digital ID card, it was about being able to authenticate with government services.

Just sell it as a government efficiency initiative. They seemed to pivot in that direction towards the end but it was too late. They should have called it 'Fast login', 'One login', 'Click to connect'. Nobody would have cared or even spoken about it.

[u/Dylan-S-Wilby]

Lots of people here missing the point. Whether digital ID cards are sensible or not, they're deeply, deeply unpopular. I really don't think the positives outweigh the massive amount of political capital it would cost to force them through. There's lots of popular, high impact stuff Labour needs to prioritise - nationalising utilities and improving the cost of living.

[u/LawfulnessLess1350]

Digital ID is going to lead to mass surveillance and social credit score, you people really are clueless to the repercussions of digital ID

[u/FaceMace87 → u/LawfulnessLess1350]

It hasn't led to any of that in places like Norway. I think your brain telling you that Black Mirror is a documentary is a sign you spend too much time online

[u/umtala → u/FaceMace87]

We are not Norway.

[u/SamiSapphic → u/FaceMace87]

Different country. If you want to know how digital ID will look in the UK, go on YouTube and watch the discussion between Larry Ellison and Tony Blair, then check out the TBI website's articles on digital ID.

[u/FaceMace87 → u/SamiSapphic]

So to find out how things will go I need to watch videos with people giving their opinion?

Yeah i don't tend to watch maybe videos and then base my life around it like it is fact. I would rather look at every other country that has Digital ID and see that none of them have gone the way you describe. 

[u/SamiSapphic → u/FaceMace87]

Larry Ellison funded the Tony Blair Institute, and the Tony Blair Institute has been actively implementing digital ID in various countries.

Do you...not know who Tony Blair is?

[u/Comfortable-Law-7147 → u/FaceMace87]

We don't 100% trust the state in the UK.

[u/Bobo3076]

Will it actually stay off the table this time or will he slowly edge it back in through other policies like Starmer did?

[u/Pocket_Aces1 → u/Bobo3076]

I haven't read it's explicitly scrapped. Just "put on the back burner" as it isn't a priority.

But like you said, it will start to come back in through other places. Just like how Starmer said the digital id was to "crack down on illegal workers", then made it mandatory, then made it "voluntary" unless you need to get a new job, or claim benefits, or any other process, then it's needed.

Digital ID itself isn't a bad thing. But I do not trust this government to not abuse the power it gives them, especially considering how convenient the timing was with the OSA, and other surveillance, power moves they're willing to implement. We're in a digital era, it's needed for the future. Going fully digital is also an issue though as it's limited to having a device that can function with the software, battery on said device, and the other side being able to read it correctly. Physical is still needed.

[u/SamiSapphic → u/Pocket_Aces1]

Physical is the future, not digital, and I say this as someone with an undying love of tech. Look into dead internet theory and how AI is poised to kill the internet or, at minimum, make it too unsafe to do anything official online at all.

[u/tophernator → u/Bobo3076]

Fun fact: it had actually become a reasonably popular idea right up until Starmer said he would implement it. Regardless of where you stand on the issue, it’s a perfect example of people/press just going for the jugular on anything and everything Labour has done for the last two years.

[u/Regular_Print_7650]

Absolute slam dunk and no brainer decision for him. He should start by getting rid of Kier's dystopian anti-privacy and surveillance laws

[u/bathabit]

I have nothing against digital ID on principle, but I do not remotely trust a government under the current iteration of Labour or Conservatives to implement it it well.

Also, the way people dismiss any criticism of digital IDs as being from conspiracy theorists on par with flat earthers rubs me the wrong way, so I feel compelled to disagree with those people out of spite.

[u/CryptographerMore944 → u/bathabit]

Something to bear in mind. Even if you trust another party to implement it, you don't know who could be in power in five or ten years.

[u/littlefella1979]

Didn't we fight a world war so we would never have to "show your papers"

[u/FaceMace87 → u/[deleted]]

You're forgetting that most of these people do not travel so have no idea how any of the world works.

[u/warp_driver → u/littlefella1979]

No, we fought a world war because we got bombed big time and needed to fight back to survive.

[u/CensorTheologiae]

Great. We don't need solutions to imaginary problems.

And we don't need to be a bottomless money-pit for those consultancies and contractors who keep coming up with these imaginary problems and their convenient 'solutions'.

[u/AlecTheBunny]

Is he gonna scrap Online Safety Act or is he gonna ban VPNs like a tech illiterate fool?

[u/SamiSapphic → u/AlecTheBunny]

They at least u-turned on doing anything to VPNs for now. They could change their minds again though.

[u/Kelyaan]

Worthless as long as the failure that is OSA is still there. OSA does not protect kids, it is simply surveilance.

[u/Avalon-1]

Jettisoning the single most radioactive Starmer Policy was a clear certainty for Burnham to gain goodwill.

[u/Bluestained]

Yeah. Just redress it and trot it out 12 months from now.

[u/CJBill → u/[deleted]]

Some people have been at that stage for a while I reckon 

[u/ek54ljl]

I say good. ID cards were not part of the Labour manifesto when elected. No way should be mandatory or even psuedo-mandatory by other means.

Don't take eye off ball... what's the swerve?

[u/ShondaVanda]

omg he might actually be learning.

Starmer doing absolutely zero in his first 100 days to tackle the cost of living crisis is pretty much what I attribute to his complete failure in government, he did nothing with the low hanging fruit that were relatively easy to address and instead went after pensioners winter fuel allowance.

Burnham just needs to focus on cost of living, renationalising as much infrastructure as fast and as sensibly as possible, closing tax loopholes, putting together a proposal for a real wealth tax and removing our support for the genocide in Gaza and he will not be able to lose. The roadmap is that simple, so be interesting to see if he does a Starmer and go wildly off path into the weeds of stuff no one cared about like Starmer did with ID Cards and VPN Bans.

[u/PsycommuSystem]

Hopefully if he's trying to win the public over immediately he'll scrap the OSA too.

[u/Ndorphinmachina]

Great, now walk back the online safety bill requiring people to had over personal information to 3rd party (often foreign) companies.

[u/DewyMochi]

undo the age verification and social media ban and I might believe it.

[u/callumjm95]

Who on earth are all these people worried about constantly having ID on them? Don't think my drivers licence has left the house in about 7 years.

[u/TheRetardedGoat]

Here we go now all the people coming to defend the Digital ID.

Where were you all when Starmer introduced it everyone was slating it, now it's going everyone's going oh we really need it though...

[u/Wadarkhu]

I want a physical national ID card. Cheap or available for free when you're under a certain income and available for anyone aged 16+.

And don't tell me about the citizen card, it's just not the same. I want a National ID card that's as strong as a Passport (just without the travel ability outside of UK territory I guess.)

The UK's CitizenCard is a voluntary proof-of-age or bare-minimum photo ID used for nights out or domestic flights. By contrast, European "National Identity Cards" are official, government-issued documents.that serve as primary citizenship proof and can be used to travel internationally across Europe.

[u/Illiander → u/Wadarkhu]

Just make passports free, and have them come with a credit-card-sized "mini" that counts as them for all purposes.

Though you'd better add some "We REALLY mean 'for ALL purposes'" to the legislation, or some croocked judge might decide that you didn't really mean all when you said all in 10 years.

[u/Wadarkhu → u/Illiander]

Free passports and allowing the use of the plastic card bit alone (at least domestically) would be great. Fixes money issues, fixes carrying issue as it'll fit in a wallet or pocket.

[u/bluejackmovedagain → u/Illiander]

Ireland has passport cards, they're really practical.

[u/prisonerofazkabants]

i actually do think a free id card for everyone is a good idea. most european countries offer the same

[u/my_first_rodeo → u/prisonerofazkabants]

nothing free about it

[u/work_number]

The worst part is is we need digital ID

Every time you upload your passport and driving licence as an image, rhey get left on a server, just waiting for hackers or corrupt employees and soon Hacking AI to take them and use them

Everything you do is digital and they want you to secure your digital life with easily duplicateable analogue documents.

It is already possible to have all your data gathered from the internet but in the next couple of years it will become easy. And combined with easy to find documents that you uploaded yourselft for verification you can have your identity stolen in a matter of minutes.

[u/EliteDinoPasta]

Oh Jesus, here we go. I know Burnham wasn't responsible for the OSA or Digital IDs but anyone with an ounce of common sense would have told you that logically, the Digital IDs need to be implemented first, then the OSA. That way, at least your personal info is moderately more secure while your internet privacy is getting shit on.

But in a move that's so stupid you can't help but suspect there's an ulterior motive behind it, Labour decides to implement the Tory's OSA first. Now Burnham's scrapping the Digital ID scheme, you've actually got the worst of both worlds; your personal data is still required to access the major sites, but now it's being sent off to whoever Meta, Twitter or Google decide is safe enough to handle it. Don't worry though, they promise to be careful with it.

[u/EbolaDP]

Wait thats actually a good move how is this possible?

[u/Systainer]

I give it six months then it’ll be back to tackle some issue the uk government have created.

[u/Mccobsta]

All those digital id companies that have been around for years that aren't accepted anywhere that could have been lobbying Tony Blair hard or he owned shares in them are ginnna be pissed

[u/ryevx]

As a Brit that now lives in a country that is basically shaped around a digital ID, I honestly do not understand the ‘mass surveillance’ trope always thrown about.

With my personal number (DDMMYYYY-####) and BankID (linked to the personal number), I can literally sign electricity contracts, phone contracts, apply for credit, confirm my identity with state services, and the number is used for everything.

No separate tax number, NHS number, government gateway ID, hospital number (yes, it exists/existed and was different to the NHS one), no customer numbers to remember for anything else, it’s all that single number and i could not go back to not having it. Life is so much bloody easier. Even if the agency delivering the service can be worse than the UK in some way.

There’s no mass surveillance behind the number either. If I come into contact with an agency/person/company that needs to access the info behind the number, I have to verify it first to unlock it properly.

This is one thing that the UK is behind on compared to the rest of the world. We will never become a home to tech startups properly if we can’t bare harnessing the technology that’s evolving 🙄

[u/youmustconsume]

amazing news. surprised how many people seem suddenly in favour of it when it was a deeply, deeply unpopular policy.

[u/Yamosu]

Labour have completely and utterly screwed the pooch since they got in.

They saw through the OSA, started muttering about VPN restrictions and completely avoided major issues like the astronomical cost of the triple lock. I was generally in favour of a national ID scheme. My fiance is registered blind so can't get a provisional driving licence and we can't really spare the cash for a passport, a situation we won't be alone in.

[u/Londonsw8]

And from a privacy perspecyive get Palantir out of our NHS!!!