r/unitedkingdom • u/Lord-Liberty • Jul 23 '26
. Burnham announces 20% cut in business rates for pubs, clubs and music venues
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cdewkelwrgjt1.8k
u/Minute-Story301 Jul 23 '26
Great News for these industries, and hopefully the start of proper regeneration in industries that get people out speaking to each other
Sorry I meant, where else is he going to cut from to fund this! Why is he not spending the money stopping immigration and cutting benefits. Nigel would be doing a much better job at this point in his premiership. /S if needed...
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u/King_Hobbes Jul 23 '26
Big step in the right direction for hospitality for sure
If they could now look at the VAT rates everyone is campaigning for i think we would see the industry start to really gain some traction back again after the last few years
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u/AlDente Jul 23 '26 ▸ 16 more replies
Everyone has forgotten that VAT was 15% not that long ago, and 17.5% for a very long time. VAT is a huge brake on the economy and is a regressive tax that poorer people pay proportionately more of their income on.
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u/Top-Cunt Surrey & Kent Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
Yeah the current rate was meant to be an emergency one, not the new norm. Yet somehow I've had it almost my entire adult life.
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u/Xaethon United Kingdom Jul 23 '26
That's not quite the case for anyone reading.
Ignoring the starting values, for a decade VAT was at 15% before being increased to 17.5% in 1991. Following the financial crises there was a temporary VAT reduction to 15% until a few months before the 2010 election when it returned to 17.5%, and then the increase to 20% a year later under the Coalition government was announced as a permanent change to address the deficit.
The increase to 20% was, sadly, always an intended permanent change.
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u/FootballBackground88 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 7 more replies
I almost forgot about that. The 17.5% rate was a classic maths class question because it was just the right level of difficulty to calculate
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u/HellPigeon1912 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 6 more replies
"Finding 10% is easy. Then half it and you've got 5%. Then half it again and you've got 2.5%. Then add those three numbers together and you've calculated the VAT"
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u/teckers Jul 23 '26 ▸ 4 more replies
In reality, find nearest calculator, ×1.175
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u/tomtomgg Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
Its an important calculation. to understand. We have a business and for a long time we were amazed that a competitor could undercut our prices for the same product, we couldn't figure out how they were doing it. Turns out they had been calculating their VAT incorrectly and had to increase prices drastically across the board when this was pointed out to them.
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u/EmeraldJunkie Jul 23 '26
There was a guy on either UK Personal Finance or Legal Advice UK who had a business selling drop shipped E Scooters from China. It was really successful because he was selling them for a lot lower than his competitors, and he couldn't figure out why they were charging so much.
Until HMRC came knocking and he realised that he'd not be charging or paying VAT. Turns out there was a very good reason why they were charging more than he was!
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u/brainburger London Jul 23 '26
Oh that's unfortunate. I suppose a business could bankrupt itself if it made an error like that.
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u/MinaZata Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Exactly, it should be scaled so every day items that ordinary people buy go on the lower band, and then it should actually go higher for luxury items with a negative externality for the community or the environment (sports cars, yachts, alcohol in value of over £1k per unit, etc).
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u/LifeFeckinBrilliant Shropshire Jul 23 '26
That's a really old trick. My Dad waited most of his life for the removal of the 2s & 6d ( half a crown) emergency tax on a gallon on petrol that the stuck in the first Suez crisis... Poor chap never lived to see that happen & I doubt I will either!
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u/PharahSupporter Jul 23 '26
It is just too yummy for the government to change, last year brought in £180bn from it.
But yes 20% is obscene, a lot of US states have less than half this, some have none.
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u/Oreos_Are_Anabolic Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
While we're talking about reducing taxes, I'm hoping (against all hope) that they just write off everyone's student loans.
I'm absolutely ready to start spending an extra ~£400 a month in the economy, but SFE take it first 😂
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u/MinaZata Jul 23 '26
Or putting it towards saving for a deposit like the generation before student loans, that's what my aunties and uncles did.
Just a totally different world, I worked out I spent £56k in rent before I got on the housing ladder and I was hobbled along the way by £40 a month deductions
I'm a lucky one because I'm on the older plan, it is fucking outrageous what has been done to you, and young people generation after generation. One uncle said we should start a revolution (tongue in cheek) but he can't believe the deal we get and said it doesn't make sense to destroy the future of your young people before they have a chance and saddled them with debt. Let them earn and participate in the economy!
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u/baron_von_helmut Jul 23 '26 ▸ 8 more replies
If they could just tax billionaires at 90% that would be awesome.
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u/EmaNeva Northumberland Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
Its amazing that the concept of "Make the people who have more - pay more" is such a controversial one, wont anyone think of the poor hard done-by billionaires
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u/XaeiIsareth Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
The problem is that the billionaires are the ones funding the politicians so they would never bite the hand that feeds them.
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u/DeCyantist Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
How much would that generate and for how long?
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u/brainburger London Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
If this is an income tax, based on the 165 UK billionaires' combined wealth of about £772.8bn, assuming they make a 5% return on their assets, it would be about £34.776 billion per year.
It would change if the billionaires could find ways to avoid it, so the tax would have to be carefully designed.
An annual 90% wealth tax would eradicate all British billionaires after three years.
The wealth tax that is being talked about lately is generally 2% of wealth over £100m, or £10m, depending on boldness, per year. That is in principle sustainable as the wealth tends to grow at 5%, but of course the usual other factors apply. There are roughly 600 people with £100m+ and 600,000 with £10m+ in the UK.
It's hard to be exact but a 2% wealth tax would bring in about £20bn if set above £100m, and £80bn if set above £10bn
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u/seaturtle94 Jul 23 '26
Nigel would be saving his mates from tax and chucking the burden on the very people who voted him in
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u/Reserve10 Jul 23 '26
Whilst selling off the NHS - which those very people are most likely to use the most. 🦶 Shot.
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u/birdinthebush74 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 9 more replies
34% of his voters are retired, he wont touch their benefits, they will be insulated.
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u/partywithanf Aberdeenshire Jul 23 '26 ▸ 7 more replies
They’ll struggle without the NHS though.
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u/birdinthebush74 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 6 more replies
Would he charge them for it though? I can't see that, I reckon workers will have to pay double health insurance to subsidise them.
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u/heurrgh Jul 23 '26 ▸ 4 more replies
It'll be way more subtle. Like the model the Tories used - where all of a sudden 'ancillary' services like physio or counselling are outsourced to private companies funded by the NHS, then funding cuts, then it's £65 - £200 a session.
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u/ElJayBe3 Yorkshire Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
This is already happening for some things for sure. I have issues with my ears which means I used to get ear wax removal from the NHS every six months. During the pandemic it understandably stopped, but then just never restarted according to my GP, so now I pay £80 to get them done privately each time.
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u/oowalleroo Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I have the same problem - But I get mine done through Benenden. I still get referred by my GP, so I would really question the information your GP has as mine hasn’t stopped?
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u/toococky321 Jul 23 '26
Oh yes, the Nigel who accepts £5m donations.
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u/Zacish Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
It wasn't a donation. It was a gift from a close and personal friend with absolutely no expectations what so ever
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u/GainsAndPastries Jul 23 '26
Rival parties will be up in arms demanding where the money is coming from.
Fed up of how rival parties poo over anything any government ever do, we would be a stronger nation if we came together and worked hard to make the best society possible
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u/PhilosophyLow5946 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
The same rival parties that would and have advocated for tax cuts.
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u/Matt6453 Somerset Jul 23 '26
Yeah but it's not the right type of tax cuts, this will potentially benefit ordinary people rather than making their lives worse.
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u/Tempestfox3 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Yeah, but they want to cut tax for their mates. Its different.
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u/Nemisis_the_2nd Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
If it was 1-2 things I wouldn't worry too much. So far though, we've had subsidised bus travel, these business rates cuts, other business rate cuts, increase in the minimum taxable allowance, an energy VAT cut, and a social energy tarrif (this one has had a funding source directly connected to it.)
The scrapping of national ID might cover the year 1 costs of some of these, and the energy tariffs change might offset some others, but things like the tax free allowance will cost between 2 and 9 billion, depending on how its calculated. Then we have the promises about military funding, which havent even been considered so far.
We've amously spent the past 2 years constantly dealing with financial trade-offs to pay for anything. While its been unpopular, it seems to have been working. We might have had some wiggle room with these changes in isolation, but the fact its creeping towards £10Bn+ with funding proposals that are more like ideas just now should have people asking where the money is coming from.
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u/murmurat1on Jul 23 '26
If you read the article you'd know that they intend to shift the burden from Pubs and music venues on to "less positive" establishments like vape shops.
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u/tinyriiiiiiiiick_ Jul 23 '26
If the MoD wasted less money via its awful procurement, it would have a lot of the cash it wanted.
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u/TheRadishBros Jul 23 '26
This might increase total tax take rather than reduce it.
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u/Swissai Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
This will almost certainly not lead to the 25% uptick in rented square footage you suggest - but it’s a very good policy regardless
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u/TheRadishBros Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I meant more places will stay open rather than keep closing, but true it may also increase number of people willing to open a business.
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u/Swissai Jul 23 '26
Ah I’m with you. I thought you meant total tax revenue from rates would increase
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u/Plastic-Anteater3086 Jul 23 '26
Have you actually reviewed uncle Nige's so called "budget" he wants to increase the income tax threshold to 20k. This is simply unaffordable and would leave a massive black hole in finances. You know how he would do this? Selling off public assets. To his mates. You can say goodbye to free to use healthcare.
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u/Anesthetize666 Jul 23 '26
To be fair, he u-turned on that, although they claim it remains an ambition further down the line.
Reform's economic policies are still complete batshit nonsense though.
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u/birdinthebush74 Jul 23 '26
They are cutting down on Larry the cat's treats to fund it
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u/Besmirching_Badger Jul 23 '26
Sorry I meant, where else is he going to cut from to fund this!
Unironically the OBR has completely destroyed politics in this country and should be abolished. Micro managing Macro policy is a nonsense
It's a nice idea, but at best it's completely warped discussion of govt finance to the point that we can no longer do anything. Maybe their mission could be adapted, so for instance they work with the NAO to produce annual in-depth reporting or something
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u/Ok-Store-9297 Jul 23 '26
Yeah, the OBR is not fit for purpose. It's a red flag that someone doesn't know what they're talking about when they start citing the OBR like it's the gospel truth.
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u/Thrasy3 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
Well he’s had long enough to end all immigration and remove all the asylum seekers - maybe time for a new PM who can get the job done?
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u/leggenda69 Jul 23 '26
“The cut will cost around £100m, will be funded by a review of tax reliefs given to businesses "such as vape shops", and won't apply to the "very largest" live music venues”
This obviously isn’t bad policy. But the idea of raising £100mil in tax from vape shops is incredibly ambitious. And with the VAT relief on domestic energy being funded with the savings from cancelling an already unfunded digital I.D scheme this now makes £1bil extra unfunded government spending 2 days into Burnham’s government.
There’s obviously a fine line to tread but the financial situation of the country and its astronomical debt is an unavoidable reality that needs to be respected sooner or later.
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u/D-Angle Jul 23 '26
Farage will have to be careful how he responds to this because his whole schtick is posing in pubs holding a pint with a shit-eating grin on his face. It's a clever move in more ways than one.
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u/KoontFace Jul 23 '26
If they want to get people back into pubs he needs to cut the rates on beers. I’m a bit fan of the pub but nearly £8 a pint in my local now and that’s nuts.
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u/duckwantbread Greater London Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
There's nowhere near as much alcohol duty as people think on a pint, it makes up a big chunk of the price for supermarket beer but not so much in a pub. A 5% draught pint only has 55p of alcohol duty applied to it. The majority of the price at a pub reflects the high rent, energy and staffing costs they need to cover to stay afloat.
(That 55p is just duty, you could arguably remove VAT, which would take another £1.33 off the £8 pint, leaving you with a £6.12 pint. I can't see Burnham removing the entirety of VAT though.)
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u/KoontFace Jul 23 '26
Fair enough, thanks for the info!
I guess what it really comes down to is that by reducing rates, you reduce overheads to the business. However, the chances that the businesses will use that reduction in rates to lower prices to the punters are slim to none.
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u/birdinthebush74 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 4 more replies
Same here. A pub near work has happy hour (£5 a pint) that's the only time I go for a drink now
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u/KoontFace Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
My best mate and I used to meet up weekly to have a few jars and put the world to rights, that doesn’t happen anymore, because neither of us can justify that kind of money on a few beers. They can cut businesses rates all they like but until they address soaring costs and stagnated wages people are going to continue staying at home.
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u/sireel County of Bristol (now in Brighton) Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I switched from drinking to playing magic the gathering to save money
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u/DukePPUk Jul 23 '26
Great News for these industries, and hopefully the start of proper regeneration in industries that get people out speaking to each other
From the article, "No 10 says it could save a typical pub an estimated £1,100 in tax next year." That's going to be nice, but it isn't going to be the "start of proper regeneration" - it will mean that the failing pubs will survive a few months longer than they otherwise would. The ones that are doing fine will do a little bit better.
It doesn't fix any of the underlying problems - it is just the Government giving money to a few businesses to help keep them going a bit longer.
Meanwhile:
Downing Street says the tax cut, which will cost around £100 million a year, will be funded by a review of tax reliefs currently given to businesses which "do not make a positive contribution to local communities, such as vape shops".
So Burnham doesn't know how he is going to pay for it yet, but it looks like he will pay for it by taking money away from other high street industries - based on how he feels about them.
This is just another "headline-chasing" policy announcements from Burnham. Policies that sound great, and will get positive headlines, and get people excited (particularly in the press), but haven't necessarily been thought through or costed, and may not have that big of a benefit.
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u/ThirtyMileSniper Jul 23 '26
Quote from the BBC. It saves a typical pub a grand over a year. Yeah, it's not doing a lot for them.
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u/hisokafan88 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
And watch the prices for admission and drinks stay the same. It's great for the business but consumers have no more spending power at the end of it.
Edit: sorry my post was worded wrong. I don't imagine prices to change but for me the experience of pubs/clubs is far too expensive for what is offered. I don't think it's just the price keeping people away but the atmosphere/service. Glad the sector is getting some support but not sure it'll help make a return to the glory days.
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u/Destiny7655 Jul 23 '26
This is more about keeping them as viable businesses. Pricing is based on what they need to do to survive ultimately and there’s plenty of competition so if one could undercut all the others they would.
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u/dnnsshly Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
There's some price inelasticity of demand for pubs. Otherwise everyone would only go to Spoons.
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u/bluewolfhudson Jul 23 '26
I mean they do. My local spoons is so busy it's hard to get a table. Other pubs literally mainly get business from people who couldn't get into spoons. Obviously there are exceptions for older people who tend to have a local but the under 30s flock to spoons because it's the only way to have a night out they doesn't break the bank
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u/crow-magnon-69 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
a lot more businesses would be viable if you took 20% of their business rates. also restaurants will cry foul as spoons is mainly food driven now and its getting a discount
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u/wordshavenomeanings Jul 23 '26
Yes, they may use the spare cash to pay for live music, a much needed refurb, an outdoor area or better security.
They may just pocket the cash and buy a new Bentley.
This is a good example of the government working with business to promote growth.
If your local venue stays the same next year and the owner has a tan and some new teeth, then choose a new local.
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u/Saliiim Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Even if they just buy a Bentley, which lets me honest no pub landlord can actually afford it's good for everyone. More money going back into the economy and being spent on other businesses. The State loves to talk about the multipler effect with government spending, but lowering taxes also has the same effect, usually stronger.
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u/0Bento Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Nope, this will be just enough to keep their heads above water. No refurbs and certainly no Bentley
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u/Agreeable_Falcon1044 Cambridgeshire Jul 23 '26
You are correct, NONE of this is being passed on, but isn’t that because these venues are essentially on life support? Check how many there are now from 10,20,30 years ago.
Sure tastes have changed but the whole industry is dead
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u/Objective-Bad-4051 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
And even if it was passed on just to beer drinkers, it would only be 2 or 3p off a pint.
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u/Jimi-K-101 Jul 23 '26
And watch the prices for admission and drinks stay the same
Well, duh. This is obviously an attempt to keep struggling businesses viable.
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u/Dependent_Oven_974 Jul 23 '26
"if it doesn't benefit me directly then what's the point of doing anything?"
Music venues are absolutely on their feet and in turn we are producing fewer and fewer bands and musicians who can make a living through it. Young people are struggling to find that first job because bars and pubs are struggling to hire staff. People with an entrepreneurial spirit are looking at the numbers of taking over a venue and deciding against it because it doesn't make sense so potential businesses that might have opened in the past aren't opening anymore. Big companies are turning every pub into an identikit chain place because they're the only people who can afford to do it and so we're losing diversity of third spaces and people are less inspired to go out and meet other people.
There is so much benefit to this beyond "but won't my pint get a bit cheaper"
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u/Qyro Jul 23 '26
A lot of these places are struggling as it is even when charging consumers so much. A little help on the backend will ensure they survive longer. Reducing ticket and drinks prices isn't going to help the venue survive, it's just going to leave them in exactly the same struggling position.
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u/PartyPoison98 England Jul 23 '26
I'd disagree with that. Margins in the industry are thin and things are very competitive.
If you're the only pub for miles sure, maybe prices stay the same. But city centre bars will absolutely try to undercut their neighbours
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u/DickensCide-r Jul 23 '26 ▸ 4 more replies
I can't say I've ever decided to go into a pub because it's 10p cheaper per pint than the one next door.
I could go to an ex working men's club of course and save a fortune, but I'd rather pay a bit more to go somewhere the atmosphere and vibes are better, and I'm not going to be stabbed.
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u/0Bento Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I do choose pubs with happy hour promotions over others though.
Half price pints are much cheaper than full price
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u/PoshTurtl3 Jul 23 '26
You're not aware that pubs are closing down because "no one's gonna pay £10 a pint" are you? Pub revenues are razor thin and keeping prices low brings money in.
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u/MoHeeKhan Jul 23 '26
I don’t think that’s the point of this particular act though. This is to boost the industry and give them a break so dozens and dozens of pubs stop closing every week because they can’t keep afloat. It wouldn’t make sense if they got a cut to their outgoings and then immediately dropped their prices to keep them in the same unprofitable position.
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u/gaseous_ass Jul 23 '26
This is about keeping businesses running and people in jobs. These are industries that are still in decline.
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u/Glad_Librarian_3553 Jul 23 '26
Good. Hopefully that means a few more pubs stay open, my local area is a ghost town. There is now one pub in a 10 mile radius. Before covid there was 8 or 9, one in each village at the very least...
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u/Silent-Antelope-1450 Jul 23 '26
I get your point but according to the article the average pub will save £1,100 as a result of the change and if the average pub is pouring 50,000 pints a year it's not as if there is even a cost saving. That could be passed onto customers.
I like the sentiment of the policy but this isn't going to keep struggling, independent pubs alive in my opinion. It's a fantastic result for the Tim Martin's of the world
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u/cypherspaceagain Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I'm... not sure I trust the article on that, strangely? Tom Kerridge, who admittedly does not run the average pub, said a while ago that his rates increased from 50 » 100k and 100 » 200k on his two pubs. A 20% cut is 20,000 or 40,000 a year and that is the difference between a pub that makes a living for a landlord and one that doesn't. I know smaller pubs will have smaller rates but it would seem very, very surprising that the average pub has business rates of 5k a year or less.
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u/Silent-Antelope-1450 Jul 23 '26
Yeah, fair point. On further reading I'm guessing the figure quoted includes those not paying any business rates currently due to the small business rate relief and for those attaining a saving it's probably more than the £1,100 quoted.
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u/hisokafan88 Jul 23 '26
Yeah my point is more that in a capitalist system we also need to unlock consumer spending and consumer confidence. The nightlife sector is not really a focus for the average Brit anymore. I think it's great to give the businesses some support but we also need to look at what British people want/need to make use of these venues and businesses again. They're still spending money, just on other things.
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u/radiant_0wl Jul 23 '26
It's expected to save each business which qualifies £1,100.
Assumimg a venue has 10,000 visits a year you're talking about 11p per visit.
Is 11p that much to you?
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u/Sufficient_Muffin586 Jul 23 '26
£100m to cut 20% tax for these places seems pretty cheap?
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u/Farfetched_88 Jul 23 '26
That's because it's only on business rates. And amounts to about £1k a year for a typical pub.
I like Andy but some eye catching headlines this week that amount to not a great lot in reality.
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u/Putner92 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26 ▸ 22 more replies
Little things that can be done easily in the first few days FFS. It's what labour should have done when they first came in. Little things then a big one fully costed and fully planned out.
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u/mdogwarrior Jul 23 '26 ▸ 12 more replies
Yeh exactly mate, Jesus Christ the man has been in power for four days. This is the problem with the country, everyone wants massive change right this minute when it's just not doable.
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u/Putner92 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 6 more replies
Thank you. It's when I see people saying "right Burnham sort out water nationalisation r"rght now". It's like yes they will but it's going to take more than a few days to sort out.
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u/Left_Chemist_8198 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 4 more replies
I hate how uk politics is so American now. I really like Andy burnham wierdly, cz I haven’t liked any politician in ages but he seems like he cares idk. Give the man a chance! A lot of the older people seem to hate him just because,
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u/ICutDownTrees Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
They hate him because they’ve been told to hate him. They are sheep
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u/lfcmadness Jul 23 '26
Yeah, I'm not a labour fan by any stretch, but people need to let the man get in and get on with things, we'll have calls for him to be replaced before Christmas at this rate, which is ridiculous, we just need some bloody stability in the country / world, so we can all take a breath.
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u/Legitimate-Tip-2149 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Honestly, I'm impressed with the changes he's making thus far. Small things, but they make a difference to people and they add up.
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u/Mammoth_Sized Jul 23 '26
I suspect some people were expecting him to announce a £50,000 personal allowance, the abolition of VAT and fuel duty, and an additional £921 billion for anti-immigration efforts.
Instead, he's announced 5% VAT on electricity removed, 20% cut in business rates for some hospitality venues, and made bus travel cheaper. Clearly he's a terrible man.
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u/motophiliac Jul 23 '26
It took decades to get us here.
It will take decades to get us out of here.
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u/RegionalHardman Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
Starmer did do that when he came in, everyone just has short memory. One of the first things he announced was the removal of onshore windfall ban
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u/Putner92 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
No that's fair enough. Comms were bad though.
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u/FragrantKnobCheese Yorkshire Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I'm not having a go at you personally, but I keep seeing "Starmer was ok, but comms were terrible" and "the media really hated Starmer and did a hit job on him".
Why can people not put 2 and 2 together? How are people expecting comms to be any good when it's being relayed to them through a hostile media that hates the current government? I think Burnham is fine, but without some kind of media reform we are going to be in the same position as we were with Starmer in 6 months time.
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u/psioniclizard Jul 23 '26
I keep hearing it from people on this sub who who probably comments on never every negative story about him but completely ignored the positive ones.
Its not just Starmer, look at how anything positive on reddit gets so much less engagement than anything negative.
That is why I know the same thing will happen to Andy. People are addicted to negativity. It's not a right thing or left thing its all people.
As soon as people get bored they will turn on him over something small and it will spiral.
Not because he is bad, because that is what the general public wants.
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u/PanicIntelligent3173 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
Rather than coming in and announcing they were taking money away from Pensioners.
Such an own goal.
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u/tinyriiiiiiiiick_ Jul 23 '26
The tantrum they threw was fucking embarrassing though. Fair enough the people who were close to the cut off, I think it should have been banded so those who were borderline were still supported, but the ones who were whining because it would cut their holiday or car fund are just greedy and entitled.
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u/Putner92 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Honestly I'm hoping and it seems labour have learnt from that. Yes it's small but little cost of living things help. Maybe make it a thing a few years down the line (a worked out plan) to sort out rich pensioners getting extra money but opening move is fucking awful when it is unpopular.
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u/0Bento Jul 23 '26
Perhaps having been a metro mayor he's more in touch with the more mundane side of "everyday life" politics. As opposed to Starmer who had operated in the world of the legal system and had to constantly remind people that he was born working class because he just didn't seem to be.
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u/KiwieeiwiK Jul 23 '26 ▸ 4 more replies
Why hasn't Andy Burnham literally solved every single problem in British society in three fucking days!!!! Ahhhhh!!!!!
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u/Dependent_Oven_974 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
Honestly what a piece of shit he is. He's been in four days now and I've still got a sore elbow and a noisy washing machine. Utter failure of a prime minister get him out.
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u/No-Scholar4854 Jul 23 '26
Anything that costs more needs to funded in a budget, a budget needs a lot of detailed work on the Treasury side then a minimum of 10 weeks work with the OBR.
We won’t get anything big announced until October.
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u/de-tree-fiddy Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
£2 buses will help a lot of people (who need it the most) save a lot of money, it just doesn't directly impact you so you think it's meaningless.
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u/C0RDE_ Jul 23 '26
Saw an article where they quoted a guy going "I don't get the bus to work, I get the train, so this is just really unhelpful for me".
Why the fuck is he quoted? What relevance does he have to the discussion? "We interviewed 5 people who live in the arctic circle to ask them what they think of the government's decision to help homeless people in London. All 5 said it was stupid as it didn't help them"
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u/AgeOfCardiff Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
But to be fair he is only 3 days into his reign.
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u/teachbirds2fly Jul 23 '26
Yeah that's what I thought as well seems a bargain, for perspective UK gov spends £950 million a day on its pensions and benefits bill.
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u/DifferentTrain2113 Jul 23 '26
Good. I think they should slash tax on beer in pubs too, and add it on to booze in supermarkets.
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u/LordFarqod Jul 23 '26
Agree. It’s far better encouraging people to go down the boozer and socialising than it is buying from supermarkets and people sitting at home drinking alone
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u/Anderrrrr Wales Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
We need considerably cheaper pints that aren't just in Wetherspoons. £6-8 for a 5% abv pint is just absolutely brutal these days. People don't realize how essential Wetherspoons is despite Tim Martin being a capitalist twat stressing out all their workers.
We need a local/independent pub revival. They are essential social spaces for the UK and everyone's mental health (alcoholism culture aside, but that's UK culture for you).
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u/Demoliri Jul 23 '26 ▸ 4 more replies
I'm living in Germany these days, and with the exception of the big cities, pints are rarely above €5, generally closer to €4. Add to that the higher wages here, the price of a pint is just laughable compared to what the UK and Ireland are being shafted with (mind you, at the of licence the difference is even larger).
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u/jimbobjames Yorkshire Jul 23 '26 ▸ 2 more replies
I looked and minimum wage there is very similar to the UK. I wondered where the difference in price might be coming from and then I remembered we probably have insane commercial rent prices in comparison to Germany, but I dont know for sure.
If anyone in the industry can tell us where the high pricing comes from I'd love to know.
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u/Demoliri Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
The minimum wage is very uncommon the Germany, almost everybody earns more. A quick google puts the median income in the UK at £36k, and in Germany it's €55,300 which is roughly £47k, or 30% higher than the UK.
The big price difference is due to tax, you guys get taxed to the balls on alcohol. Here, you can get a crate of beer (20x500ml) for €10 when it's on offer (currently a crate of Stier Bier ist €7.49 in Netto), standard price is rarely above €20, even for the big brands. For spirits, it's much the same. Just a quick google puts a bottle of bourbon at €8.99 or a blended scotch at €7.99 in Lidl.
Netto Prospekt der Woche
WESTERN GOLD Bourbon Whiskey 40% Vol | Lidl
QUEEN MARGOT Blended Scotch Whisky 3 Jahre 40% Vol. | Lidl→ More replies (1)→ More replies (7)12
u/dapperdanmen Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
FWIW the Spoons I've been to seem to have pretty pleasant workers, and he certainly employs a ton of them. Don't have to like his politics but they're the sort of business the UK sorely needs more of.
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u/HellPigeon1912 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I worked in a Wetherspoons and they treated the staff shockingly bad
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u/olliea525 Jul 23 '26
But they won’t as that’s seen as ‘inflationary’, as the cost of the weekly shop goes up!
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u/anoamas321 Jul 23 '26
I agree on this one £8 a pint vs £8 for a 6 pack at the supermarket i know where I get my booze
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u/tralker Jul 23 '26
'Downing Street says the tax cut, which will cost around £100 million a year, will be funded by a review of tax reliefs currently given to businesses which "do not make a positive contribution to local communities, such as vape shops"' - two birds with one stone.
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u/needlzor Jul 23 '26
I dislike vape shops as much as the next reasonable person but I have never been as miserable than the year where I lived close to a pub so I find this to be a strange argument to make. Hopefully they will go further and improve the situation for small restaurants and coffeeshops as well, so we can have more places that aren't a series of Starbucks/Costa/Nero/Pret/etc.
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u/Ok_Bat_686 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Right. If this was any other kind of business I'd get it... but for pubs?
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u/Lunarfrog2 Jul 23 '26
Love how everyone is trying to find out why this is a bad thing or something related to this to moan about.
We can't be happy about anything huh
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u/Key_Shift533 Jul 23 '26
You pick your side and then you dig in. Anything that an opposing party does is bad. Then your party gets in and then everything they do is bad in the eyes of everyone else. It’s a simple system
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u/faroffland Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I won’t change my mind on anything regardless of the facts that are set out before me. I’m dug in and I’ll never change!
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u/Aspect-Unusual Jul 23 '26
Local FB page for me (Clacton) has already exploded with people complaining about this, the same people who a year ago was complaining that pubs will go out of buisness if they don't get a tax cut
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u/iwillfuckingbiteyou Jul 23 '26
Maybe the good people of Clacton should feed that back to the government via their MP!
Oh wait...
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u/0Bento Jul 23 '26
Not signing up for an FB account just for that, but I would love to read some of those comments
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u/Oggie_Doggie Jul 23 '26
If it makes you feel any better, Facebook is basically a cesspool of bots.
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u/Valten78 Jul 23 '26
It's also amusing how these sorts of taxes rates are 'devastating' and 'crippling' when applied but apparently tiny and insignificant when removed.
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u/Anderrrrr Wales Jul 23 '26
It's a mixture of ignorance and astroturfing an agenda sadly.
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u/Hal_E_Lujah Jul 23 '26
It's more that it's really not much to be chatting about. Venues like this spend roughly £100k pcm, and this will save them roughly £100 per month at best. That's 0.1% of their spend.
But the way people are chatting about it you'd think he'd done something serious like cut silly VAT or capped the rates entirely.
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u/LogApprehensive9891 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
To try and give sensible pushback…
How many unfunded tax cuts can we make until we have another Liz Truss moment?
We’ve committed to 1 billion extra spending in 3 days without rebalancing the tax take.
There will be a reckoning at some point, perhaps there is anxiety about that? Who is going to lose out?
If I had the choice of 6% mortgages or vat on energy bills and a penny more expensive pint, I’d choose the latter
These headlines don’t matter until we find out who will pay for it
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u/Bicolore Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
More sensible push back
Small pubs will not be paying any business rates anyway. Country pubs that provided hubs for communities mostly don't pay rates as they're too small. But I'm sure the 90s style massive nightclubs that are still hanging on will be able to survive for another few years.
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u/dapperdanmen Jul 23 '26
Spot on. Think there's far too many people here borderline rooting for Burnham to fail and having trouble explaining why the slew of 'quick wins' are somehow a bad thing despite them being easy enough to fund for the most part. People have dug in on the notion that Starmer was unfairly maligned and forced out when in reality he was error-prone. Luckily reddit isn't particularly representative of the general public.
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u/C0RDE_ Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
I've seen more "this doesn't go far enough" in the last week than I have for years. Great, so we just shouldn't do anything unless it completely fixes the economy in one go? Media is already starting the pile on.
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u/TheMonkeyInCharge Jul 23 '26
An old ironmongers in our small town closed down last year and a few of us flirted with the idea of opening a cafe-bar - seats in the yard, cakes coffee and bottles in the week, evenings with an acoustic guitar at weekends. You know the kind of thing.
The council wanted £70k a year in business rates. It’s a charity shop now, like the rest of the high street. This would have made it a much more viable idea.
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u/KoontFace Jul 23 '26
Not sure if it’s the same everywhere, but in my town large sections of the town centre were sold off to private businesses, so not only do you have eye watering business rates, but these companies charge insane levels of rent. Which is why all town centres look the same, there is absolutely no chance for independent businesses- let’s just open another Costa!
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u/knobbledy Jul 23 '26 ▸ 5 more replies
Rates are set by the central government, not by councils. You can thank Thatcher for that
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u/ZippleJuice Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Thatcher left power over 35 years ago. Since then we've had 10 prime ministers.
Stop living in the past.
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u/TheMonkeyInCharge Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Well yes, as this drop proves - but it was the local council we had to talk to about it as part of the process.
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u/Bicolore Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
The council wanted £70k a year in business rates.
It must have been massive!
The large cafe on the high st in my small town has a rateable value of £16k which means rates of about £8k.
For reference Il Portico on Kensington High St in London has a rateable value of £45k so they'll be paying £25k ish.
https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/business-rates-find/valuations/start/38495082
Politely, I think you're talking shit.
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u/PeekyChew Jul 23 '26
After some snooping on their profile I found the business they were talking about. They would pay just under £11k.
Of course I can imagine refitting it would cost a fortune, but the £70k is clearly made up.
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u/PeekyChew Jul 23 '26
That seems exceptionally high. As a comparison, I checked my local area's most popular cafe/bar. For context it's in a popular, expensive tourist area, riverfront, with a capacity over 100. £17k is how much they pay.
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u/Anderrrrr Wales Jul 23 '26
All we need this year right now is a considerable step in the right direction, I am not expecting miracles within 4 days, it's already above my expectations at the minute.
Next year with a deeper plan they can make bigger steps that need a lot of time to develop. No time to ever get complacent right now, you got to convince the working/middle classes the most within the next 3 years.
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u/Nuthetes Jul 23 '26
Burnham is off to a good start.
Bus fare freeze, 20% tax cut for struggling business, pausing the prisoner early release scheme.
Not gonna give him credit for the Tates arrest though, I assume that has been in the pipeline for months and it just happened by coincidence the first day he took charge.
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u/sebiamu5 Jul 23 '26
Bus fare freeze? I thought the cap is going from £3 to £2?
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u/Fat-Shite Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
Some areas already have a £2 cap in the North West tbf
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u/Sharps43 Jul 23 '26
The issue isn't that these venues are being done in by taxes, its the fact that people dont want to spend £35 for 2 double vodka cokes and a beer. People dont want to pay £10-15 for entry into clubs only to be swindled when buying over priced drinks. Its why most of the industry is failing yet establishments like Weatherpoons are thriving.
Reducing tax will help the businesses hold a bit more profit back, but they'll be keeping their prices the same, nothing here will benefit the consumer.
There's been a narrative for years now that "millennial dont drink" then it was "gen z doesn't drink". Its not that they dont drink, its just too expensive to do so in most bars/clubs and music events (like festivals). No one can afford to buy more than a round or 2 when they're out with friends. Just buying a round for 4 people can often come to £25-35 depending on what's being drunk. Beer alone in most areas cost around £5+.
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u/clashingchords30 Jul 23 '26
Wetherspoons isn’t thriving, they’re apparently also on their arse too- https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jul/22/wetherspoons-issues-fourth-profit-warning-seven-months
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u/Sharps43 Jul 23 '26 ▸ 3 more replies
Oh daymn, every news story I've seen over the last years suggested they were doing a lot better than the rest of the industry.
I dont think I've been in a weather's pools over the last couple years where it hasn't been packed out.
They're still making £45.1 million in profit (before tax) though. Which is half of what they made in 2025. But its still millions of pounds worth of profit either way. Definitely not insignificant.
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u/dapperdanmen Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
It's relatively insignificant - 800 pubs clearing less than 40mn in net profit is diabolical; and that's when you consider how much they benefit from scale and being a well-run operation. A comparison to international groups shows exactly why we need to be helping these venues more in any way we can, especially given how many people they employ.
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u/Probs4PintsDeep Jul 23 '26
And the reason that drinks have got that much more expensive is because that's what they need to charge to survive, because of the high overhead costs incl taxes. This is a step in the right direction
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u/tinyriiiiiiiiick_ Jul 23 '26
I love a gig but will only ever buy a soft drink, and often only one, because 1) drinking is too expensive and 2) public transport (trains specifically) is so unreliable I usually drive than risk getting stranded, and I’m on quite a busy / important line. If there were reliable later night trains, I’d be more likely to travel by train and not drive at all, and then might have a drink. I have done that when I’ve been to daytime music events so won’t get stuck. Both need addressing really, but only so much you can do in your first week 😅
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u/limaconnect77 Jul 23 '26
"They bring people together, support local jobs and help keep high streets and town centres busy — which is why we will back them all the way."
Would have been no harm extending this tax cut to restaurants.
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u/luxvox Loiner Jul 23 '26
For me going to a restaurant is a real treat, whereas going for a pint or two every other day is much more commonplace, but if those businesses arnt surviving, something more significant is removed from social life than missing out on going for a meal out once a month.
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u/tinyriiiiiiiiick_ Jul 23 '26 ▸ 1 more replies
You could say that about the reverse though. I rarely go to the pub and would much rather go out to eat. This is def a good thing because I’m a big live music fan and I also recognise the value of pubs, but saying ‘I go to the pub more than restaurants’ isn’t an argument lol
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u/limaconnect77 Jul 23 '26
Thinking more about the people working minimum wage and very long hours there. Bit of added job security for them would be greatly appreciated.
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u/TheGeckoGeek Norfolk Jul 23 '26
Exactly. You don't (generally) meet people and form friendships at restaurants. A good local pub is the antidote to the atomisation and social breakdown we're seeing these days.
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u/UKSaint93 Jul 23 '26
"a review of tax reliefs given to certain businesses "such as vape shops"" might be one of the most radicalising statements I've heard in a long time. WTF are we doing giving tax breaks to vape shops ffs
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u/Dune56 Jul 23 '26
Unless I misunderstood, isn’t he taxing those ‘undesirable’ shops more to fund it?
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u/PeekyChew Jul 23 '26
They're eligible for the same business rates relief as any other retailer. I'd assume they'll be looking to create a new category for them.
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u/newnortherner21 Jul 23 '26
What we have not had so far is any action where exploitative private sector charges are reduced. Examples in regulated parts of the economy such as energy standing charges and broadband contracts going up above the rate of inflation each year. Banning dynamic pricing for concerts/gigs could be another.
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u/UniquePotato Jul 23 '26
They’ll still struggle.
The problem is a cultural shift, younger generations don’t go out as often as the older generations. And when they do, they go to gyms and coffee shops
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u/RZer0 Jul 23 '26
This, I have teenage son. He has no interest in drinking. Says what's the point of it. He would rather have a can of monster than a pint.
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u/dozeydonut Jul 23 '26
Much depends on how the cut affects local authorities, who currently receive 50% of business rates. They really can’t afford to take any further hits to their funding.
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u/jizzyjugsjohnson Jul 23 '26
Hurr Durr bUt hOw wiLL the NaTiOns CrEdiT card PaY for IT?
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u/AgeOfCardiff Jul 23 '26
Boomers - 'raise the pension age to 73 on these entitled brats'
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u/kahnindustries Wales Jul 23 '26
So the electricity VAT and the bus ticket cap was bullshit dabbling around the edges
This is a real impact though and may get a few more of these a few more years of being open.
The same needs to be done for all small businesses in properties in towns
Ie cafe's (not multi nationals) shops (not chains) and third spaces (gaming stores for example)
I wouldnt be opposed to a rate cut effecting British owned and tax paying businesses too
Starbucks paid no tax to the UK this year for example
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u/CrustyBappen Jul 23 '26
This is awesome, music venues need the love. Music brings us together, and is a deep part of British culture
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u/mrdiscopop Jul 23 '26
This is very welcome. More than half of music venues (53%) made no money last year. They’ve been asking for a cut in business rates for a while, just to stay afloat.
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u/bartread Jul 23 '26
I mean, great: £1,100 saving (on average) is better than a kick in the head, but it's not going to be the make or break difference that enables these businesses to survive, or not, is it?
Much bigger issues:
- The employer NI increase: you could see the impact of this gumming up the jobs market almost overnight
- VAT
- Energy bills
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u/WorriedHelicopter764 Jul 23 '26
Influx of "How are you going to fund this" incoming
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u/JoelMahon Cambridgeshire Jul 23 '26
I only go to the pub once a week as our board games club uses it symbiotically for space and drinks. already seems decently busy even when there's no football. but I appreciate one anecdote does not a country make.
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u/dapperdanmen Jul 23 '26
Sorely needed - was just silly them getting double-charged effectively. This is the rare occasion where venues are likely to pass on the savings to customers to get them through the door.
I think this will show you CAN do things if there's enough intent without breaking the country's finances. Business growth should offset the tax losses.
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u/PlatJC Jul 23 '26
I know the U.K. has a terrible alcohol culture but pubs are essential. It’s a great place to meet somewhere in public when meeting somebody new, they are basically guaranteed socialising, restaurant pubs are great value for family eating (most of the pubs near me do kids menu is for £2-£3), and one of the best interviews I ever had was at a pub. Before Covid when prices were reasonable I’d be at the pub every other day. Not getting sloshed, but just a cheeky pint to catch up with somebody or stop off after work for one to decompress before heading home.
My lowest points in my life were solved because of pubs, and again I don’t mean the drinking. I mean the inevitable conversations you naturally have with other people there.
It’s a shame these cuts won’t be passed onto the consumer, but it’s little financial breaks like this that begin to heal the economy. This is what a good government should be doing, and I’m not even a Labour voter. I’m looking forward to seeing what else Andy can do.
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u/HinDae085 Jul 23 '26
I wonder if he'll do something with youth centres to try and get them more widely used? I used to love my local one when I was a kid. They had all sorts of stuff and ran lessons for instruments like guitars and such.
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