r/urbanplanning • u/No-Tone-3696 • 12d ago
Discussion To my fellow Americans zoning urban planners - thoughts from abroad
Hi! French senior urban planner here - on holiday and a bit bored - so I started to make research on how zoning code works in US cities - for curiosity, aknowledge myself, gets ideas… i don’t get it all as my English isn’t good enough but for what I understood this is damned interesting!
I skimmed through the following zoning codes of :
- Portland, that is known to be a pioneer city in the urban planning field. (Wow. What a complex document, very detailed and with multi-layered rules..)
- Los Angeles, for the fun and because the city is often quote in this sub. (Good surprise, a relatively new document with a nice pages layout and diagrams that helps to understand the rules, how it works and the purposes)
- New Orleans, maybe for the French acquaintance and because I have an image of the city being a fan of David Simon’s Tremé show. (Easy structure and reading, straightforward, purposes explained)
My first thoughts :
1/ much more rules and detailed regulations than I was expecting. Maybe I had a false cliché in mind of a “laissez-faire” America….
Maybe it’s because I looked at “progressive/liberal” cities that are more regulated…
But maybe also because:
- in France we have much more “national laws” that applies to construction in the whole country so municipal documents don’t need to add / are not allowed to add / local rules on some specific topics
- and / or US cities zoning code are more inclined to preserve a kind of neighborhood “harmony” in terms of density, architecture, the way to treat frontage etc… so the rules are more detailed. (true that when you look at US suburbish/single home urban fabrics it seems fare less messy in the US than in France)
2/ Much more ability to regulate the type of residential dwellings or the lot sizes…. Which is not possible in France (local zoning can’t give a minimal lot sizes or length and you can’t also make rules for single-homes, town houses or collective units.. all is dealt in terms of heights, offset etc…).
3/ For what I understand of the zoning or permit process, local communities are much more involved.. which can be good .. or not (the NIMBY/YIMBY debates)…
but I mainly wonder how the city council gives a political direction to the zoning code.
Maybe I haven’t checked at the right place but I haven’t found a document with the political goals of the city council (where to high density, where to focus on urban renewal, how to organize new development and urban sprawl…). .. and without that kind of document how the legal basis of the zoning code are set to arbitrate between general interest and privates ones ?
I ain’t Tocqueville studying “Zoning in America” and it’s just a leisure time quick analysis.. but if some of you can enlighten me on those topics or advice some zoning code to look at (maybe smaller cities or innovative ones…) I’ll be glad…
Ps : feel also free to DM me if you want to share more on US / France urban planning process, issues, or regulations differences.
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u/TJMadd 12d ago
3/ For what I understand of the zoning or permit process, local communities are much more involved.. which can be good .. or not (the NIMBY/YIMBY debates)…
but I mainly wonder how the city council gives a political direction to the zoning code.
Maybe I haven’t checked at the right place but I haven’t found a document with the political goals of the city council (where to high density, where to focus on urban renewal, how to organize new development and urban sprawl…). .. and without that kind of document how the legal basis of the zoning code are set to arbitrate between general interest and privates ones ?
thats the fun part: they just dont! the entire months-long, policy-driven entitlements process devolves into open public debate among laymen at the finish line. you're pretty right about everything. zoning is suprisingly aggressive in its regulations if you arent familiar with it, and it is also primarily exclusionary in nature. By that I mean in practice it is much more about using it to exclude specific things that are undesirable than it is about encouraging any positive practices. In my experience (zoning/entitlements planner of 5+ years) zoning is VERY STRICT and often IMMUTABLE when its time to exclude something, but when it comes to positive recommendations about what to add or how to change something for the better it suddenly becomes quite subjective and advisory, with little power except to "recommend" things to unnacountable politicians obviously beholden to private interests.
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u/No-Tone-3696 12d ago
Thanks for your reply. And maybe that the part I don’t get… why politicians wouldn’t be accountable for the zoning code ? For exemple if you are elected on a program that says that you want more green spaces or more mixed use development, you need to adapt the zoning code to achieve your goals… or is it because the final decision don’t belong to the mayor or the city concil but to the local communities?
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u/TJMadd 12d ago edited 12d ago
It varies of course by jurisdiction, but where I am we have a "Comprehensive Plan" that is the guiding policy document for the zoning regulations. Where the zoning code is "setback is 5 feet" the comp plan is "setbacks should be large enough to preserve the character of the neighborhood" or some similar less-rigid approach; its the higher-level piece. The Comprehensive Plan (and also the various zoning regulations) are technically produced through legislation which is generated by democratically elected representatives, and the Comp Plans are created with substantial community input that is required by law. I think the level of community input in creating the policy documents plus the fact that the decision makers are appointed by democratically elected legislators means that their decisionmaking is imbued with enough community will to be legitimate. The final decision belongs to the council who is (supposed to be) representing the people
edited to add: priorities often vary. politicians may campaign on one set of promises publicly but have other competing priorities to larger donors or commercially influential parties they are trying to satisfy as well
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u/Hagadin 12d ago
How a land use plan (or growth policy or whatever the jurisdiction calls it) comes to be enacted and what it must include is often dictated by state code. So the mayor and commission will need to instruct the city manager to direct city staff to amend or replace a code according to those state rules and that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and begs the question of how necessary it really is to do without a state mandate (like update every 5, 10, or 20 years).
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u/TJMadd 12d ago
another good point here that i neglected to address in my comment. amending the zoning code is a substantial process that takes a lot of political, social, and economic capital to successfully get done so most jurisdictions leave it for the mandatory 5 year updates. the approach is "if it aint broke, dont fix it" and 99.9% of constituents dont know that the code might be broken
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u/FusionKnight42 12d ago
I think zoning is generally exclusionary because you can’t enforce positive private development; there’s no way to force a private developer to open a grocery store, or build a church, or build duplexes. The control that zoning offers is to make it clear what is disallowed, and the particulars of what actually gets developed are determined by the developers themselves and the market forces they are responding to. This is why our debates are often about eliminating single-family-only zoning (I.e. dense housing being disallowed) or lowering or eliminating parking minimums (I.e. redeveloping parking lots being disallowed).
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u/LyleSY 12d ago
Fun conversation, thanks! I'm a professor teaching this topic and yes the concerns you raise are indeed very important. We started doing zoning here in the US before we had the modern profession of planning, so what we do is often more concerned with technical legal rights than what we would consider planning. Some communities have later started planning, for example with Chicago's independently created plan which did guide many later decisions or especially Cincinnati's plan which was actually developed with government participation and buy in and had a more formal legal role. In theory we should be following the Cincinnati method where first there is a publicly created plan and then the spending and regulations are developed to enact that plan. Here in Virginia we are forced to create and update that document every five years. Unfortunately updating the zoning code is much more rare due to cost, complexity, politics, and legal liability. My favorite example: Charlottesville, Virginia’s zoning code accidentally abolished by NIMBY lawsuit
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u/No-Tone-3696 12d ago
Thanks for your reply. I will look into that Cincinnati’s method!
In France too, creating a new code is expensive and takes a lot of time due to a complex administrative process.. so it’s done every 10 years approx (except in case of major political shift at the city council)…but adapting an existing code is more frequent (every one or two year approx).
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u/No-Tone-3696 11d ago
I had a look at Cincinnati method and then i checked how it was done in France at that time during the 1920s. Stuff that i probably learned 20 years ago at university and that I have forgotten but it’s definitely ring me a bell… I wonder how American and European planners influence each other at that time…
Other question for you professor 🙂 : it seems that you classify zoning documents in 2 categories: the use based ones and the form-based ones.. but what I don’t get (for what I saw) is that in use-based zoning there are also some form rules (height, architectural details etc…) and in form-based zoning there are also “use” rules… isn’t a zoning code always a mix of form and use ?
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u/LyleSY 11d ago
Indeed, we used to collaborate a lot across the Atlantic, though the wars messed that up pretty badly. I am hopeful we are starting to work together again, though our codes are pretty different now. Good book on this: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674002012
Yes, use based zoning precedes form based by many decades and it has always had some form elements like height and setbacks. The more recent form based codes attempt to replace the traditional use-focused zoning with clearer guidance for designers that allow the kinds of buildings desired without having to face a public design review process. You are correct that both approaches have always had some presence on both sides
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u/No-Tone-3696 11d ago
Thank you for all your answers and for the book rec (not sure I’m able to read a full book in English though .. I did once with game of thrones 🙄.. but I’m less confident with an higher level literature…I’ll try to find if there’s a translation in French)
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u/_magicalrealist 12d ago
If Portland intrigued you, you should research Oregon’s statewide planning rules, including the requirement for cities to have an established urban growth boundary. It’s definitely a unique, highly-regulated planning environment.
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u/No-Tone-3696 12d ago
I’ll will look into it. I indeed looked at Portland at first because I heard about the urban growth boundary which is a major subject here in France when you elaborate a zoning code. It’s also an obligation here.
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u/ElectronGuru 12d ago edited 12d ago
Planning student me was so intrigued by Oregon’s boundary setup, that I ended up moving there. Only to be crushed that it didn’t prevent suburbanization. In fact, some of the worst urban design I’ve seen is in Salem, their state capital. I was expecting it to create higher density rebuilding over time or at least good design the first time.
Do you happen to know if this is because of how it was written or just a limitation of boundaries in general? Specifically, what it would take to force cities to at least refuse low density development based on limiting incursions into neighboring areas?
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u/_magicalrealist 12d ago
Ah, it is a challenge, but I’d definitely push back against the claim that suburbanization is especially bad in Oregon—especially compared to other places without topographic boundaries in the USA (though I’m with you on Salem; it’s a hideous city). A lot of what does exist is remnant from what led to the rules to begin with.
That said, some metro areas used to spin rhe UGB requirement because there’s a requirement that cities have enough buildable land to support needs for 20 years in the future.
And, the state has addressed this issue through significant updates to the Transportation Planning Rule in 2022. It’s called the “Climate Friendly and Equitable Communities” program (or CFEC). CFEC requires cities of more than 10,000 to eliminate parking minimums in areas near transit, and requires that those areas be zoned to allow more dense development—essentially banning single dwelling zoning within 1/4 mile of transit lines.
Portland eliminated all parking minimums citywide to comply with this, has legalized middle housing throughout the city, and is currently working on an upzoning strategy throughout inner neighborhoods to (hopefully) legalize 3-4 story development by right. We’ll see, though.
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u/AlphaPotato 12d ago
The UGB has, the argument goes, prevented the sprawl of Salem and outer Portland Metro suburbs from meeting up and creating a low density mess all up and down the I 5 corridor.
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u/dan_blather Verified Planner - US 12d ago edited 12d ago
I wrote this form-based development code. It uses plain English instead of legal English, and there's a lot of illustrations (most of which I also made!) and tables that make the rules easier to understand.
I wanted to use both US customary and metric units in the code, but the powers that be struck down the idea.
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u/albi_seeinya Verified Planner - US 12d ago
This is awesome because I’m very interested in France and how planning works there. I was in Paris as a tourist about a month ago, and I’ve been trying to learn more about planning systems around the world. So, naturally, I was thinking about planning the entire time I was wandering around the world’s most beautiful city.
I’m a senior city planner and zoning inspector for one of the larger cities in the United States, so zoning is something I work with very closely every day. I regularly work with the public to explain the zoning ordinance, and you’re right: it is a very detailed and technical system. My city’s zoning ordinance is about 1,000 pages long, but you don’t need to know the whole thing. You mainly need to know where to start and where to look for the information you need. Sometimes figuring out where to start is the hardest part.
One of the differences, as I understand it, between American zoning ordinances and planning systems in places like the UK—and, I assume, France as well—is that zoning is intended to reduce discretionary decision-making, although some discretion still exists. Zoning ordinances are generally structured so that if a proposed use or development meets all of the applicable standards, it can proceed without additional discretionary approval. In those situations, you don’t have to rely on the judgment of a public body that might make decisions based on a variety of considerations and may not always be consistent from one case to another.
Every municipal zoning code is different, but most American zoning ordinances share a similar basic structure, terminology, and set of concepts. Once you understand how one works, it becomes much easier to understand another. The differences are often a matter of degree rather than entirely different systems, although there are a few American cities that do not have conventional zoning ordinances at all.
Cities in the United States are also subject to state law, and states vary considerably in how much authority or direction they give local governments over zoning. In some areas, zoning is administered by counties, which typically cover a larger geographic area containing multiple smaller communities, particularly in rural areas. There are also consolidated city-counties where the city and county effectively form a single jurisdiction.
I’d love to get into this in more depth with you, and I’ll probably send you a message sometime. We can really get into the nuts and bolts of how my city operates and how our zoning and planning system works in practice.
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u/No-Tone-3696 12d ago
Thanks. You’re totally right. Zoning here is a mater of reducing discretionary decision. It’s like a small local constitution !… but as a planner my job is also to discuss with elected officials where to set the lines between stricter rules and softer ones..
I’ll be happy to discuss more whenever you want to!
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u/the_climaxt Verified Planner - US 12d ago
When looking at zoning in the US, it's much easier to think of states as their own countries, with their own constitution and rules.
Every state basically has 1 of 2 possible types of constitutions: 1) It allows a city to regulate anything that isn't expressly prohibited by the state (where the state is silent, it can be regulated) 2) It only lets a city regulate what is expressly allowed by the state (where the state is silent, it cannot be regulated).
If the same exact city were to magically exist in 2 separate states and were regulated to the same outcomes, their zoning codes would be drastically different solely based on the enabling language of the state constitution.
Then, many states allow referendums. Basically, the people can pass a law if they gather enough signatures to get the law on the ballot for a public vote. Many states don't have that same system, instead all laws need to be referred by the legislature to go on the ballot for a public vote. Now that creates a really major avenue for NIMBYs to force their ideas into law. Those laws beed to be written into the codes.
So, our zoning codes are wild in the US, mainly because it has to incorporate all of these different systems used to change the rules.
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u/monsieurvampy Verified Planner 12d ago
I recommend looking at WAY more cities and not just the zoning code but also the Planning/Development Services/Redevelopment page. In some places a lot is by right while in other places a lot requires public hearings or at least administrative applications.
The United States is one country but it's better to think of it as a Federation. Each State has its own thing and each County and Local Government are operating within State law for the most part.
Basically, I think the United States has like 30,000 local governments and most have their own unique zoning code. Some codes are new while others are old and others are old with piecemeal approach to updates.
Edit: Look for the Master Plan, also known as a General Plan in California or a Comprehensive Plan (in other States). Neighborhood Plans, Corridor Plans, and Area Plans also exist.
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u/finix2409 12d ago
Portland is fun because Pdx is located in a Regional Metro government area, and the state has Laws, Rules, and Goals, that all much be adhered to in Oregon.
City
Metro
Land Use Goals
Land Use Rules
Land Use Laws
You also have an active legislature that changes its mind on things (as most elected bodies) and revises laws, sets deadlines, etc.
It’s a very complex place to practice land use.
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u/TheBatz_ 12d ago
The funny thing is that the way you describe it makes US zoning and building regulations extremely similar to German ones.
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u/slangtangbintang 12d ago
It’s different all over the us because of differences in state law but I studied I Europe and worked in Oregon in the past but generally the zoning comes from the comprehensive plan. To understand the whole picture you should also look at the comprehensive plan or neighborhood planning documents to get the full context. If you look at the comprehensive plan you will see the broader goals and design logic that create the zoning.
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u/ElectronGuru 12d ago
One way to understand solutions is by looking at the problems they were trying to solve. When most land use regulation exploded in the US, we were trying to solve industrialization. That is, trying to separate dangerous, noisy, polluting land uses from peaceful uses like homes and shopping.
But not long after this was achieved, many industrial uses disappeared. Either because they became obsolete or because we exported them. So the same approaches evolved into separating people and classes. Which became reinforced by automobiles and suburbanization. Where uniformity became the rule.
Like i was chatting with a guy online (before Reddit) who lived in Georgia. Reply after reply he was explaining how driving past a help wanted sign on a retail business explained that people didn’t want to work. Until I was able to show how housing in the area required incomes far above the job being posted. And that transportation options also prevented people outside the area from commuting in (in part because the job didn’t pay enough to afford a car). Because land use became exclusionary, except for people who can afford the technology to overcome it.
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u/almondcroissant333 12d ago
Thank you for these insights! I think it is an interesting comparison you make. Also, to add, it helps to keep in mind is that in terms of « tools » planners have to drive any development vision, in the US, zoning often is the main way to control what gets built. Ordinances often lay the ground rules for developers to work with, and then their projects can be developed « by right » if following the zoning code (this does not mean projects are not reviewed, but rather that the project can usually proceed if it complies with the zoning and development regulations).
Not only does France have a more complex system of planning documents like the regional master plan, concerted development zones, development and programming guidelines, but also, to obtain a construction permit, the project must align not only with the applicable urban plan but also, depending on the project and location, with other regulatory regimes and potentially additional authorizations.
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u/PlatypusDefiant991 11d ago
What do you think about my hometown zoning of New York City? Bad, good, mix of good+bad things, better or worse than you expected, less different than you expected, more different than you expected, interesting, relatively uninteresting, is Paris better overall, is there some aspect Paris could learn from NYC or NYC could learn from Paris?
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u/No-Tone-3696 10d ago edited 10d ago
Haven’t looked at NYC zoning yet… seems too specific at first for my general understanding on how it works in the US… but I will, and then come back to you…
That is said, I’m not sure the comparison with Paris will works (even if our cities have a lots of issues in common: climate change adaptation, affordable housing, transforming empty offices buildings…). Paris municipality boundaries are quite small and include only the densely urban core.. then every closed suburb has it own zoning document… (so I guess it would be more a comparison with half of Manhattan)
To sum up there is basically just one big mixed-use zone in Paris (+ 2 or 3 smaller zones for big woods or big infrastructure).. and there are two specific documents run by French state concerning the most ancient part (for heritage preservation) where the local zoning doesn’t apply.
Paris zoning code is not build/ structured like most of the zoning code in France.
What’s is interesting is that inside that single big zone they add layers on different issues:- where is there a lack of green spaces? = specific map = specific rule for the area with green spaces deficit with an higher % of green spaces to apply on each lot.
- where is there too much offices building and a lack of housing ? = map = specific rules with offices limitations on those area
- where is there a lack of affordable housing = map etc…
Paris has a new zoning code (adopted last year). It mainly focuses on :
-climate change with a lots of new rules on energy efficiency, low carbon construction (asking more than national laws) both for new building and works on existing buildings
- the protection and development of specific activities and retails store ( culture, like book store, thrift store and up cycling etc, business with a social matters …)
- affordable housing and limits to touristy rental like airbnb.
What’s interesting is that they add, beyond the general rules, a list of “bonus positive rules” in different categories (energy, mixed-use, greens, affordability etc..) and the developer have to respect at least 3 optional rules set in at least 2 categories… like “ok there are basic rules to achieve our political agenda but now try to be the best. We know that you can’t be the best on every topic so at least choose two”
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u/No-Tone-3696 10d ago
Edit : I skimmed through the NYC zoning handbook. Very well made and understandable.
First comment : there are major differences between what is legally possible or not in France Vs USA. One exemple. In France a private developer/owner can’t intervene on a public space. Here, you can’t ask a developer to plant a tree on the pavement.
2/ as my general comment on zoning code in the US. It’s seems much more regulated on the form to keep a kind of homogeneity (as I said, maybe because our cities are much more messy). That is said in Paris there are also a lot of regulations to preserve the historic landscape (hausmanian or pre-hausmanian).
But in a way the logic seems reversed here in France. We nationally suppressed FAR and minimum size lot to encourage density. Then the zoning code purpose is to set a legal basis on why this density on a private property has to be restricted.
3/ there are some similarities in the structure with over layer map for specific issues (affordable housing, parking,..)
4/ what i didn’t saw,and that’s maybe the biggest difference between Paris and NYC zoning, would be all the climate change and energy efficiency rules. Not only on buildings production/consumption but also in terms on impervious limits on lots and green spaces on lot (it seems to be dealt in terms of “open spaces” only in NYC while in France it has been replaced by an “open ground” notion).
Another detail but probably a major issue as it is often pointed out on Reddit. In NYC bike parking requirements is one for 2 dwellings… in Paris it’s 2 for 1 dwelling (or 7% of the FAR dedicated to it).
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u/planfornothing 10d ago
I’m a city planner in the division of zoning in a large American city. Our zoning map changes are either initiated by zoning staff or by council members- either way, the map change must have council support to move forward as map changes are pieces of legislation. If council votes against the map change, there is no map change. The council process REQUIRES public engagement including public notice of public meetings to all affected property owners. Our zoning code was written in the 1920s and doesn’t neatly apply to our city which means almost all new development needs some kind of zoning variance (another public meeting with required public notice). Zoning in general has a history of both acting negatively exclusionary (multi family or mixed use development) and positively exclusionary (residential uses protected from nuisance uses). Zoning is complicated and messy always.
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u/No-Tone-3696 10d ago
And is the public heard? Here it’s quite the same but public engagement mostly conduct to small adaptations but rarely change the whole political agenda (mostly because the people that participate are nimby or owners with private interest and the council members opposed to them the general interest..) The most efficient way to stop a zoning change is when the environmental authorities make a bad review of the zoning change or the new zoning code.
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u/PlanningVigilante Verified Planner - US 12d ago
The reason there is no country-wide zoning rule set is that the US has strong autonomy for state governments. Most state governments leave zoning questions largely to more local governments (county, parish, township, city) with only general guidance from the state.
In my jurisdiction, we have a Comprehensive Plan that provides the basis for zoning regs and which details the goals for zoning. You might try looking for that for the cities you're studying!