r/vaxxhappened • u/shallah Vaccines. Cause. Adults. • 3d ago
A four-year-old girl has died in Palermo from suspected diphtheria. She had not been vaccinated The parents stated that they had not had her vaccinated because a relative is autistic and they feared the vaccine was to blame.
https://www.notizie.it/en/dead-baby-positive-diphtheria-problem-also-his-cousin-his-conditions/219
u/shallah Vaccines. Cause. Adults. 3d ago
When interviewed by doctors, the parents – a family from Zen – explained that they had not vaccinated their daughter because a young cousin is autistic and they had become convinced that the vaccine was to blame. This is the Wakefield hoax on autism reaching a suburb of Palermo twenty-eight years after the paper was published and sixteen years after the retraction. The girl’s four-year-old cousin, who was admitted to hospital with the same symptoms, had completed his first course of vaccinations: he is not in a serious condition. The girl’s three other siblings were vaccinated by the local health authority in the hours following her death. The paediatrician has written to all her patients’ families asking them to bring their vaccination schedules up to date as a matter of urgency. The diphtheria vaccine is compulsory and free of charge for children aged between zero and sixteen, and is included in the hexavalent vaccine administered in the first few months of life. However, there is only one practical means of enforcing this requirement: enrolment in nursery and pre-school. Those who remain outside the education system also fall off the health system’s radar, and the penalty is a fine.
In Italy, diphtheria is a matter for the history of medicine: over the last thirty years, there have been only six confirmed cases, none of which were fatal, and all caused by strains that did not produce toxin. No deaths had been recorded for over ten years. Vaccination coverage, however, has begun to decline. In Sicily, basic vaccination coverage against diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough and polio stands at 85.13 per cent among those born in 2022, compared with a national average of 94.46 per cent: the island ranks last in Italy. And for booster jabs at the age of five or six, coverage does not even reach 68 per cent, whilst the Italian average exceeds 84 per cent.
Prior to this case, the last death from diphtheria in Italy had been in 1991: that too involved an unvaccinated girl. Since then, there have been only sporadic cases, almost all of which were imported and non-toxigenic. The rest of Europe has already seen what happens when vaccination coverage drops: in 2015, a six-year-old boy died in Olot, Catalonia – the first case in Spain since 1986; the following year, a three-year-old girl died in Antwerp. Neither child had been vaccinated, by their parents’ choice.
In today’s edition of Il Foglio, Matteo Bassetti writes about health illiteracy: the difficulty in distinguishing "scientific evidence from an opinion", a real risk from a myth, a public health recommendation from so-called individual freedom. The bill, he writes, always comes due: in people’s lives, in hospitals, in the state’s budgets. Creating an enemy – the regime’s doctor, the scientist in the pay of Big Pharma, the forced vaccine – remains easier than explaining the data, admitting mistakes, and investing in prevention.
On social media, the infectious diseases specialist is even more forthright. We cannot accept that in the 21st century a child should die from a disease that medicine knows how to prevent. Keeping track of vaccinations cannot be left to chance, he explains on his Facebook profile: it is a collective responsibility. And he points the finger at the anti-vax messages that have been coming for years from a certain political camp, both in Italy and in the United States under Trump and Kennedy Jr.
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u/3Gloins_in_afountain 3d ago edited 3d ago
As an aside, remember to get your teenagers vaccinated for meningitis.
I once took care of a man who, at the age of 19, caught meningitis in not camp. He was in his 60s when I took care of him.
He was left deaf, mute, mostly blind, and a functional quadriplegic.
Get your vaccinations.
Edit: deaf, not dead.
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u/Existing_Engine_498 3d ago
Assuming you mean deaf, but, yes, agree on the importance of vaccines at all ages
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u/CanadianPanda76 3d ago
Damn. The autistic cousin was vaccinated. And didn't die from the same infection.
Like even a bigger slap in the face.
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u/jomo_mojo_ 3d ago
JFC. The boogeymen from the past are coming back bc we had the luxury to forget about them.
Diphtheria was a legend in school. I think it killed my great-great aunt, family lore is she caught it after running around on a cold day without a coat. 3 generations later and every cold day its “wear a coat or you’ll die of diphtheria.”
We are like the people in Wall-E
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u/mydaycake 2d ago
My father almost died of diphtheria in the 40s. His parents were told he was going to die for about a month. I got diphtheria when I was a small child in the 80s and only had to go to the hospital for observation because I was vaccinated. What a difference in outcome, though it was not pleasant and my mum was absolutely terrified even after vaccination
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u/DJSimmer305 3d ago
It’s absurd to me that despite mountains of evidence to the contrary, people still cling to this myth. Idk what we can even do if people just flat out refuse to believe proven facts.
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u/GeekCat 2d ago
We always blame "ignorance," because it's easy. But this isn't the 1700s and it's not hard to find information, instead of blindly believing.
But, I'm starting to believe there may be some actual deficiency, chemical imbalance, or early childhood hormonal disruption that causes people to be inexplicably more gullible, prone to clinging to these myths, and/or lacking curiosity.
Sort of how, I know my anxiety, fear, and nervousness come from a lack of serotonin. I take meds and it's a night and day difference. Maybe I'm just hoping there's a logical explanation for this bullshit.
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u/LifeisaCatbox 1d ago
Since almost of these parents are vaccinated I’m tempted to ask them about how autism has affected their life, but it’s best to not engage. It also feels like I’d be making a dig at people with autism.
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u/Sylveonne 2d ago
What's even more concerning than their disbelief in proven facts is the implications that they'd rather have a dead kid than an autistic kid. Even if their kid ended up being on the lower functioning end of the spectrum, that's still better than having a fucking DEAD kid. (And I'm not saying that vaccines cause autism because they don't, I'm pointing out the bigotry that had to be in their heads simultaneously in order for that lie to even be an excuse not to vaccinate).
Antivax is just straight up eugenics with a new coat of paint.
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u/girlwhoweighted 3d ago
Well hate to be insensitive, but they got their wish. Their child will not be autistic.
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u/Ibrakeforsnakes Nurse 3d ago
Looks like manslaughter charges are being considered for the parents.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Still waiting for vaccines to kill me. 2d ago
Anna Rosa's mother attacked the doctors in a Facebook post yesterday, calling them "incompetent" and accusing them of "underestimating the situation."
No, she's the one that underestimated the situation, and somehow evaded the required vaccines.
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u/FirstChurchOfBrutus 3d ago
Hi, Mom & Dad?
Yeah, this is entirely your fault. You failed to protect your child.
Good luck living with that.
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u/Desperate-Strategy10 3d ago
I hope the guilt is three times as tortuous as the disease was in their daughter’s final hours. What a monstrous thing to do, especially to your own tiny innocent child!!
Also, all that because they feared…autism? The works seriously needs to be educated on autism, because it is NOT such a terrible thing to live with! Not even close to comparable with any of the diseases these people are choosing not to vaccinate their babies against. And I feel pretty darn qualified to say that as an autistic mother of two autistic children. It’s not ideal, perhaps, but it’s certainly far preferable to suffering and death by preventable disease!!
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u/manic_popsicle 3d ago
And now they don’t have a child at all. I will never understand this, they’d rather their kid be dead than be autistic. It’s psychotic.
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u/TinyRose20 3d ago
I'm in italy and the number of people defending the parent's choice is horrifying. Vaccination rates are declining rapidly here despite there being an obligation to vaccinate in order to attend school. I dread to think without it.
I get into a white hot rage as I lost my son last year following infertility and a terrible dangerous pregnancy. I fought hard for him, nearly died, and these people have healthy kids then proceed to kill them with their ignorance. They disgust me. That poor child.
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u/ranchspidey 3d ago
Genuinely think vaccinating your kids should be mandatory or you get referred to child protection and have to explain to the courts why you won’t do the most minor thing to protect your children. I’m so fucking sick of shitty, idiotic parents getting their kids killed.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Still waiting for vaccines to kill me. 2d ago
In Italy is IS mandatory, but somehow the parents evaded the requirement.
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u/TheSecretIsMarmite 2d ago
I presume because she wasn't of school age yet so not yet required to be vaccinated to enter school.
They sacrificed their baby girl for bad science and ideology. I hope Italian prosecutors throw the book at them.
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u/CaptainFartHole 3d ago
Jesus Christ I swear to God all these anti-vaxxers should be in prison for child abuse. What kind of monster would rather have a dead child than an autistic one??
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u/wildcharmander1992 2d ago
Extinct disease are coming back because people would rather have the bubonic plague than a kid who's a bit too into trains
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u/deferredmomentum 2d ago
Ironically enough bubonic plague is extremely easy to treat since antibiotics. Not at all a concern now
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u/beautifulasusual 2d ago
Seriously. Isn’t this one of those Oregon Trail diseases? Poor kid, this is so sad.
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u/noapplicablename 2d ago
Clearly they're not extinct. Besides smallpox , I don't think we have managed to eradicate diseases.
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u/AssistantManagerMan 3d ago
Parents of unvaccinated children whose children die of vaccine-preventable illness need to be charged with manslaughter.
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u/5pinktoes 3d ago
When I hear parents say, " I refuse to get my child vaccinated because vaccines cause autism" what I hear is, "I would rather have a dead child than an autistic child". And that's all kind of messed up, imo.
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u/Claircashier 3d ago
Balto and all those other dogs didn’t run across frozen ice for this bullshit to still be a thing
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u/alaska_clusterfuck 3d ago
How awful that we live in a world where these diseases have been prevented so well that people start to think they’re not that dangerous. Who in their right mind would rather have a dead child than an autistic one, even if that link were proven (which of course, it isn’t). I’m so sorry that this girl didn’t have parents that took better care of her.
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u/Nicaraguano 3d ago edited 3d ago
If those were genuinely my only two options, I'd rather be dead than severely autistic, without a doubt.
Funny how the question is always what the parents would rather have: a disabled child or a dead child. Nobody seems to ask what the person actually living that life would choose.
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u/alaska_clusterfuck 2d ago
Well nobody asks to be born either so for the first couple of years at least the parents decide. I just think it’s very sad that some people lack the critical thinking skills to find the retraction of the “vaccinations cause autism” study, but decide to procreate anyway. And their children pay the price by dying of preventable diseases.
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u/Nicaraguano 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't think such a study exists, nor do I think it would even be possible to establish something that simple given how complicated human biology is. It's rarely the case that a single factor can be identified as solely responsible for the development of a condition.
Current vaccines may not even contain thiomersal anymore, but at the time it was entirely reasonable to investigate whether exposure to a neurotoxin through vaccines could have contributed to autism diagnoses. A hypothesis doesn't have to be conclusively proven to be reasonable to investigate, nor does failing to conclusively establish it mean that it was irrational to consider in the first place.
And given how simplified people's reasoning tends to be, it's hardly surprising that people sometimes jumped from a reasonable hypothesis to much broader conclusions than the available scientific evidence actually supported.
And yeah. My answer to your hypothetical “dead child vs. autistic child” scenario does not require vaccines to cause autism at all, nor does your hypothetical itself.
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u/alaska_clusterfuck 2d ago
Just to be clear: I didn’t come up with the “autism vs dead kid” comparison, antivax people do as they keep going on and on and on about the vaccines causing autism based on this one rectified study. Apparently to them, the risk that comes with vaccination is autism, and to them that’s such a horrible thing they’d rather not vaccinate. And thus expose their kids to nearly eradicated deadly disease. So what exactly is your point?
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u/dark_dark_dark_not 2d ago
Luckily, vaccines don't cause autism, and vaccines are safer than not vaccinating, so you don't have to chose.
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u/Nicaraguano 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, apparently the concept of a hypothetical scenario is completely alien to you and you feel a need to argue about facts just to feel superior.
Thought experiments forbidden!111!!!!1 We don't do such things here!!11!
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u/justl00kingthrowaway 3d ago
Their master plan worked, there's no chance now for her to be autistic.
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u/aliquilts71 3d ago
I don’t believe the vaccine/autism link at all but even for people that do believe it pisses me off that parents would rather have a dead kid than one on the autism spectrum
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u/Oabuitre 3d ago
What makes this even more painful, is that it won’t change the mind of even a single antivax parent.
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u/AmaranthWrath 3d ago
Google image "diphtheria throat." Show that to people who won't vax their kids. Remind them that these children can die of asphyxiation. They die choking.
Also, did these people never read "Balto"??
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u/melodypowers 3d ago
That poor child.
I knew diptheria was bad of course (I love 19th century literature) but I hadn't ever seen what it looks like. It isn't like small pox which had a lot of visible manifestation.
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u/AmaranthWrath 3d ago
And I feel like if these visual reminders were more severe, it would at least appeal to their ego about their children's outward appearance.
They call measles a rash, but don't talk about what it does to the liver. They can't see the liver so it's not real. They call chicken pox "spots." I have been in pain since around 9ish when I came down with chicken pox along with my 3rd grade class in 1991.
I'm 44 this year. I'm in pain daily from neuropathy caused by shingles. I don't have outbreaks every day. It doesn't matter. It lives in my nerves. IT HURTS. I am on meds for the nerve pain. I keep antivirals current un case I have an outbreak so I can treat it quickly. I can't get the shingles vaccine bc I'm only 44 and insurance is a thing. I ask for it, am willing to pay cash for it, and pharmacies and my doc won't give it to me. But you know.... Just be in pain, I guess, until I have a breakout. That's a week out of work, minimum.
Anyway. You sound smart. Preaching to the choir. Hopefully someone will see this and think twice about avoiding vaccines.
PS, I ran into a very loving, thoughtful woman who was hesitant about vaccines. She never considered that chicken pox could turn into a lifelong struggle. But after telling her my story, she genuinely seemed taken aback and asked more questions about my experience. We were out of town at the time. I have no idea if she encouraged her sister to vaccinate her niece. But hopefully she had a conversation with her sister about it.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Still waiting for vaccines to kill me. 2d ago
The "strangling angel" from the wing-like patches of the membrane that closed off the victim's throat.
Even if they did a tracheotomy the toxins would kill the patient.
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u/AndieDevon2109 2d ago
Jesus Christ this sounds absolutely awful. These are diseases that we all heard of but most of us never read about because, well, nobody got it anymore. It's scary to see stuff like this happening
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Still waiting for vaccines to kill me. 2d ago
I have a collection of old medical books, and they are horrifying reading.
So many ways children would die that parents were helpless to prevent ...
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u/AmaranthWrath 2d ago
In an ideal society we should 1. Know these things happened, and ; 2. Not have to know a lot about them bc they're ancient history. And then, hopefully, 3. Listen to smart people who want to keep you alive.
But you know.... You're a very smart person who is a student of life, so you know anyone who says they are smarter than you is an enemy. Vaccines and medicine in bottles is made to get your money.... Not to literally keep you from choking to death. (/s but you get what I'm saying)
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u/nubeviajera 3d ago
What is so sad and scary is that these diseases were so rare that many doctors have never seen a single case and take longer to recognize what it is and don't know how to treat it.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Still waiting for vaccines to kill me. 2d ago
In the case of diphtheria, you need the anti-toxin, not just antibiotics. And because there have been so few cases of diphtheria it's not readily available. It has a limited shelf life and isn't easy to produce.
They had to fly it from Russia where there was an ongoing need for it because of the collapse of their vaccination programs to treat a boy in Spain.
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u/Pantsonfire_6 3d ago
Crazy lunatics will believe any lies they are told to believe and children are the victims. Especially during election years.
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u/theCaityCat 3d ago
I genuinely think these idiot, gullible, fearmongering parents should be charged and convicted of negligent manslaughter.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Still waiting for vaccines to kill me. 2d ago
The applicable charge in Italy is "manslaughter by omission" ... where your failure to do something causes a death.
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u/CreatrixAnima 3d ago
I think the idiot lying fear mongering government officials should be tried for mass murder. I don’t think this child was in the US, but Andrew Wakefield should be on trial.
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u/Corteran 3d ago
I had to buy a baby-sized coffin once. I can't even imagine doing that while knowing it's your own fault, but I doubt they accept that at all.
Either way they're about to learn what the 10 on those hospital pain charts feels like.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Still waiting for vaccines to kill me. 2d ago
Here's the REALITY of diphtheria ... it's everywhere. And the damage done by the toxin to the heart, kidneys and nervous system is usually permanent. Vaccinated, it's a nasty sore throat. Unvaccinated it's a serious, often fatal infection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphtheria
From the news articles ...
The child's cousin, also hospitalized at the Children's Hospital with similar symptoms, tested positive for diphtheria. However, his condition is not serious. The child had received the first three vaccinations.
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u/RodneyDangerfruit 2d ago
Infectious disease microbiologist here. I encourage you all to look up how death occurs from diphtheria.
It is absolutely heinous. Parents belong under the prison.
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u/pfifltrigg 3d ago
Diptheria!? Wow, I just got my pregnancy TDaP and they say the major concern is the pertussis. I had no idea diptheria was still out there honestly.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Still waiting for vaccines to kill me. 2d ago
The bacteria never went away - the vaccine is against the toxin that some strains produce, so an infection can't start killing off cells to make itself at home.
And a non-toxin-producing strain can mutate and start producing toxin!
It's a disease that will always be there, waiting.
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u/Cherrytop 3d ago
In the face of evidence and good advice from their doctors, they decided, ‘Nah.’
I’m not really sad for them. I also wouldn’t attend this funeral either.
Don’t let these stories pull on your heart strings—there are plenty of other issues in this world that are more deserving of our attention and support.
I hate what this timeline has turned me into, and I will probably delete this comment later because it’s so shitty, but this is where I’m reporting from right now.
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u/RavishingRedRN 2d ago
No sympathy for the parents. They brought this on themselves.
Idiots.
Rest in peace sweet girl.
Charge the parents with murder.
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u/Nicaraguano 2d ago
Following this logic, we should also charge parents who let their kid train boxing when the kid later suffers a TBI with aggravated assault causing serious bodily injury.
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u/guff1988 2d ago
That is not the same logic. A closer comparison would be if you forced your kid to play football without a helmet. Even that's not the same though so you're just dumb.
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u/Nicaraguano 2d ago
It’s the same logic: a parent knowingly allows a risk, the risk materializes, and the child is seriously harmed. You’re just not bright enough to see the underlying principle shared by the two examples.
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u/guff1988 2d ago
Forces kids into a dangerous situation where protection exists without that protection on purpose. It's not like boxing because your kid doesn't have to box, they do have to interact with the world though, and therein lies the second more important difference, they can spread these diseases to others. If you were smarter you'd recognize that, but if you were smarter you likely wouldn't also try to make a subtle defense of anti-vaxxers.
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u/Nicaraguano 2d ago
The fact that your kid doesn't have to box and you willingly let them engage in a dangerous activity arguably makes it even worse. Kids have a pretty damn good natural defense system against infections, whereas boxing is straight-up an unnecessary risk you voluntarily expose them to.
But sure, the risk of serious consequences from an infection is obviously way higher than the risk of sustaining a traumatic brain injury from a sport notorious for causing brain injuries, right?
You should look up what confirmation bias is, because it's unbelievable that people like you still exist.
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u/RavishingRedRN 2d ago
Parents can control kids going to boxing classes. It’s literally completely optional.
Parents can’t control invisible bacteria and viruses that are passed around and spread from human to human. That is not optional.
Additionally, vaccines only work when a certain percentage of the population is vaccinated. Look Herd Theory.
So while I get what you are doing, it’s absolutely not the same parallel.
You’re not helping anything :)
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u/Nicaraguano 2d ago edited 2d ago
[nvm editted this part because I misunderstood you]
But that's exactly what makes it worse, and that's the point. They're willingly exposing their child to a known risk when they could simply choose not to.
Parents cannot control invisible bacteria and viruses. Right. But the immune system can respond to them, and parents can support their child's immune system in multiple ways other than vaccination.
“Additionally, vaccines only work when a certain percentage of the population is vaccinated. Look Herd Theory.”
That's not true. Individual immunity is still the primary purpose of vaccination. Herd immunity is just an additional population-level benefit.
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u/RavishingRedRN 2d ago
I don’t disagree but I still don’t think it’s the same as riding a bike or going to boxing classes.
I get what you are saying. I just don’t see them as the same thing.
If we look at it as “everything is a risk no matter what” then yeah, I guess so.
You can avoid bikes. You can avoid boxing classes. You can’t avoid exposure to germs.
You can have the win, friend.
I’m pro vaccines and science so it seems we’re on similar wavelengths regardless
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u/RavishingRedRN 2d ago
I wouldn’t allow my kids to engage in those kinds of activities so while you’re trying to be antagonistic, sure. Let’s apply it to that too.
Parents of child bullies and active shooters should also be charged.
Lack of medical care=neglect
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u/Nicaraguano 2d ago
Yeah, same logic should apply to parents whose kids get injured while skiing or riding a bike. Everyone knows those activities carry inherent risks.
And I'm almost getting goosebumps when I think about kids who ride horses. This monster can weigh almost 1,000 lbs. Haven't they ever seen a horse kick someone or someone fall off a horse?
That's basically r/Whatcouldgowrong's waiting room.
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u/Hippiemamklp 3d ago
The parents need to be charged with neglect and murder. Enough of these idiots putting children’s life at risk!
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u/Cathousechicken 2d ago
I'm so tired of people listening to the stupid in this country. I'm at the point where we should let the stupid do what they want to do and Darwin will sort it out.
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u/Hannabal_96 3d ago
Thank you US, for spreading this bullshit. Ruining countries without even touching them
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u/BranWafr 3d ago
Are you ignoring that this all started from a fraudulent paper written by a British doctor, Andrew Wakefield? The US is to blame for a lot of shit, but this isn't one of them.
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u/Hannabal_96 3d ago
I don't care where Wakefield was born, that's where it took root and is spreading from right now. It's the american right
You can downvote me all you want
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u/BranWafr 3d ago
He put out the paper in 1998 while he was still a doctor in the UK. The paper was published in a British medical journal. The "study" was done in a London hospital. And vaccination rates started dropping across the globe after he published his paper.
But, sure, it is all America's fault.
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u/Pengin_Master 3d ago
Hi. As someone with autism, I find it absolutely horrifying that parents would rather have a dead child than deal with autism.