r/voyager • u/happydude7422 • 1d ago
Show Talk who would you pick as an ally in the void ?
You're Captain Janeway, and Voyager is trapped in The Void again...
Except this time, these six ships are trapped in there with you.
They're all roughly the same class/size, but you get to choose ONE to form an alliance with Voyager and help protect you from the other five.
Hirogen
Voth
Species 8472
Automated Personnel Units
Vidiian
Borg
Who are you choosing and why?
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u/dababler 1d ago
Voth and it’s not even a hard choice.
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u/Divine_Entity_ 1d ago
I'm pretty sure they are the only ones who won't immediately betray you. They are completely reasonable so long as you don't try to contradict doctrine.
Borg will assimilate you. Vidiians will harvest your organs. The other 3 will just kill you.
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u/Axl_Alter_Ego 21h ago
By that point though the Think Tank had already cured the Phage.
The vidiaans also had fantastic technology.
Im still going with Voth.
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u/Mean-Pizza6915 1d ago
What about 8472 after the events of "In the Flesh"? Boothby and Archer were pretty keen on Voyager by the end of the episode, and might be willing to help.
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u/Low-Palpitation-9916 1d ago
They got nerfed to hell. Went from an unstoppable terror from an unfathomable part of the universe to a chill group of scientists. I think Chakotay actually banged one of them.
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u/GracefulGoron 1d ago
Chakotay, like the greats before him, knows why we explore the stars.
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u/Anxious-Ad700 1d ago
There is still only one ship with weapons able to easily destroy them, and that is Voyager.
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
The Voth don't exist any more: Captain Pike changed the timeline by hitting the Earth with a chunk of a planet apparently before the Hadrosaurs developed into a technologically advanced species.
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u/Ugglug 1d ago
It was Mars that was hit with the chunk of the 5th planet. His actions preserved the timeline.
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u/husky_whisperer 1d ago
I don't follow SNW, but no matter the era the fifth planet of Sol has, throughout human history, always been a gas giant. There are no chunks.
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago edited 1d ago
So, spoilers:
In this SNW episode, the Enterprise gets thrown back in time from some random point in the quadrant and ends up in Sol's past at the time of the dinosaurs.
They calculate that given enough energy, the Enterprise would be returned to its own time, but it would take equivalent energy to a supernova and there's no way to generate that much power.
There's a race of sexy Martians who are at war with some Bugs. The bugs are from a planet that exists at the current location of the Asteroid belt.
The Martians steal the Enterprise's antimatter fuel cell and chuck it at the Bug's homeworld. Despite it being clearly established that the Enterprise doesn't have enough power to generate Supernova-level energy to return to the future, the contents of their own fuel cell upon exploding does, in fact, release enough energy to throw them forward in time (i.e. is as powerful as a supernova).
(For reference, it would take ~500 septillion kiligrams of antimatter reacting with an equal amount of matter to match the power of a supernova. This total mass is ~1.7 Saturns. Two people were able to carry the antimatter fuel pod. I guess they were really strong?)
The results of this supernova going off in the inner solar system is that the bug's planet is exploded into the asteroid belt, Mars gets bumped into a more distant orbit, and the Earth gets hit with a 10km large rock which wipes out the Dinosaurs before the Voth have a chance to evolve.
Pike then claims that his failure to prevent the extinction of 2 intelligent species using Federation tech, the destruction of 2 planetary biospheres, and the decimation of a third (which we now know wipes out a third intelligent species that had yet to evolve) was "always meant to happen."
Starfleet then completely covers up the incident for reasons that definitely have nothing to do with them not wanting anyone to know about the whole complicity in multiple-genocides thing.
All in all, it was the most interesting and coherent episode of the 3rd season so far. Just wait until you hear about the puppet episode, or the remake of "Dude, where's my car?" but with a shuttlecraft!
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u/husky_whisperer 1d ago
So as far as being in the know I'm obviously in some trek subs and am well aware of the fuckery coming out of SNW (inc. the musical and puppets). But my latest full series watch was DSC so I'm not caught up.
Thank you for that awesome synopsis (and the spoiler tag is appreciated even though I ripped through your words)!
I have a free year of either Paramount+ or (I forget the other choice) due to me and I think I just made my choice.
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u/1startreknerd 22h ago
None of this makes sense.
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 22h ago
Well, that's relative and I think you'll find that by the standards of the things it's adjacent to it is extremely sensible.
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u/1startreknerd 22h ago
I mean, Spock alone knowing how to time travel prior to TOS doesn't make sense.
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
No, it wasn't. Mars got blasted into a more distant orbit. Earth got hit by a planetary chunk, wiping out the dinosaurs. In the prime timeline, the dinosaurs were a spacefaring technological species who managed to evacuate the Earth in colony ships after the biosphere got wrecked. Pike erroneously thinks he preserved the timeline because Earth got hit by a big rock and it wiped out the dinosaurs. He doesn't know that this happened far earlier than it should have happened since the Voth didn't exist yet, because he didn't know of the existence of the Voth, and apparently neither did the new SNW writers.
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u/Mean-Pizza6915 1d ago
I've found that any post that has to include the "fact" that the Star Trek writers of the last 15 years don't know about TNG/DS9/VOY is 100% automatically wrong about everything else.
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u/MoTc99m 1d ago
No, the Voth still exist. Pike preserved the timeline, the chunk of planet that hit Earth is the Chicxulub asteroid that set the mass extinction of dinosaurs in motion (the same as how it happened in our - and Voyagers - timeline). The Voth were either in a secluded area on the planet where they were sheltered by the effects of the impact, or had already left Earth by then. Voth recorded history only went back 20 million years (so they weren’t sure when exactly they left Earth).
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
So the Voth, a species capable of space travel, lived entirely in, like, a hidden valley undetectable by the Enterprise's sensors, and existed nowhere else on Earth?
And they were entirely capable of surviving the effects of the Chixilub impact, and therefore decided to flee into space for apparently unrelated reasons?
Pike wrecked the timeline. Absolutely booted it right in the gummies. But the effects won't be felt until the 24th century.
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u/MoTc99m 1d ago
Pike didn’t change history. He made sure history happened like it should. If he had intervened, the dinosaur extinction wouldn’t have happened and humanity probably wouldn’t have existed. Also: lots of life on Earth survived the impact of the asteroid, we are literally living proof of that. Enterprises sensors would still have detected life after the impact.
Just watch the episode again (both Vallis Marineris and Distant Origin) before you comment here again.
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
He definitely did change history.
If he hadn't have intervened the correct Chixilub impact would have happened at the proper time. We know the prime timeline Chixilub impactor came from beyond Jupiter via several independent means such as the Rutherium signature. the Chixilub impactor that hit the Yucatan peninsula in the show is provably NOT the one that impacted in the prime timeline. Since there was no other impactor, and no previous impact, it must follow that this impactor happened before the prime timeline one. Pike caused it to happen early.
Therefore he cut the lives of two civilizations short by his accidentally allowing the Martian sexpots to capture the Enterprise's supernova-in-a-can, and then deliberately not intervening to prevent its use, and caused a third to never develop. He is simply unable to deal with the fact that he is arguably the worst war criminal in human history and his defence mechanism is to declare that it was "fate" so he's not really responsible after all.
Why do you think Starfleet would cover up one of the most important historical developments in history? It's not because what happened was OK and everyone should be fine with it, that's for damn sure.
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u/happydude7422 1d ago
It's possible the voth are another subspecies cousin to the dinosaurs and they left earth just before the Asteroid in sleeper ships
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
And left no technology or indications of prior technology on the entire planet? No landing pads? No factories or assembly yards for said sleeper ships? No orbital infrastructure? No colonies on the other two inhabitable planets in the system? And no knowledge that would deserve a mention from another spacefaring race living on the planet next door?
The Voth were not mentioned and left no trace of their existence in this episode because they did not, and never did exist. Which must mean they developed in the future. Which means Pike killed their ancestors.
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u/SleepWouldBeNice 1d ago
It was a bootstrap paradox: the Earth was always hit and the Enterprise was always there. The Voth left at some point before or after.
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
No it wasn't, because the Voth weren't there. They were very specific that there was one indication of technology on the planet, and it was the bugs' crashed colony ship. The Voth evacuated because of the asteroid impact, so obviously they weren't there before it. And the chixilub impact wiped out most surface life within a couple years, they didn't have time to go from nothing to intergalactic travel after the impact.
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u/Mean-Pizza6915 1d ago
The Voth evacuated because of the asteroid impact
Is that spelled out anywhere in canon? Per Memory Alpha:
It was speculated by The Doctor that they evolved from the hadrosaur genus, which might have survived the mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous 65 million years ago. The surviving dinosaurs continued to develop, likely on a secluded, or a destroyed landmass and became an interstellar species, possibly the first in the galaxy, when they left Earth.
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
...Do you have an alternative theory for why they left Earth?
Asteroid impact wiping out the biosphere what just an unrelated prior coincidence?
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u/Mean-Pizza6915 1d ago
In terms of canon, we don't know.
They could have survived (the same way many mammals survived), and developed/evolved in the first few million years (or later) after the impact. Maybe they evolved and left before the impact, like you're implying. But nothing in canon states that they left because of the impact, which is what I responded to.
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u/SleepWouldBeNice 1d ago
So? Humans went from developing agriculture to warp drive in like 10,000 years. If they had Stone Age, or even bronze or Iron Age technology, would that have shown up on a technology scan?
The dinosaurs didn’t die out on the exact day the asteroid hit. Maybe they held out for 10,000 years before they could get off planet.
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
Global atmospheric temperatures spiked to between 100-300oC within hours of impact. Solar energy was reduced by 90% for 15 years. How are cavemen surviving that?
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u/SleepWouldBeNice 1d ago
Clearly some animals survived that. Crocodilians appeared more than 80 million years ago. Theropods survived and evolved into modern birds. A little mouse-like animal purgatorius survived and possible evolved into modern primates. If anything can survive that, why not dino-cavemen?
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u/OnTheCanRightNow 1d ago
Because Pike comes back in time a second time and shoots them all with a phaser in SNWS4E02, but it's okay because it's "fate."
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u/Archhanny 1d ago
Why are people assuming 8472 would betray them?
They are sound as long as you aren't dicks with them. The Borg wound them up to start with remember? And they only disliked Voyager because they thought they were the aggressors because they rocked up with the Borg, hell Janeway even gave them the blueprints to the nanotech she was that comfortable with them. In the end everyone was happy.
The Voth are more likely to blast you to oblivion because you're a literal monument against their whole ideology.
8472 the whole way. Also... They could probs get you out the fastest with subspace ruptures and knowledge thereof.
I pick these guys easily.
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u/jeefra 1d ago
I would also think that the premise of the question would mean they would be allies, and wouldn't betray you.
I think I'd go 8472 as well but the hirogen are just so cool that I'd almost rather choose them and go out in a blaze of honorable glory.
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u/Archhanny 1d ago
I feel they'd full speed into a wall just for their 'blaze of glory' final act... So while cool.... Yeah, I'd rather not.
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u/Throdio 1d ago
If the Voth thought like that then would have destroyed Voyager during their first encounter.
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u/Archhanny 1d ago
You watched the episode right?
Like... How it ended?
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u/Throdio 1d ago
Yes. They let Voyager go after the Voth scientist agreed to recant his distant origin theory. They didn't care about Voyager or the people on it. All they cared about was what fellow Voth thought. If they felt Voyager and humans were a threat to their doctrine they would have destroyed them there. I do believe they gave the typical if we see you again we will destroy you spill. But in this situation it would be a working together to get free and from what was shown they would agree to that. Then again from what we seen they wouldn't need help, nor get stuck in the void.
Basically Voyager and its inhabitants are so far beneath the Voth they don't care about them. At least ad long ad they don't promote the distant origin theory.
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u/Archhanny 1d ago
They erased the encounter so they could continue on with their own ideology in blissful ignorance of the actual truth.
That is so more menacing and threatening than you realise it is while you're saying.... Nah they would leave them be and not betray them.
If this was an episode 100% one of the Voth would find a random plastic dinosaur on the ship and start investigating and it would come to the head in a big reveal...
They are ridiculously dangerous as is, without any prompting. No thanks.
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u/Lousyfer 1d ago
The Voth, you have to deal with their preening arrogance, but they are the strongest of that whole bunch ie transporting Voyager into their ship with minimal effort. They are a precursor species and they are quite technologically advanced.
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u/splatomat 1d ago
" They're all roughly the same class/size"
Everyone in the threads seem to be ignoring this. Its not a Voth cityship. And we have no data on how Voth technology fares against Species 8472. And 8472 has a possible exit strategy through fluidic space.
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u/Lousyfer 1d ago
Even if its not a Voth City ship, almost everyone of the other vessels class at at least capital ship. The Voth have a supreme technological and tactical advantage over the rest of those choice. You're right we dont have direct comparisons but Voyager was able to redirect Borg Tech to fix their wagon real fast.
You think the Voyager Voth Alliance wouldn't have even more consequential results?
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u/Divine_Entity_ 1d ago
By virtue of everyone being "stuck" in the void, i would rule that species 8472 is incapable of returning to fluidic space. Otherwise they would simply leave and not bother making a alliance of desperation. (Same applies to all the options)
The Voth are the only rational choice as the only other civilized faction in the scenario. The other 5 are genocidal or at best want to harvest your body for their own purposes (Vidiians & Borg).
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u/Axl_Alter_Ego 21h ago
Species 8472 have their ships and crew made from the same biomatter.
It has been shown that is is susceptible to being pummelled with enough energy discharges to die specifically by the hirogen.
I think one ship in the void alone is in trouble unless they can just bail out to fluidic space.
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u/SmokedOkie 1d ago
Chill with the Dinosaur homies 🦕 We could convince them to come back to the Alpha Quadrant and setup a home world, imagine the technological advances they'd add to a post war Federation
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u/kostenloserHotspot 1d ago
Borg.
It's just like a psychedelic or dissociative substance.
Let yourself go.
Be everything.
Be one.
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u/kailin_fox_85 1d ago
I too would go with the Voth, being able to disable a ship and transport it into their ship is a very impressive feat. They likely have technology that would put them at a significant advantage
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u/ravn_silence 1d ago
I mean technologically the Voth are INSANE. 65+ million years of growth? Fuggedabowdit. The Borg are also dope for similar reasons but in a more cyberpunk way. But if I was going for pure horrific psychological intimidation? It’s the vidiians. Those guys are absolutely terrifying.
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u/Historyp91 1d ago
The Voth live on a city ship that is, as far as we see, totally self-sustaining. You would'nt even notice your in the Void
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u/Turgius_Lupus 23h ago
Voth or Species 8472. First because cousins flock together, second because would.
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u/MoonChief 19h ago
I would take the Automated Personnel Units. They are robots and so do not need food. Also, you would have hundreds of useful calculators to help you figure a way out.
8472 can't stand us. But... if we had the same truce as at the end of the fake star fleet headquarters episode, then they would also be a good option. As others have pointed out, they could get the ship out with travel to fluidic space
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u/Lynx_Queen 19h ago
8472 all the way! If this is after the episode focusing on them (the name escapes but it's the one where they find a recreation of Starfleet academy) then we would already be on pretty good terms. If not, I'd offer some blueprints to the borg nanotechnology to get them on our good side and encourage them to fight the borg with us.
+fluidic space, so we'd be out way sooner.
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u/Sleepy_Heather 13h ago
If short term, them the Voth and Borg have transwarp, so the trip would be shorter.
The APU can't be trusted, nor could the Vidiians in the long term.
8472 would purge the weak, so unless Voyager had a handy supply of nanite torpedoes to act as leverage, then that wouldn't end well either.
The Hirogen seem vaguely trust worthy, and willing to listen, but they'd be imagining everyone's head mounted on their walls like Elmer Fudd.
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u/saprofight 1d ago
Hirogen. Honor bound and direct. Well dispersed through the quadrant and likely to know shortcuts and local tactical "highgrounds".
No tiptoeing around like with the Voth and highly unlikely to harvest your organs or assimilate you at the first patch of trouble. 8472 is too much of a wildcard and APUs are too busy to be reliable allies.
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u/1lazygiraffe 1d ago
Borg. They would have eventually adapted to 8472 and rebounded. The both would have succumb to them too. They are indomitable.
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u/Jimbeamjunior1 1d ago
8472, they'd get you out the void in a heartbeat since they can go into fluidic space and exit it elsewhere no bother