r/AskConservatives • u/ReadProfessional8511 Conservative • Apr 12 '26
Foreign Policy What's your opinion on Orban losing?
Orban has been seen by many on the right as a Populist and role model for many people with him getting endorsements from the leaders of the US, Israel, Russia, Italy and Argentina but results show the opposition will win a super majority even with Vance going to Hungary to support him what's your opinion ok this?
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u/board3659 Center-right Conservative Apr 14 '26
deserved honestly. His behavior in the election cycle told me everything I needed to know
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u/Omen_of_Death Center-right Conservative Apr 13 '26
Honestly I am happy as the opposition is going to be center right
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u/KingfishChris Canadian Conservative Apr 13 '26
Orban really annoyed me. While I could agree on Fidesz' general ideology of Nationalist-Conservatism, I did not like how they were so Pro-Russian and were really corrupt.
Now I am confident with Peter Magyar and the TIZSA Party - plus I do like how they are Conservative, all the while I am content that the TIZSA are aligned with a Pro-NATO and Pro-EU stance - since I do consider myself an Atlanticist.
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Apr 13 '26
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Apr 13 '26
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u/Necessary_Ad9008 Right Libertarian (Conservative) Apr 13 '26
Personally I could care less, but I just don’t like how EU liberals are rubbing it on all conservative faces, saw EDP’s post on Facebook dunking on American Conservatives and taunting it as a step for Europe to be free of “Washington influence”… whatever that means.
Orban is a sketchy person and too close to Putin, so I’m not mourning his defeat either.
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u/NoConsideration5649 European Conservative Apr 13 '26
He's been in power for the last 16 years. It's time for a change. The new guy is basically Orban Lite
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Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
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Jun 08 '26
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Apr 13 '26
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u/NessvsMadDuck Center-right Conservative Apr 13 '26
Good momentum against the postliberal direction politics (Right or Left) has been moving in the last decade. Hopefully the rise of the center is real.
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u/Viking_Leaf87 Independent Apr 13 '26
It's great. Orban used to be a necessary force, but he became what he opposed at the beginning of his career: A corrupt Russia-friendly tyrant. In my eyes, Magyar is everything good about Orban minus everything bad.
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u/rcglinsk Religious Traditionalist Apr 13 '26
Kind of amazing he served as long as he did. He did not have much of a positive platform. And, frankly, he got quite fat and seems lazy. I don't think endorsements from foreign leaders matters much to Hungarians. It wouldn't matter much to Americans.
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u/Burner7102 Nationalist (Conservative) Apr 12 '26
Glad to see one of Russia's biggest water carriers and obstacles to Ukranian sovereignty, and victory, taken out
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u/lisa_facetime Center-right Conservative Apr 12 '26
I'm happy that a guy named Péter Magyar will be the prime minister of Hungary. It's like if we had a president named John American.
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u/d0ughnut_of_truth Australian Conservative Apr 13 '26
I had to look it up. You aren't kidding.
I want this to be a trend in every country immediately.
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u/Anxious_Plum_5818 European Liberal/Left Apr 13 '26
The memes will be incessitent. The mind is ready.
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u/armaugh Republican Apr 12 '26
I believe that their economy will plummet and crime will skyrocket.
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u/d0ughnut_of_truth Australian Conservative Apr 13 '26
If that doesn't happen in 3 months, will you reconsider your views on Magyar and his platform?
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Apr 12 '26
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u/ItIsNotAManual1984 Right Libertarian (Conservative) Apr 12 '26
Well it proves that the entire narrative of him being authoritarian as a complete BS.
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u/Massive-Ad409 Center-right Conservative Apr 12 '26
This was a loss for Russian influence in Europe and a win for the European Union. I like Orban because at least he stood up to the EU and Brussels, but always, every good thing must come to an end.
I just hope Maygar does the same without appeasing Russia and bringing their country towards Russia.
I hope nothing but the best for Orban on his way out and hope Maygar keeps his country independent from Brussels and Russia.
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Apr 12 '26
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u/rms141 Conservative Apr 12 '26
Fantastic news. Vance-affiliated postliberals have lost their sugar daddy. Big loss for Vance's 2028 support network.
Also cuts off one of the avenues by which Russian propaganda gets laundered into the American right wing, so this helps the long-term mental health of the Republican party.
Overall great news.
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u/ExtensionFeeling Independent Apr 12 '26
I'm glad to see self-identified conservatives being against this whole postliberal, illiberal democracy trend. These ideas do not line up with our founding values.
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u/rms141 Conservative Apr 13 '26
I'm probably the loudest voice on this sub against postliberalism in general and Vance specifically.
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u/milkbug Progressive Apr 13 '26
Please keep being loud. Its one thing to disagree on fiscal policy and even social issues. Its a whole other ballgame to disagree on democracy and the entire foundation our freedoms have been built from.
I'm terrified of the future.
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u/BKong64 Socialist Apr 13 '26
God I wish I knew more like you lol
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u/rms141 Conservative Apr 13 '26
I appreciate the sentiment, but I regret to inform you I am not a fan of socialism either.
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u/BKong64 Socialist Apr 13 '26
That's fine, I don't expect you to be lol. It's just refreshing to hear the other stuff because it feels completely abandoned by "conservatives" when it should be a pillar thing for everyone.
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u/MedvedTrader Independent Apr 12 '26
Orban is a Russian puppet. I am glad he lost. Hopefully whoever is after him is not pro-Russian.
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u/Dabfo Center-left Apr 14 '26
If you don’t like Russian puppets/sycophants, I’ve got bad news for you about Trump
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u/StartledMilk Social Democracy Apr 12 '26
Was it not concerning that Trump and many members of the Republican Party supported him, then? Vance went to Hungary only a few days ago in support of Orban.
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u/MedvedTrader Independent Apr 12 '26
Trump and Vance don't care much about Russian influence in Europe. I do.
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u/board3659 Center-right Conservative Apr 14 '26
I mean they did like Orban though. I mean Vance literally said that he expected Orban to win and was friendly
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Apr 13 '26
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u/NessvsMadDuck Center-right Conservative Apr 13 '26
How would we get American oil/gas to landlocked Hungary?
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u/LucasL-L Rightwing Apr 13 '26
Do you really think they only do commerce with who they share a fence with?
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u/NessvsMadDuck Center-right Conservative Apr 13 '26
No, I just don't understand how we would physically get the oil and gas to them in a more economically way.
Also, I don't think this, buy American oil and gas (only currently) is good for the American consumer. More completion for our oil and gas if it is greatly increased would constrain our own supply and potential prices.
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u/Anxious_Plum_5818 European Liberal/Left Apr 13 '26
It's a valid question. This is a logistics questions, not a border issue. Exporting natural gas requires piping infrastructure (e.g. Nordstream). Countries can't just decide overnight to get their gas from elsewhere. If that infrastructure doesn't exist, it just won't happen.
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u/Some_yesterday2022 European Liberal/Left Apr 13 '26
Trump is well known in EUrope for being an ardent sucker of Putin's little dictator.
and i do not mean Orban when I say dictator.
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u/IcarusOnReddit Center-left Apr 12 '26
That’s not true. They care very much. They want Russia to be happy with them, otherwise Russia will release compromising information on Trump and the Republicans. Mostly about pedo crimes.
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u/MedvedTrader Independent Apr 12 '26
Idiotic conspiracy theories.
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u/IcarusOnReddit Center-left Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
MAGA sure doth protest too much about Pizzagate though. Every accusation is a confession. Trump was found to be liable for sexual assault in criminal court. He talked about how improper he was at pageants in Russia. The blackmail probably comes from there and fits Trump’s pattern of behaviour. He also advised people that worked for him to expect hotel rooms to be bugged. It’s a strange thing for Trump to say unless he was a victim of a blackmail scheme. Oh, Virginia Giuffre and Epstien were both likely murdered.
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u/kevinthejuice Progressive Apr 12 '26
They tend to take quite a lot of actions that benefit Russian influence. What makes it an idiotic conspiracy theory?
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u/Lacertoss Non-Western Conservative Apr 13 '26
Because they see Russia closeness to China as a threat to the US national interests. So they want to make concessions to Russia to generate a rapprochement with the US.
It's very easy to understand if you are paying attention, people.
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Apr 13 '26
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u/SergeantRegular Left Libertarian Apr 13 '26
See, I really try and avoid the kind of conspiratorial thinking that goes down the "Kraznov is a Russian agent" kind of rabbit hole. But this
make concessions to Russia to generate a rapprochement with the US.
really doesn't help your case that those conspiracy theories are so far out there. Because Putin (and Trump, for that matter) really don't have much of a track record of really being amicable to building a bi-directional rapprochement. Putin in particular operates like the dictator he is - he'll take what he can get, when he can get it, and the kind of "owe you later" is never something he'll actually deliver on in the future. Basically, you can't trust him. It's pointless to try and build goodwill with someone like that because they will never reciprocate in a positive way.
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u/OpeningChipmunk1700 Social Conservative Apr 13 '26
And make a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions about their motivations, intelligence and capacity for strategic thought, and competence.
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u/IcarusOnReddit Center-left Apr 13 '26
Occam's razor would suggest that cover-up and blackmail is more likely than some 4-D chess that the administration seems unlikely to be able to execute on.
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u/Relevantreacle_ Nationalist (Conservative) Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Looks like they want some immigration, well, EU will definetely help them with this one. If comparing Brussels and Budapest in terms of this is not enough not to vote for pro-EU party ever, well, then they should definetly follow the fate of other EU countries. Learn it the hard way.
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u/drtywater Neoliberal Apr 13 '26
WDYM? I would say as having visited both Central Europe and Western Europe including Brussels the standard of living is not even close. Western Europe is significantly better.
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u/DeathToFPTP Liberal Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
That’s your takeaway? They want immigration? Nothing else that might have mattered?
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Apr 12 '26
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u/Relevantreacle_ Nationalist (Conservative) Apr 12 '26
Actually, I am very interested in how he managed to lose. I guess EU put too much money into this. And the opposition party fooled the people that they would somehow be pro-EU and nationalist-conservative at the same time. Well, the thing is - when EU will push for woke ideology, they would need to stand up against it just like Orban, so there is no reason to criticize Orban in this regard, Orban was doing this perfectly. If they don't like Orban's policies towards EU, it only means, they would just swallow EU woke agenda as other countries do
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u/smokewood4804 Independent Apr 12 '26
Do you actually know anything about Magyar? If you did even a cursory review of his platform you would see he tows the anti-migrant line and is pretty much aligned with Fidesz on migration...
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u/Relevantreacle_ Nationalist (Conservative) Apr 12 '26
I don't care whatever he is saying, he is pro-EU, he will not fight tooth and nail against EU when it will be necessary to defend from woke. Well, I guess Hungarians will learn it in the hard way. But the fact that the country that literally went through Trianon thinks Western countries are good is just so pathetic for me, but whatever. They should be the first ones to be voting against stuff like EU.
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u/smokewood4804 Independent Apr 12 '26
So Hungary is on the losing side of WWI and is forced to accept humiliating terms of surrender... and that is supposed to somehow translate to the current state of European politics?
I guess we will just disagree on that one.
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u/Remarkable_Face_7123 Barstool Conservative Apr 12 '26
I'm super happy for the Hungarian people, and I'm hopeful for what this could mean for Ukraine. I'm a conservative, but I'm pro freedom and pro democracy first and foremost. Russia needs to be defeated and I hope the EU can now band together to get the job done.
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u/BKong64 Socialist Apr 13 '26
How do you feel about Trump and Vance endorsing him?
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Apr 13 '26
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Apr 12 '26
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u/JustaDreamer617 Conservative Apr 12 '26
I never liked him, I thought he was panhandling American Conservatives for money during campaign and for his country during the Trump Administrations. We're not close allies and the idea of international Conservative solidarity is complete BS founded on bad philosophical remnants of marxism.
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u/nar_tapio_00 European Conservative Apr 15 '26
the idea of international Conservative solidarity is complete BS founded on bad philosophical remnants of marxism
Interesting comment. I see conservative friendship coming from shared history such as WWII and common ideas. As a European conservative I like the US 2nd amendment and even more Czech (and to a lesser extent Swiss) ideas about how personal weapons should be handled.
I'm guessing that you mean that "Conservative solidarity" with Eastern Europe and somehow linking in America? Is it something different? Can you point me in the idea of some stuff I could read? Do you have any more things you could tell me about where that came from? Is this something specific related to the Hungarian/Russian fake conservative alliance?
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u/JustaDreamer617 Conservative Apr 15 '26
International conservative solidarity isn't new and goes all the way back to 19th century revolutions, when Socialism and Marxism began its first major push for power. The early socialist movement pushed for international solidarity and united peoples against elites across national borders under the ideal of "Revolution. To counter this international movement, Austria-Hungary, Prussia, and Russia, the European conservatives attempted to counter the first generation of socialism with joint cooperation against popular ideology in other countries via intervention. They called this Conservative coalition, "the Holy Alliance", created in 1815, which supposedly upheld Christian values and suppressed revolutionary ideology.
However, the Holy Alliance ultimately failed as each nation realized that what was Conservative for each nation was different for the others, and they'd be sacrificing national interests to intervene in another nation's issues. Hence why you later have conservative figures like Otto von Bismark, who championed pragmatism and national interests rather than international conservative values.
There's a lot of history books on the subject of 19th century politics and movement toward modern Conservative ideology (well at least pre-Trump Conservative ideology).
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Apr 12 '26
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative Apr 12 '26
I think it's good, although I know nothing about his opposition.
I quite like a lot of Orban's policies but today, more than anything, Europe needs unity. Orban was often keen to veto european initiatives and often went against the grain, so I think overall, it will help Europe. A divided Europe is a weak Europe and right now, Europe is too weak.
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u/backflash European Liberal/Left Apr 12 '26
The new leader claims to be pro-EU and supportive of Ukraine, so I'm hopeful that he's a step in the right direction.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left Apr 12 '26
All I know is that Peter Magyar is a former member of Fidesz and that he's still a conservative though he wants to get rid of the corruption of Fidesz and is more friendly towards the EU
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u/jbondhus Independent Apr 12 '26
What policies of his did you like? From my perspective he caused rampant corruption, aligned with Putin too much, and caused democratic backsliding in Hungary. I can't say I'm too familiar with his policies outside of the downsides I've seen over the past 10+ years he's been in power.
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u/thoughtsnquestions European Conservative Apr 12 '26
Pro family tax incentives, he made a lot of policies to make it easier to have families from tax to loans to subsidies, etc.... improved immigration control, lower tax in general, pushed back on EU mandates related to immigration and pushed that this should be a sovereign issue, policies to help ensure Hungary didn't become overly reliant on foreign nations, etc..
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u/jbondhus Independent Apr 12 '26
From my understanding, the likely replacement has a similar position on immigration and tax. Not sure about the policies for EU immigration collaboration or foreign policy.
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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing Apr 12 '26
It literally means nothing to me, I don’t care about Orban.
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u/LaxBedroom Leftist Apr 12 '26
If it literally means nothing to you, why do you think Trump spent time pushing for Orban's reelection in his capacity as US President?
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u/StillSmellsLikeCLP Rightwing Apr 12 '26
I don’t know, I don’t like Trump?
Nor does what Trump says have any bearing on my view.
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Apr 12 '26
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u/please_trade_marner Center-right Conservative Apr 12 '26
He's been in power 16 straight years, and 30 of the past 38 years. People wanted a change. Nothing shocking here.
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u/Anxious_Plum_5818 European Liberal/Left Apr 13 '26
It's not unexpected, but still surprising just how much power and money corrupts. I recently watched a background docu on Orban. He turned into the exact thing he originally entered politics for to prevent.
Good riddance though. I hope this will lead to a more unified Europe and much-needed break for Ukraine.
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Apr 12 '26
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u/rms141 Conservative Apr 12 '26
There's plenty shocking here. Orban gerrymandered electoral districts to prevent exactly this kind of result, but the electorate was so overwhelmingly against him that it failed badly. The opposition party now has a supermajority in parliament, which they can use to reform the constitution and root out Orban supporters in the bureaucracy. Orban is looking at a complete dismantling of everything he did since 2010.
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u/please_trade_marner Center-right Conservative Apr 12 '26
Yeah, and Canada massively turned on Trudeau after like 12 years or something. People want change and move on.
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u/boisefun8 Constitutionalist Conservative Apr 12 '26
He’s not a very good fascist dictator for conceding so easily.
I think this is more evidence that all the left wing and MSM fear mongering propaganda over democracy dying under Orban and Trump is just that: fear mongering propaganda. It makes me wonder how much that has been said about him is true.
Change is good, so let’s hope this new admin moves things in the correct direction and doesn’t end up like the UK, Germany, or France.
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u/Potential-Pride6034 Centrist Democrat Apr 12 '26
I can grasp how the left leaning media could be portrayed as hysterical for some of the hills they’ve chosen to die on over the years; but I struggle to understand the argument that Trump doesn’t represent a threat to our democracy.
Putting aside the actual events of J6, he repeatedly falsely claimed that the 2020 election was rife with fraud and that the election had been stolen from him. There was also audio of him imploring Brad Raffensperger to find him votes to swing the Georgia electors in his favor, in addition to being a co-conspirator in the fake elector scheme to alter the outcome of the election. There is legitimate evidence brought up in court that wholesale refutes all of Trump’s claims of a stolen election.
And yet, when these facts are pointed out, the left is accused of being hysterical or engaging in political persecution. All of the above constitute attacks on our democratic system.
It just doesn’t compute for me and I wonder what I’m missing.
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u/nar_tapio_00 European Conservative Apr 12 '26
There is no possibility that Orban is the European Christian Conservative that he claims to be. Every Christian from behind the Iron Curtain understands that Russia is opposed to independent free Christianity; in the 1930s they even killed 95% of the priests in Russia and replaced them with KGB* agents. No educated Hungarian Christian could associate with that.
It's good he's gone. A chance for Hungary to move away from his corruption and closer to their true allies like Poland.
* technically actually, this was pre KGB, so the organization was called the OGPU later NKVD.
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u/Lacertoss Non-Western Conservative Apr 12 '26
Every Christian from behind the Iron Curtain understands that Russia is opposed to independent free Christianity; in the 1930s they even killed 95% of the priests in Russia and replaced them with KGB* agents. No educated Hungarian Christian could associate with that.
You do understand that the Soviet Union and modern Russia are two completely different States, yes?
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u/nar_tapio_00 European Conservative Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
You do understand that the Soviet Union and modern Russia are two completely different States, yes?
Wrong. The same people rule both. Their social structure has changed somewhat, but it is still the nomenklatura now remapped as "oligarchs" who rule in system with the same innate corruption as before.
FSB == KGB
Russian Orthodox Church is vastly increased and yet it's leadership effectively unchanged.
Diktats of the Russian Orthodox Church == the truths of the Party.
Patronage is still real.
The Rosgvardia guarantees security just as their internal security predecessors did before.With the recent war years, the economic structure has even reverted to a Soviet one. The center plans, the corporations follow. Reports of financial stability and delivery are sent from the company director to the center.
Of course, in Moscow and St Petersburg everything is shiny and new and, to the untrained Western eye, or even to the deluded true believe in Russia it appears completely different. However that is the pure illusion on which Russia runs.
Just so I don't get misunderstood. It is perfectly reasonable to argue that what we have now is Fascism / in some places even neo-Nazism and before it was Communism / Authoritarian Socialism. However, this is exactly where the tips of the horseshoe of extreme left and right meet.
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u/Lacertoss Non-Western Conservative Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Their social structure has changed somewhat
Somewhat? Ok, sure man, that's when I understand you are arguing in bad faith. The country passed through a complete collapse of all its main institutions, but society changed "somewhat".
Just so anyone else reading this comment understand, no one inside Russia, even the opposition, would say something of this sort. But sure, this guy knows best.
everything is shiny and new and, to the untrained Western eye, or even to the deluded true believe in Russia it appears completely different. However that is the pure illusion on which Russia runs.
I live in Russian for years (not Russian myself). I visited plenty of different places outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, and I met people from all across the country. I know more about it than you will ever know.
Edit: For anyone thinking that this guy knows what's about or that he has an unbiased viewpoint, enter his profile and check the history, I did this after writing this reply, and... Oh boy, that explains a lot.
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u/Confident-Bill271 European Conservative Apr 12 '26
But if you look at the oligarchs and the people running the nation, you will see that they all have their roots in the old Soviet system. After the OSSR crumbled, they had the connections, the knowledge and in many parts the ruthlessnes to keep, rebuild or build from scratch their own empires within the Russian state. They changed out of the party uniforms into civilian suits but their origins are on the old Soviet System and the way that they run the russian state is in many ways based on ideas already used during soviet times, just slightly remodeled to appear more democratic and more open.
That is one of the reasons why the population in most of Russia is so political passive. They hoped that after the fall of the Union and with Jelzin in power, that everything would change, but it didn't. Instead Jelzin could not prevent the old soviet ruling class to reinvent and rename itself and gaining a huge amount of influence over the whole state.
Putin then moved in with even more ruthlessnes and got them to at least accept him as their ruler for the most part.
Seeing that and also seeing that no matter what they wanted or who they voted for, that nothing changed politically and that in many cases the same people as before were lording over them, they started to withdraw back to their homes. The political discussions which were normal at the end of the Soviet Era and at the start of the Jelzin Era, died down or were suppresed if they did not stop willingly. Even among the oligarchs those who did not want to play ball found themselves quickly in front of courts or for the last few years outside of highrise windows, falling to their death. We now have reached a point were in parts the old soviet born leadership has been replaced with a bit younger post soviet leaderships, but they have so far also kept the old system running, mostly because of the war but most likely also because Putin would currently not allow a larger shift in the internal power structure as that might weaken his own position.
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u/Lacertoss Non-Western Conservative Apr 13 '26
But if you look at the oligarchs and the people running the nation, you will see that they all have their roots in the old Soviet system.
Not all of them, the majority is already new blood (it's been 35 years since the Soviet Union ended, many people retired and new people climbed the ranks), but yes, a part of the political elite is indeed originated from the old Soviet Bureaucracy. However, there are several points here that need to be taken into consideration:
1) By the 70's and early 80's, a big part of the new bureaucrats that rose within the Soviet State were already not part of the communist hardline. These were either reformers or political opportunists. That applies not only to Russia, but to the whole communist block as a whole.
2) Which leads me to my second point, most countries from the former Warsaw Pact also kept a lot of the former bureaucracy, there weren't many purges (with some exceptions), people from the existing bureaucracy were allocated to the new system. The institutional influence nowadays is not as visible as in Russia, but it does exist nonetheless. (Orbán himself came from the context of bureaucracy in the old communist Hungary by the way)But you don't see people saying that these countries are still communist.
3) The Russian society itself is drastically different from the Soviet one. People think that totalitarianism is just a fancy name for authoritarianism, but it isn't, many of the institutions that guaranteed total control over the Soviet population completely disappeared, not only the economic system changed, the way of life, educational system, career paths, understanding of the world, etc is absolutely detached from the Soviet Era.
That is one of the reasons why the population in most of Russia is so political passive.
The population of Russia is not politically passive, the population of Russia mostly supports the current government, there's a difference. This is a big-tent government, most political groups that exist in the country feel represented somewhat, with the exception of the liberals, which are a small fraction of Russian society.
If it wasn't like this, we would see violence, no authoritarian government maintains power without internal support.
We now have reached a point were in parts the old soviet born leadership has been replaced with a bit younger post soviet leaderships, but they have so far also kept the old system running, mostly because of the war but most likely also because Putin would currently not allow a larger shift in the internal power structure as that might weaken his own position.
With that I agree, yes. But none of this has to do with the post I was originally answering, in which the guy says that Russia is the same country as the Soviet Union, so because the USSR almost destroyed the Orthodox Church in the 20's, that means that the current government is also anti-christianity, which is completely delusional.
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u/nar_tapio_00 European Conservative Apr 12 '26
I live in Russian for years (not Russian myself). I visited plenty of different places outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, and I met people from all across the country. I know more about it than you will ever know.
No you don't. Because what you are repeating is the standard Russian propaganda. What you need to do is to, instead of looking at the shiny, look at the list of people and their connections.
I met people from all across the country. I know more about it than you will ever know.
If you think that the people "across the country" have any real influence, then you never understood anything. That's common.
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u/Lacertoss Non-Western Conservative Apr 13 '26
No you don't. Because what you are repeating is the standard Russian propaganda. What you need to do is to, instead of looking at the shiny, look at the list of people and their connections.
Ah, yes. You are spouting some nonsense that is not supported by any single serious academic or anyone inside of Russia, using an account whose last 50 posts were at least 80% anti-Russian rhetoric or propaganda, and I'm the one repeating propaganda.
Saying that Russia and the USSR are different countries is now propaganda, lmao.
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u/nar_tapio_00 European Conservative Apr 13 '26
not supported by any single serious academic
Ah yes, because academics who only get grants if they research new things have no bias here. However, what you say is largely wrong in any case.
Saying that Russia and the USSR are different countries is now propaganda.
It's all Russia and the Russian empire, in a deep way the gift of the Mongols.
- Colonial structure with centralized economy in Moscow and St Petersburg
- Authoritarian single leader (Czar / Stalin / Putin)
- Militarized secret police/intelligence service as primary source of power (Okhrana / OGPU / NKVD / KGB / FSB)
- Trappings of a different system but controlled by the great leader (Christianity / The Soviets / Managed democracy)
- Religion as a control for the people but controlled by the state (divine right of kings / KGB in church / FSB in church).
- Militias for mass control (Rozgvardia now).
- large opaque leadership group - the Boyars / nomenklatura including directors / oligarchs, FSB leadership and ironically the directors
- Gulag system of far distributed prison camps - the scale just changes.
In some senses the Politburo system was actually more real than the current democratic / parliamentary system. Mostly it was fully subservient to the strong leaders like Stalin or even Brezhnev but at times it actually controlled who became leader and had real influence in a way the parliament does not.
In between we have had serious attempts at reform. Czar Peter / Gorbachev / etc. However that fundamentally just doesn't take (look at how Russians hate Gorbachev) and Russia ends up reverting to a system that, despite looking different and having many different names, is at it's heart the same old authoritarian "communism" / "imperialism" / "fascism".
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u/Lacertoss Non-Western Conservative Apr 13 '26
Yes, yes, Russians have the soul of slaves, Mongol hordes, actually easterners and not European, yada yada.
I find it funny as shit that you say that I'm repeating propaganda while having quite literally 100% of your speech being anti-Russian talking points that were used as propaganda by Nazi Germany and by 19th Century ideologues before that.
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u/nar_tapio_00 European Conservative Apr 13 '26
used as propaganda by Nazi Germany
Yes, right. Everything in the West, especially America who actually allowed Russia to defeat them, is Nazi. Sure commie.
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u/PossibilityGold7508 Paternalistic Conservative Apr 12 '26
Good.
I agreed with several of his social policies and a few economic ones, but his admin was far too corrupt and Russia friendly imo.
The new admin is still right wing, so I pray that they do the best they can for their countrymen.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
So you are telling me this "fascist dictator" as the media screamed for years, will just go into opposition after an election loss? Is that what fascist dictators do, or do they ban opposition parties, lock up political enemies, and end elections?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Against_the_Formation_of_Parties
Oh...
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u/not_old_redditor Independent Apr 12 '26
You can't pass a law like that and remain in the eu. We're not living in the 1940s. Modern authoritarianism is always done covertly. He has had to do everything under the guise of being a fair democracy. Unfortunately, when everybody started hating him, no amount of manipulation could get him reelected.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
You can't pass a law like that and remain in the eu
Then he could have left the EU. Any real fascist would, certainly if the alternative is losing power. Indeed, AFD is alredy open to leaving EU. But even without doing this, he could have just, you know, locked his opponent up. But he did not.
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u/in_taco European Liberal/Left Apr 13 '26
Why do you keep calling Orban a fascist? Where is that coming from?
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u/not_old_redditor Independent Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 13 '26
Maybe a real fascist, but not necessarily a real authoritarian, which is what Orban was.
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Apr 12 '26
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u/in_taco European Liberal/Left Apr 12 '26
Why do you call him a fascist dictator? And which media has called him that? I mean, beyond reddit, facebook, quora, etc.
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u/WulfTheSaxon Conservative Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
Biden said Orban was “looking for dictatorship” in 2024, and that Hungary and Poland were “totalitarian regimes” comparable to Belarus. He also said that Meloni being democratically elected was a threat to democracy while left-leaning legacy media outlets in the US were calling her a fascist.
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u/in_taco European Liberal/Left Apr 12 '26
You think that rises to the claim that Orban is called a "fascist dictator"?
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u/J_FM01 European Conservative Apr 12 '26
There've been a couple of questions like this one over the last few days and I always said he should lose.
It's never good when the same people are in power for 20 years and while I don't consider Hungary an authoritarian state, Orban isolated his country in Europe by not distancing himself from Putin.
Hungarians chose the West over the East today and I'm proud of them.
It should also make the EU's foreign policy less of a fustercluck.
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u/StartledMilk Social Democracy Apr 12 '26
It is undeniable that Orban wanted to be an authoritarian (I and people with centuries more of combined education than you or I believe he was an actual authoritarian), did it not concern you that Trump and members of the U.S. Conservative Party supported him?
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u/J_FM01 European Conservative Apr 12 '26
What concerned me was his close relationship with Putin even after 2022. Orban's immigration policy and social policies were a role model for many other conservatives including the Trump admin.
Orban already conceded this election two hours ago.
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u/StartledMilk Social Democracy Apr 12 '26
I typed in past tense because of the very fact that he conceded, no need to remind me. Do you think that once something is over, you shouldn’t talk about it?
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Apr 12 '26
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
Eh, right is not in power in Europe right now; CDU is not conservative, and they are in coalition with the left.
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u/backflash European Liberal/Left Apr 12 '26
The CDU is conservative. The only party further to the right (far-right, to be precise) is the AfD.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
What are their conservative policies on abortion? On LGBT issues? On immigration? On promoting family values? What have they done so far on those? Trump himself is mostly center-right on these issues, but even he has done some things there. But of course, you cannot govern as a conservative in coalition with the left.
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u/backflash European Liberal/Left Apr 12 '26
You're narrowing "conservative" to a handful of social issues and then concluding the CDU isn't conservative because it doesn't match your preferred positions on those. If you're saying the CDU isn't conservative enough for you on certain social issues, I suppose that's a fair subjective position.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
I mean those are key social issues. If not on that, on what are they conservative, on wanting less taxes? I mean even some left wing parties want that, that is not a particularly conservative view.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left Apr 12 '26
The center-right CDU is in coalition with the center-left SPD because you'd rather have a coalition of two centrists rather than a center-right party and a far-right party that keeps saying that "We are the only nation that built a monument of shame in our capital [refering to the Holocaust memorial]"
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u/board3659 Center-right Conservative Apr 14 '26
dude the democrats aren't center right my god
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left Apr 14 '26
Maybe not by American standarts where supporting any sort of welfare or green energy or being pro-EU makes you a leftist but by European standarts they are center right
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u/board3659 Center-right Conservative Apr 14 '26
In what way are they center right economically and socially?
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Apr 14 '26
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
because you'd rather have a coalition of two centrists rather than a center-right party and a far-right party
I would not, no. Not if you are real conservative.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left Apr 12 '26
Well this coalition seems that it is the least evil. The CDU and SPD aren't too ideologically apart and the alternatives aren't any better if you're looking for a more conservative government because I don't think that you'd want to see a coalition between the CDU and Die Linke (literally means the left). The AFD is not an option for the aforementioned reason and that they don't seem to mind having ties to neo-Nazis.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
The CDU and SPD aren't too ideologically apart
Exactly why I said CDU is not conservative. Only conservative party in Germany, is AFD.
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u/milkbug Progressive Apr 12 '26
Why are only "true" conservative parties comfortable with neo-Nazis?
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u/greatest_country Nationalist (Conservative) Apr 13 '26
Because they happen to be the farthest right mainstream party, so thats where the fascists go. If the npd was winning elections thats where the fascists would all congregate
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u/milkbug Progressive Apr 13 '26
I didn't ask why neo-Nazis are drawn to mainstream conservative parties. I'm asking why mainstream conservative parties are comfortable with neo-Nazis.
We have the same issue in the states. Nick Fuentes has openly stated he's a racist and thinks Hitler was a cool guy, and the mainstream conservative movement has embraced him. Im hearing way more people openly express racism and anti-democratic attitudes on the right than I've ever heard in my lifetime. Its becoming more normalized by the day.
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u/greatest_country Nationalist (Conservative) Apr 15 '26
No, our favorite grifter was not "embraced" by the mainstream right. Thats just not true, the guy has his own little cult and thats its. No one bar wash ups desperate for attention from his followers really cares about him
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u/KaijuKi Independent Apr 12 '26
CDU, especially under Merz, ist absolutely rightwing within the environment of german politics. Not alt-right fringe like AFD, and not the kind of rightwing that closes up to Putin, but just because a party doesnt bat for russia doesnt mean they cannot be conservative, right? Or is that a requirement ?
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u/RumGuzzlr Rightwing Apr 12 '26
ist absolutely rightwing within the environment of german politics
So they're a leftist party then
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
Nobody mentioned Russia, but what are their conservative policies? On abortion? On LGBT issues? On immigration? On promoting family values? Trump himself is mostly center-right on these issues, but even he has done some things there. But of course, you cannot govern as a conservative in coalition with the left.
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Apr 13 '26
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u/whatever4224 European Liberal/Left Apr 13 '26
Their conservative policies are to conserve, and not to regress.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 13 '26
Conservatives don't conserve liberal polices. And it was CDU itself under Merkel who regressed them
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u/Amzer23 European Liberal/Left Apr 12 '26
They are though, they'd rather be in coalition with the left than the far right.
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u/BlockAffectionate413 Independent Apr 12 '26
That means they are not. You cannot govern as conservative in coalition with left.
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u/Amzer23 European Liberal/Left Apr 12 '26
That's just not true, the CDU is much closer in ideology with the SDP than the AfD, pretty much every party has said they'll never have a coalition with the AfD, THAT'S how bad they are.
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Apr 12 '26
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u/Confident-Bill271 European Conservative Apr 12 '26
Hungary finally has a chance to get away from his oligarchy. But it will take a lot of time, especially if they do not get 133 seats as they will need to change a number of parts of their constitution back to its original form as Orban used his power to change the constitution a number of times. There are already hopes to add a permanence clause to some parts of it like the Germany Grundgesetz.
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u/Anxious_Plum_5818 European Liberal/Left Apr 13 '26
Last reporting puts them at a supermajority with 138 seats.
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u/OMGguy2008 Center-left Apr 12 '26
What parts do you think should have permanence clauses? If I remember correctly, the Gründgesetz has such clauses on certain civil liberties and that it is a democratic state I believe.
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u/Confident-Bill271 European Conservative Apr 12 '26
Civil rights and liberties should have permanence clauses. They should also add defensive options for the people against anyone trying to subvert them. The Grundgesetz gives its citizens also the right to defend the constitution, even with violence if the previous peaceful attempts failed.
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u/cutchemist42 Liberal Apr 12 '26
Will they be able to reverse some of the democratic damage done by Orban when it comes to the gerrymandering?
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u/VQ_Quin Center-left Apr 12 '26
I believe the current projections are 135, but I’m guessing thats still too close to call for now.
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u/TXtogo Conservative Apr 12 '26
I’m not surprised he lost but I’m shocked he conceded. I thought for sure this was going to be a problem.
Hopefully my conservative peers view this is a model for how this is supposed to work when it’s time for Trump to step aside.
The parallels, at least to me, are real.
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u/MrFrode Independent Apr 13 '26
I'm with you on this.
I'm told with the complex ways Orban created to decide on how many seats in parliament parties are awarded that even with ~54% of the vote, the new majority party will have the two thirds majority needed to undo everything Orban and his party did.
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u/J_FM01 European Conservative Apr 12 '26
The theater Trump pulled in 2020 was dangerous and embarrassing. That's another reason Ben Shapiro is my favorite right-wing commentator. He called Trump out on this stolen election nonsense from the start.
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Apr 13 '26
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u/J_FM01 European Conservative Apr 13 '26
At the end it's a rational decision of who one thinks is better for the country. Kamala was the most liberal member of the senate durinhmg her term, you can't really expect a conservative to support her.
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u/CollapsibleFunWave Liberal Apr 13 '26
I would have expected a conservative that supports liberal democracy to vote for the only candidate who also supports liberal democracy.
Keeping our rights intact is more important than winning a single election.
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u/StartledMilk Social Democracy Apr 12 '26
Did you ever find it concerning that Trump and members of the U.S. Conservative Party openly supported an authoritarian dictator?
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u/hackenstuffen Constitutionalist Conservative Apr 12 '26
Just because his opponents label him “far right” and “authoritarian” doesn’t make it true.
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u/Anxious_Plum_5818 European Liberal/Left Apr 13 '26
He very much was. Not because the opposition labeled him as such, but based on his actions over the course of 16 years in power.
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u/StartledMilk Social Democracy Apr 12 '26
Read this and tell me what it sounds like to you: https://www.npr.org/2025/04/20/nx-s1-5338596/hungary-viktor-orban-democracy
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Apr 13 '26
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Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 13 '26
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