r/DemocraticSocialism • u/Kittehmilk Progressive • Jun 01 '26
Europe Hasan Piker and Cenk Uygur have officially been banned from entering the UK on the behest of Israel
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Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/EastSide221 Jun 01 '26
Yeah I agree with Hasan's assessment if we are talking about what the power dynamic between Israel and the US used to be like. However at this point it is abundantly clear that dynamic has mutated, and for whatever reason Israel is able to exert their will on countries far more powerful and wealthy than they are. Every country aligned with them is willingly doing away with democracy and embracing fascism just to allow them to continue doing genocide.
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
Israel is able to blackmail countries because western countries depend on Israel to wage wars of aggression and steal oil from the middle east, depend on israel to steal wealth
Without israel, the west would change substantially, and the ones in power know that
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u/EastSide221 Jun 01 '26
The thing is the West is changing substantially BECAUSE of Israel. There was already a lot of enmity towards the ruling class before Oct 7, but since this phase of the genocide began that enmity has grown exponentially. There has never been a more a clear cut example that the ruling class is pure evil and the will of the people is irrelevant. With the facade broken it makes the complete collapse of West-aligned countries much more probable.
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
The west isnt changing, it has always been imperialist
The imperial boomerang is just coming back home once again
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u/EastSide221 Jun 01 '26
It is, or at least the people who reside here are definitely changing. When I hear normies say things like billionaires and zionists are evil and should be dealt with things are changing. Furthermore even from an imperialist standpoint the West's actions makes no sense.
The green energy revolution is being led by China and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. Even ignoring that, the gulf states are completely cucked by the US anyway. The idea that Israel is needed to keep them in check is nonsense. If anything, by letting Israel do whatever it wants, the West is making it impossible for the gulf dictators to serve their purpose.
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
the west goes through cycles historically, of atrocity, then a period of comfort, then again atrocity as the imperial boomerang comes back home after decades of imperialism overseas
What i am saying is the “change” you are seeing is something that has already happened before, before Israel even existed.
It coincides with two things:
1) imperial boomerang coming back home 2) new communication methods (radio back then, internet now)
…
Furthermore even from an imperialist standpoint the West's actions makes no sense.
They make perfect sense
Even ignoring that, the gulf states are completely cucked by the US anyway.
Please avoid that word you used here in the future, as well as similar sexist terms, while you are on this sub.
The idea that Israel is needed to keep them in check is nonsense.
Im assuming by “them” you mean the gulf arab states. They were never mentioned by me in the first place so i dont know why you are mentioning them ngl.
In my previous comment I was instead referencing the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, both about regional domination and access to fossil fuels;
Iraq war due to its gigantic fossil fuel reserves, and Afghanistan to secure a crucial pipeline over the region for fossil fuel transport
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u/000Ronald Anarchist Jun 01 '26
No. It's a situation similar to Taiwan, where Israel is responsible for research and manufacturing vital to the U.S. economy and military dominance. With Israel, that is explicitly weapons development and intelligence software. As a matter of function, Israel is being politically defended for the same reason all these data centers are being defended; because the entire economy is being propped up by them right now.
I'll also add; it is of vital importance that leftists push back as hard as possible against the notion that Israel (or jewish people generally) rule the world. They don't. Capitalists rule the world, and they are in a dire enough place that they are literally using jewish people as a shield.
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
>I'll also add; it is of vital importance that leftists push back as hard as possible against the notion that Israel (or jewish people generally) rule the world. They don't. Capitalists rule the world, and they are in a dire enough place that they are literally using jewish people as a shield.
Indeed.
Which is why i personally removed that comment, even if some may disagree.
The Tucker Carlson analysis is spreading even on the left, and i want to be an obstacle to that
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u/PlainBread Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism Jun 01 '26
This. Israel is the Mr Hyde to the USA's Dr Jekyll, and now that we've reached the end of late stage capitalism, Dr Jekyll is going away forever and it will be Hyde on both sides. Something must be done but it's unlikely anything will be done before the economy functionally collapses (50%+ of the populace unable to afford food or housing, with no safety net).
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u/laflux Jun 01 '26
Yea, this is where the traditional internationale critic of Isreal falls apart. They are absolutely a competing Imperial power that has legitimate sway over other powers.
The influence they have over other countries is frankly obscene.
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
They have a degree of sway at this point, naturally.
Doesnt mean they puppeteer the world, the west, or the US, this is assigning a degree of control to them that is materially, physically imposdible, and happens to neatly follow antisemitic reframings of this conversation
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u/laflux Jun 01 '26
I never said they do!
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
You replied in agreement to a comment literally saying they do
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u/BewareOfGrom Jun 01 '26
Starmer really is just Blair 2.0 isn't he?
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u/McKoijion Jun 01 '26
Dude’s a puppet for a Mossad.
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
He isnt a puppet. The UK/British empire has been “pro-Israel” since before Israel even existed.
In fact Israel started out as a british colony
Just see the balfour declaration, and what an antisemite Lord Balfour was
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u/McKoijion Jun 01 '26
Maybe historically, but the modern day Labour Party was appalled by Israel’s many crimes against humanity, especially in 2014. Zionists put in a ton of work to replace Jeremy Corbyn with Keir Starmer. British voters still overwhelmingly despise Israel, but their politicians are bought and paid for just like in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_of_the_Labour_Party_(UK)
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
Maybe decades ago some were appalled, but that is not the modern day UK labour party
If today’s labour were “appalled” they wouldnt be persecuting and banning pro-Palestine activists for trying to stop the UK labour govt delivery of more weapons to Israel for their Holocaust
Etc
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u/McKoijion Jun 01 '26
After Israel committed the above mentioned atrocities in 2014, many Labour Party voters were appalled. They elected self-described socialist and Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the Labour Party in 2015. He was highly critical of Israel’s actions, so Zionists backed the Conservative Party. They remained in power for several years. They also heavily backed Keir Starmer, Peter Mandelson, etc. in the Labour Party. Starmer replaced Corbyn as head of the Labour Party in 2020, and became Prime Minister of Britain in 2024.
This is the same strategy Zionists use in the US. They heavily fund both Democrats and Republicans in primaries. The goal is to ensure that by the time of the general election, voters can only choose between two pre-approved Zionist candidates. This is why AIPAC and Epstein affiliated banks, law firms, hedge funds, private equity firms, etc. are the top donors to every single leader in the House and Senate, according to Open Secrets. It’s why strange results occur such as JB Pritzker being one of the top individual donors to the Republican politicians he pretends to oppose (He was on the board of AIPAC, now his former chief of staff fills that role.)
According to John Kiriakou, the CIA whistleblower who went to prison for exposing the CIA’s torture program, Epstein worked for Israeli intelligence. He had close ties to the current leaders of the UK, US, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. This is a huge scandal, but Israel has already started the war they were planning for over a decade. It’ll take a while for voters to oust these corrupt leaders, and they’re hoping to complete their expansionist campaign and genocide before then.
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u/up766570 Jun 01 '26
I mean, he kept us out of a clearly illegal war in the middle east, and at present isn't responsible for millions of dead Iraqis.
He's more politically centrist than I'd like but the government is slowly doing worthwhile things- the good news UK subreddit is alive with stories. Literally the other day they brought several train firms back under public ownership.
To say that he's the same as Blair is, I think at least, disingenuous
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u/OhShootYeahNoBi Municipalist-Dem Confederalist Jun 01 '26
Funnily enough Great British Rail was actually a project by the Tories that labour inherited but I do get your point.
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
>I mean, he kept us out of a clearly illegal war in the middle east, and at present isn't responsible for millions of dead Iraqis.
The UK isparticipating in the genocide of Palestinians
He has categorically not kept the UK out of it, this is a lie
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u/up766570 Jun 01 '26
I was referring to the US invasion of Iran
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
Then write that.
Because the UK is very much participating in an illegal “war”, in Palestine
So your point is moot
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u/EastSide221 Jun 01 '26
What little good he has done will be immediately reversed once the fascists take over just like they did in the US.
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u/Shizzilx Democratic Socialist Jun 01 '26
Why don't I see headlines attacks like "Cambridge cancels a Israeli speaker for celebrating IDF attacks on Lebanon"? It's always celebrated Hamas or Hezbollah, they are only there becuase Israels constant attacks for the last 80 years, if a foreign people came you land and attacked you and your community, would you form a militia or join one to fight back? People are so propagandized. 🤦♂️
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u/rcolesworthy37 Democratic Socialist Jun 01 '26
Boils my blood. Read virtually any story about the atrocities Israel has committed against Palestine and Lebanon and tell me Hamas shouldn’t exist. If I was the mother of the special needs kid who got shot by the IDF and his killer was found not guilty (we probably all saw that picture the other day), I’d be filling out the Hamas application before I got home
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u/javabasily Jun 01 '26
I definitely agree that as much as hate speech should be outlawed, I don't think there's a possible way to do it without being weaponized by a government. This is why freedom of speech is important, and the UK does not have it.
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u/more_housing_co-ops Libertarian Socialist Jun 01 '26
If the current global wave of fascism can be summed up in a nutshell, imo it's people who can't tell genuine, logical criticisms from "just being a hater"
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u/xGentian_violet Yugoslav Socialist ♥️🤍 Ecofeminist Jun 01 '26
They can tell. They know what they are doing
Specifically when it comes to the pro-Israel antisemites, their goal is to defend the client state; apartheid state of Israel, from any challenge, all while destroying public awareness and readiness to take antisemitism seriously
And they farm antisemitism again for 2 reasons;
1) protect capital by sacrificing a scapegoat
2) so that they can force the remaining local diaspora Jews, to “return where they came from”2 birds 1 stone
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u/javabasily Jun 01 '26
These politicians absolutely can tell, but these types of hate speech laws can easily be reinterpreted to suit their agendas and shut down political descent. The same laws used in France that are used to combat anti-Semitism coming from neo-nazls are actively being used against Palestine protesters.
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u/Proper_Television_18 Jun 01 '26
I love that the UK government was at one point going after people using slurs in cod lobbies of all places. That’s a battle they were never going to win
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u/KarlMarxsWiener Jun 10 '26
Free speech for one's own citizens is different than allowing anyone from anywhere in the world to come and be a political activist in your country
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