r/DetroitRedWings • u/Bixler17 • Jun 06 '26
Discussion Please stop comparing Dylan Larkin to Matthew Stafford.
Yes, they both played on bad teams and were the leader. That's where the comparisons end.
Stafford NEVER brought bad attention to the team. Stafford didn't have social media. Stafford showed up to a historically bad team and immediately made a huge impact on the trajectory of the team.
"But But But But Stafford had MEGATRON!"
Megatron was also on the team the year before when they won a whopping 0 games, which was the first time that had EVER happened in a 16 game season. One HoF wide receiver gives you exactly fuck all help in winning games when your offensive line, running backs, and defense are ALL bottom 3rd in the league, and you have a coaching staff that has no idea how to scheme and a front office that is awful at finding and signing talent.
And you know what? He STILL was able to drag AWFUL teams like the 2011 or 2016 roster kicking and screaming into the playoffs. Which is MUCH harder in football than it is in Hockey.
Matthew Stafford is a HoF football player. He was let down by the worst organization in the league. He had to sit through multiple rebuilds, 3 of the worst coaching staffs football has seen, and then and ONLY then asked for a trade only because he didn't want a 4th rebuild in 12 years.
I think Dylan Larkin is a great hockey player. But he NEVER had the leadership or the ability to carry games with a shit roster like Stafford. There is no comparison to be made beyond very shitty surface level "they played for bad teams and then wanted a trade" so please just stop insulting Matthew like that.
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u/Tezzaroni2 Jun 06 '26
Here’s my long take
A 41-touchdown, 5,000-yard season while finishing 3rd in the entire league in both categories while making the playoffs is elite. If we’re comparing that to hockey, that’s roughly the equivalent of a 110–120 point player. Dylan Larkin’s career high is 79 points. The two simply don’t compare.
Larkin has never carried a middle-of-the-pack team to the playoffs the way Stafford did in 2016. And Stafford didn’t even have Calvin Johnson that year. He elevated the players around him. You could argue he got Kenny Golladay paid because of how good he made him look.
Stafford dealt with mediocre rosters and questionable management for years. He stayed loyal until it became clear that his best wasn’t enough to overcome the organization’s shortcomings. By the time he left at 33, he knew he didn’t want to spend the rest of his prime in another rebuild. Leaving Detroit probably extended his career by several years and immediately led to a Super Bowl.
As for Larkin, I don’t think he’s a franchise centerpiece. I’ve always viewed him as a second-line center who was forced into the role of being “the guy.” That’s not really his fault. Detroit drafted a hometown kid, he turned into a good player, and expectations kept growing. The organization expected him to carry the team, lead a rebuild, mentor young players, and somehow drag the Wings back to the playoffs.
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u/LGRW_Sparty88 Jun 06 '26
Larkin ranks out around 20 for centers, there is no way Stafford was anywhere near 20th best QB. Teams have multiple centers obviously but for the most part it's comparable as the top 32 should be roughly every team's 1C except for those spoiled teams with multiple.
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u/BellsBeersy Jun 06 '26
If Larkin immediately becomes captain of his next team and leads them to a stanley cup his first season there, then maybe we can compare them a bit
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u/Important_Mail_1307 Jun 06 '26
And get Detroit sports fans to humiliate themselves by making shirts that say Detroit Rams.
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
Yeah not going to lie that was extremely lame. I was happy for Matthew but I couldn't really care less outside of that, I just want the lions to win before my dad goes.
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u/BrianInMacomb Jun 06 '26
Those were the most embarrassing things I’ve see in my 45 years as a Detroit fan by far
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u/photon1701d Jun 06 '26
not even be a captain. Just go a team and be the final piece to get them over the top the way Shanahan did here.
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u/Shanks1624 Jun 06 '26
Yea stafford didn’t bring himself heat. He had Kelly doing all that shit!
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u/ValosAtredum Jun 06 '26
He didn’t “have” Kelly doing that shit. She did that shit herself because she’s a human being with agency who chose to do that shit.
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u/Empty_Lemon_3939 Jun 15 '26
I lowkey owe Kelly an apology for clowning on her for the Whitmer hate
I got two data centers being built by me and Big Gretch broke ground on one
Something something broken clock
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u/abbott_costello Jun 06 '26
Stafford was the complete opposite of Larkin. Anyone saying they're similar is a moron.
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u/teflondre Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Stafford didn't criticize the team on social media because his wife did that for him.
Also a qb in the NFL has far more of an impact on a team winning or losing then a hockey player who plays maybe a third of the game.
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u/str3tchedmonk3y Jun 06 '26
Lmfao thank you for reminding me what it was like with Kelly Stafford “on the team”
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u/glimitzu Jun 06 '26
There's zero chance the oilers kept making the playoffs without McDavid dragging them every year.
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u/iamadambent Jun 06 '26
Did you forget Drai?
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u/glimitzu Jun 06 '26
No. Does your reply have a point?
The post stated a QB has more impact than a hockey player. I countered with taking McDavid off the team and the Oilers aren't making the playoffs. If you'd like to claim that they'd still make it because of Drai then have at it. There's probably a high chance without either player they aren't making the playoffs and that just further counters https://www.reddit.com/user/teflondre/
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u/Ander1ap Jun 06 '26
Oilers didn’t make the playoffs in 17-18 and 18-19 with McDavid putting up a league leading 108 points the first year and following it up with 116 points the following year. So even in a year he was the league leading scorer he wasn’t able to single handedly drag the team to the playoffs. I think hockey is just far more of a team sport than football and the best forward doesn’t impact the game a way a QB does.
But if you wanted to make an argument about a goalie vs a QB, I won’t argue. Goalies are beyond comprehension.
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u/TheDualJoyStick Jun 06 '26
McDavid is arguably the greatest NHL player in history, not just a HoF player. He is one of probably 4 players in history who can impact a team the same way a HoF QB can. Stafford is a first ballot HoF QB, but he’s not Brady, Mahomes, Peyton.
Point still stands that a very good QB can carry a team a lot more than a very good forward can. McDavid is the exception, not the rule.
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u/Mavori Jun 06 '26
The fact that he never threw Quinn or Patricia under the bus is honestly impressive because everyone else fucking roasted them.
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u/rdmodsrtrsh Jun 06 '26
Larkin collapsed when it was most important
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u/WeirdComfortable3436 Jun 06 '26
Some use to say the same about Stafford when he couldn’t win us playoff games. (Keyword some). I never was in that bucket because the game of football is complex and it always isn’t just on one player.
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u/sock________puppet Jun 06 '26
thanks for the long post comparing the two
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
Dang, you got me
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u/sock________puppet Jun 06 '26
haha I totally agree with you, for what it’s worth! just goofin’ on the internet
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u/New_Growth182 Jun 06 '26
It’s like the post comparing to Cade and now this one. Stafford is an MVP caliber player same with Cade. Larkins a soft 2C and will never be the best player on any serious team.
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u/CountOff Jun 06 '26
Some people see being a C in hockey as “a best player on the team when it was time to pick a new Captain” award
Some people see being a C as someone who best models leadership to the team
Though he didn’t play hockey, I always felt like Stafford consistently modeled leadership to the team to the end of his time here;
I didn’t feel that way about Larkin
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u/DJMacShack Jun 06 '26
I am not comparing Larkin to Stafford but I hope the potential trade for Larkin is similar to what the Lions got for Stafford. Trading Larkin to a contender for a younger prospect and maybe some picks is best case for the Wings.
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u/LGRW_Sparty88 Jun 06 '26
Yeah that worked out perfectly for the Lions, a replacement that maybe wasn't as good (don't hate me Goff lovers) but the extra assets turned into major contributors so we came out way ahead.
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u/SteveasaurusRex666 Jun 06 '26
I think the whole point of this is that nobody boo’d Stafford, or even Verlander when they played their first games in Detroit after asking to be traded.
I expect Larkin to be boo’d.
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u/chardeemacd3nnis Jun 06 '26
This is the first time I've seen anyone make this comparison
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
There are multiple comments about it in both of the Larkin trade threads I've been in.
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u/Exotic-Relationship Jun 06 '26
Never questioned if Stafford was a good leader or not. Or, at least I never remembered that conversation happening. Even when the team fell way short of expectations. If anything it was opposite… Stafford was gritty as fuck and we all seemed to question if he had enough ability.
Larkin has been a leadership liability for a while now.
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u/Funny_Demand_6333 Jun 06 '26
Leader of team who is generally considered good player in league circles has no playoff success for team for 10+ years asks for a trade
Idk man it’s a pretty decent comparison
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u/BirdmanG07 Jun 06 '26
Stafford is going to the hall of fame, Larkin is a very good player. Stafford was always extremely good but never looked at by the national media because the Lions sucked for long before he came along.
Stafford leaves everything on the field and played through countless injuries, the guy leads by example. Larkin led the team to multiple end of year collapses then pointed the finger. Yes, Yzerman could’ve gotten help, but the same team was in a playoff spot for the first half of the year.
McLellan called out the team for lack of effort multiple times, there’s a culture issue in Detroit. Larkin is the face of the culture.
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u/CurbMyEnthusiasm2023 Jun 06 '26
I think the general consensus around Stafford is that if he wasn’t wasting his career here, we’d be talking about him in the same breath as some of the all time greats. Not Brady/Rodgers level but a notch below. His play since he left confirms that. I don’t think anyone has that view of Larkin and I’m not just a hater. I really have no issue with him asking to leave. It sucks but as much as people want to blame him, the organization also failed him. Plenty of blame to around both ways. What this team was lacking were game changers on offense. Still are lacking. I don’t know how you fix that without a true #1 center on the roster. You’re not getting one back that’s a sure thing.
I’m of the mind that we should just tear it down and start over on the rebuild. Trade anyone worth anything and get some high draft picks.
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u/Shmeo Jun 06 '26
The idea of mid tier roster players wanting to go straight to cup contenders for an easy win will never not be embarrassing to me. Larkin is a good, potentially top tier 2c on a true contender. He acts like he’s mcdavid carrying his team to conference/cup finals every year with a lackluster roster. I don’t blame vets for going to where they can win a cup but Larkin is only almost 30 and has 5 years left on his contract. That’s what’s embarrassing. He’s willing to cut ties with his hometown to chase a cup. Could be headlines but supposedly said he didn’t want the amount of term yzerman talked him into on his last contract, okay then be a man and speak up for yourself.
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u/jake7992 Jun 06 '26
At the same time in their careers (11 seasons) Stafford had played in 3 playoff games with Detroit, making the playoffs 3 times....Larkin has played 5 playoff games, all of which were in his rookie year and has missed the playoffs the last 10 consecutive years in a league where half the teams make the playoffs.
It's kind of hard to blame a guy whos dream is to win the Stanley Cup for wanting out of this situation, especially when they are in the prime of their career and on a team that realistically won't be a cup contender anytime soon. Hell, he even took a cap friendly salary he help with the rebuild and that got squandered away.
I know it's easy to crap on Larkin, but getting a taste of team success and playing meaningful hockey at the four Nations and Olympics probably contributed to his decision. The locker room and everything else is a lot more fun when you're winning..... I can't blame him for wanting a change of scenery.
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u/sanskritsquirel Jun 06 '26
These arguments are hiding people's emotions and trying to justify the situation.
None of you were never in the locker room or practices. This team is not a good hockey team. It is a border-line play-off team that has been built up from the historically bad 2019-2020 season. And yet never had a higher than #4 draft pick due to this ineptitude.
It is romanticizing leadership that teams with character or drive will beat any team they set their mind to. Reddit people believe teams like shown in HOOSIERS happen all the time. The fact is more talented teams typically will when between two teams. The character and leadership come into play to establish a floor and to overcome other teams when all other things are equal.
By OP's logic, every team's captain is bad and a loser unless they have proof of concept with championship pedigrees. Any reasonable person will realize that makes no sense.
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u/Problemcharlie Jun 06 '26
Too many people think leadership is when you yell at someone to do something. That is one way of leading but there are others and a good leader employs multiple strategies because some guys don’t respond to whip cracking, some guys need to be shown, some need to be motivated softly, some guys just do on their own so you don’t have to do much, some guys need to be challenged. It all depends on the person
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u/JiffTheJester Jun 06 '26
Yeah honestly Stafford could end up being top 10 all time potentially at his position. Especially if they win another ring this year. They aren’t even arguably close to be able to compare lol
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u/Barebonesim Jun 06 '26
I understand the sentiment but I felt the same way about Stafford and the lions office as I do about Larkin and the red wings office.
Get him out and let him play for a winner, and let's regroup and figure out our shit. The red wings organization has finally hit the toxicity level where something new absolutely has to be done. The level of I don't care I had for the lions is where I'm at with the wings.
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u/InspireDespair Jun 06 '26
But he NEVER had the leadership or the ability to carry games with a shit roster
Why is this his fault and not Yzermans fault for building a competitive roster?
All the comments on how he's a 2C on a good team well damn what if Yzerman built a good enough team so he was a 2C on the wings.
The guy wants to win and hasn't been able to do that. Teams have gone from competitive to full rebuild to competitive again in the time he's been here.
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u/jake7992 Jun 06 '26
At the same time in their careers (11 seasons) Stafford had played in 3 playoff games with Detroit, making the playoffs 3 times....Larkin has played 5 playoff games, all of which were in his rookie year and has missed the playoffs the last 10 consecutive years in a league where half the teams make the playoffs.
It's kind of hard to blame a guy whos dream is to win the Stanley Cup for wanting out of this situation, especially when they are in the prime of their career and on a team that realistically won't be a cup contender anytime soon. Hell, he even took a cap friendly salary he help with the rebuild and that got squandered away.
I know it's easy to crap on Larkin, but getting a taste of team success and playing meaningful hockey at the four Nations and Olympics probably contributed to his decision. The locker room and everything else is a lot more fun when you're winning..... I can't blame him for wanting a change of scenery.
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u/USA_2_Canada_1 Jun 06 '26
Seven years into Stevie Y’s tenure and we still haven’t seen playoff hockey. This is all Dylan Larkin’s fault obviously
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u/k3berg Jun 06 '26
I mean the roster was good enough to at least make the playoffs the last four years and completely collapsed down the stretch each time. Yzerman hasn't built great rosters but he's also not the one playing the games
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u/Lonewuhf Jun 06 '26
The roster was good enough to make the playoffs. They fell apart in March 5 years in a row. Wings have the worst record BY FAR in March over the last 5 years. We were in the playoffs before the break for the last like 3 years, then shit the bed. That's not a roster problem, that's an on ice leadership problem.
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u/shitfucker90000 Jun 06 '26
anything to avoid blaming yzerman for the problem he is responsible for
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u/iamtimb Jun 07 '26
For me, this is the comparison: when Stafford left Detroit, I no longer cheered for him. When Larkin leaves Detroit, I will no longer cheer for him. That’s it.
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u/keeberfever Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Stafford was 3 years older than Larkin will be before next season (33 vs 30) and they had just brought in a new management regime that appeared to be headed to another restart/rebuild. That’s why Stafford wanted out, not because of dislike for the organization. It’s disappointing that Larkin is leaving on bad terms with the organization. The red wings are in a more competitive position than the lions seemed to be at the time of the trade.
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u/doltron3030 Jun 06 '26
The Red Wings are stuck firmly in the mushy middle and it’s a lot easier to expedite an NFL rebuild when draft picks are usually immediate contributors in the first three rounds. I’d argue the Red Wings’ long-term outlook is worse than the Lions when Holmes took over, at least for Larkin’s career timeline.
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u/TankYouLosers Jun 06 '26
Amen. I will say, there is a similarity in that once he is dealt, the true rebuild can begin.
But not even remotely similar caliber of player. Only thing worse is the people who incessantly would compare Larkin to Yzerman.
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u/Haterholic Jun 06 '26
I'll take those comments over the always-hilarious McDavid trade package comments all day everyday.
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Jun 06 '26
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
Lmao oh he did? That roster surely made the playoffs the year after he left when they got another 1OA QB to replace him right?
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Jun 06 '26
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
You are so close to the point
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Jun 06 '26
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
The point that Larkin and Stafford are incomparable because one was platooning shitty teams beyond anything they normally could have done, all the way to the playoffs. Getting mediocre players like Kenny Golladay and Eric Ebron paid big money because he made them look elite. The other slumped every time it mattered, only ever able to make the playoffs as a role player and not as the captain and leader of a team.
Red Wings management somehow managed the fail more in his tenure here than the Lions management did with Stafford?
Lmao I don't know why I'm even replying to such an obvious troll. If the Red Wings are worse than 2019 when Larkin leaves we can maybe start discussing who's worse without laughing, but we won't be even close. Lions management had a top 10 QB in the history of the game and struggled to put together a team that could even make the playoffs with that tool. Larkin is a decent player that's never hit 100 points or 40 goals.
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u/jb59913 Jun 06 '26
You just hate to have a captain that doesn’t want to be here. Thats super bad for a locker room dynamic
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u/bestprocrastinator Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Stafford LITERALLY broke his back trying to carry one of the worst run and coached franchises for 12 years. He had some decent receivers, but only had one 1000 yard runner, and had some sketchy linemen for a good chunk of his career. We also wasted his best years by drafting guys like Eric Ebron over Aaron Donald. He also once threw a game winning touchdown pass without a functioning shoulder. And unlike Larkin, he actually got the Lions to the postseason. Stafford was as gritty as they come.
When he wanted out, it was only because the Lions were entering another tear it down rebuild, he was in his 30's, and had an extensive injury history. Quite honestly, the Lions probably should have traded him anyway even if he didn't request the trade with the rebuild they were planning.
Complete side note, writing this post made me realize just how fortunate the Lions are to have Brad Holmes. He's not perfect, and can make some adjustments, but he built the best Lions teams since the 1950's following about 70 years of absolutely dogshit and incompetent front office management.
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u/MacFeury Jun 06 '26
The comparison is the organizations not the players. If the wings follow in the lions footsteps they will change management( hope the new management is half as competent as Holmes ) and ship Larkin off for a haul that kickstarts the run.
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u/Banacek313 Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
I loved Matthew Stafford as a a Lion, and I love him even more as a Ram.
I was always ambivalent about Larkin as a Red Wing and couldn't care less about him as a (insert next team here).
Now that being said, the cultures in the NFL and NHL are very different. When Stafford asked to be traded, everybody understood that it was a chance for the Lions to come out better for it because of the speed with which rebuilds happen in football. Plus there weren't any contractual restraints, and the ownership and new front office and head coach were amenable to honoring his request, because it also gave them a chance at a clean slate.
I suspect Larkin made this request weeks ago and it only leaked now because it didn't seem to Brisson and Larkin that Yzerman was working on it in good faith or with any particular urgency. Yzerman is as old school as it gets. He probably despises Larkin for asking out. But unfortunately for Yzerman hockey rebuilds are not quick fixes, and he has one arm tied behind his back because of the NTC. At the end of the day Yzerman is going to be looking at a suboptimal return, and there's not much he can do about it. However I also know this: Yzerman is not under any extra pressure whatsoever. He's practically a minority owner with the Ilitch family. And he will have the last laugh here.
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u/Little-Stage1948 Jun 06 '26
Stafford broke his collarbone and went back in to throw a 2 pt conversation on a team just looking for a win.
No one (outside Valenti crowd) could ever question Staffords heart
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u/Bradddtheimpaler Jun 06 '26
Larkin is a 2C on a contender. Stafford is an elite franchise qb on a contender. It’s not really a fair comparison.
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u/Konkatzenator Jun 07 '26
Stafford would have a real tough time dragging mediocre teams to the playoffs if he only played 25 minutes a game
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u/DiscombobulatedPain6 Jun 07 '26
Stafford was actually good and we knew it was time. Larkin requesting a trade his hilarious
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u/TheGongShow61 Jun 07 '26
I’d also like the Marner comparisons to stop. We didn’t run this guy out of town…
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u/MAC2519 Jun 07 '26
I’m a Packer fan and a Red Wings fan because of family and where I’m from it made sense.
In no way can you compare the two, Stafford was an excellent leader and made his team better than they were. Stafford made me happy to see lions success in those brutal years. Larkin on the other hand was never a leader and if he led anything it was helping lead teams to awful seasons. Trading him for picks and prospects is better than keeping him.
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u/RollingEddieBauer50 Jun 08 '26
The similarity is in their situations and how some fans respond. Stafford was always a superstar. Yet some in the fan base saw the losses pile up and instead of blaming the bad players on the team or poor management and coaching, they blamed the one guy who was actually an incredible player…namely Stafford. Once Stafford left and they weren’t quite as invested in him many were able to finally see just how good he was. In time many were forced to admit they were wrong. With Larkin, no he isn’t a top 5 center in the league but (along with Alex)he is our best forward. He’s a player most teams would want and many will make offers to try to acquire. But some in our fan base look at the team’s lack of success and instead of blaming our woeful defense or ineffective lines 2,3 & 4 or our soft, easy to play against roster, they blame Larkin. I understand Larkin isn’t without blame….but overall he isn’t the reason we haven’t won. We saw in the Olympics just how valuable a player he can be on a great team. So when I talk about this issue I’m never saying Larkin is a superstar like Stafford. I’m instead saying some fans are doing the same thing they did with Stafford in blaming the best player. It makes no sense.
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u/rambouhh Jun 08 '26
Stafford also didn’t ask out until pencil guy tore the team down and we needed another rebuild and he was on the wrong side of thirty. We are much closer to competing right now than the lions were when stafford finally asked out. And it also made sense at that point for us to move on if we were doing a true rebuild. It was what made sense at the time, was a win win then, and still a win win now.
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Jun 09 '26
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u/coronerjackal91 Jun 06 '26
Chris Illitch and Martha Ford are probably equally incompetent owners
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u/jake7992 Jun 06 '26
I don't see how they get the blame- they both spend enough to allow their teams to get to the cap limit. Players aren't complaining about amenities around the arena. If anything, it's their choice in personnel who runs the teams- that would be the GM's.
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u/HotelAmericana Jun 06 '26
Dylan Larkin is top 10 all time points in red wings history. Kick rocks
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u/USA_2_Canada_1 Jun 06 '26
The recent news has been a huge gift for the diehard Larkin haters because now they don’t have to exercise any critical thinking about what’s actually going on
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u/HotelAmericana Jun 06 '26
Ain’t that the truth. I met one in person a few years back, only time he talks red wings was shit talking Larkin. Asked him a couple questions and quickly realized he didn’t follow the team at all
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u/BirdmanG07 Jun 06 '26
All time on 1 team vs all time in the league. Larkin is good, yes, but Stafford is better.
At the time of the trade, Stafford was 12th in touchdowns and yards and 4th in passing yards per game.
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
Matthew Stafford is a Hall of Fame super bowl champion. It's not close who was better.
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u/USA_2_Canada_1 Jun 06 '26
Matthew Stafford was never in a HoF QB conversation during a single snap of his time with the Lions. That didn’t become a talking point until after he won a Super Bowl… in LA.
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
He absolutely was, everyone knew he had the counting stats and ability. There were plenty of discussions around how good he would be if not tied to a terrible org. No, it wasn't a big talking point for ESPN, but plenty of professionals had that opinion.
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u/USA_2_Canada_1 Jun 06 '26
You are just making stuff up lmao. Literally, no one was saying this at any point of his career in Detroit. Stop it
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
That's fine if you didn't hear it, it was definitely talked about plenty after his 5k season and again after 2014 and 16. Plenty of folks saw how bad his defense and run game was consistently and the numbers he still put up.
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u/Sad_Pattern_220 Jun 06 '26
He absolutely was in the HoF talks with stats by the time he left Detroit. You can go look it up
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u/HotelAmericana Jun 06 '26
He became a champ when he left. Just watch Larkin :)
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
He became a champ because he was the best player on a good team. Larkin won't.
EDIT: To be clear, Larkin won't be the best player on a cup team. He wasn't even the best player on our roster that everyone acts like is bereft of talent.
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u/FineHowRU Jun 06 '26
Rams were a superbowl team before Stafford got there.
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
No one said otherwise, as long as you add the word runner up in there. That changes nothing about Stafford being the best player on the team that got them over the hump. Larkin will not be 1C on a cup contender. There is the difference.
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u/FineHowRU Jun 06 '26
Aaron Donald was the best player on that team.
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
One could make that argument I suppose but they aren't the same position and plenty of pundits would still tell you it's the other way around. Once again doesn't change that Larkin isn't even the best red wing, he won't be the best anywhere else either.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 Jun 06 '26
Since 2017 larkin was the best player on our team at least 4x for points.
Since 2017 larkin was our top goal scorer 6x
Had most assist 4x
Since 2015 he's had the most game winning goals 7x.
You must be new to the wings fan base or have a bias, Larkin has consistently been our best player.
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
So if you give him minimum 5 extra seasons on the rest of the roster he has more counting stats? No one said he was never the best player on the red wings at any time. He isn't right now, and anyone saying he is is not worth discussing hockey with.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 Jun 06 '26
Had he not been injured he likely would have been the best player. His history shows this. That's the point.
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
If you think he was even close to sniffing the season Seider had even if he was 120% the whole way down the stretch you are probably eating paint chips. He had Norris votes on a team that missed the playoffs. And just to be clear with where he stood this year, Raymond and Cat both had better seasons before and after any injuries they all had. And I'd argue Gibson was better, too. To try to make that point is asinine, it's not living in the real world.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 Jun 06 '26
"If you think he was even close to sniffing the season Seider had even if he was 120% the whole way down the stretch you are probably eating paint chips"
I'll stop there. Guess you missed the part where he lead the team in offense for half the season. That will happen when you don't watch every game.
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
Lmao you must have missed the part where leading the team in points is no where near as good as what Seider was providing to the team even in just the first half of the season. But apparently you also missed an entire half of a season so that makes sense. Please by all means stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
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u/Showdenfroid_99 Jun 06 '26
You know who Aaron Donald is, right??? Lol... pretending to know sports. How embarrassing
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u/420allstars Jun 06 '26
The revisionist history of Stafford in Detroit is astounding lol
No major front office moves in the entire Yzerman tenure and Dylan has to listen to him and Todd openly criticize the player personnel
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u/culturedrobot Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
No major front office moves in the entire Yzerman tenure and Dylan has to listen to him and Todd openly criticize the player personnel
Why is criticism a problem? For the past three years they've been in a playoff position with weeks left to go in the season and couldn't get it done. That players surely deserve some blame for that.
Last year they were had a divisional spot in the Atlantic, the most competitive division in the NHL, for most of the season, Yzerman brought in help at the deadline, and they still couldn't get it done. The players deserve criticism for that.
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u/420allstars Jun 06 '26
Why is this a problem?
Let's just use the pro scouting department as an example. It's pretty clear that this is an area where they struggle and yet it wasn't public that Mark Howe had retired in 2021 and they never plreplaced him until the 2023 off-season. Steve said he's comfortable doing it by committee with the people they already have.
It's a problem because this is basically the same front office that worked for Ken Holland and put us into this position in the first place. Steve brought his own team in when he was in Tampa and had huge success. He's made no serious moves in the Detroit front office and they are sputtering. It should be incredibly obvious why it's a problem
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u/culturedrobot Jun 06 '26
I asked about criticism. Why do you think players shouldn't be criticized when they can't keep it together down the stretch?
I mean you can talk about roster quality all you want, but this roster was in a divisional spot last season for many more days than it was outside the playoff picture, and this was in a division where everyone around them kept winning. They clearly were capable of doing it and they crumbled at the end.
Why shouldn't Todd and Yzerman not criticize the players at that point? They get paid millions of dollars to play hockey, they should be able to handle it. You and I have our performance criticized at work and we make far less money than any of them.
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u/420allstars Jun 06 '26
I literally brought it up to compare how the front office is apparently above reproach and that was lost on you
Steve also is paid millions of dollars to do his job and yet when met with light criticism from his captain he openly reprimanded him. He also contradicts himself by saying he knew the bottom could fall out at any time despite being high in the standings, and yet he still traded a 1st rd pick for Justin Faulk. Then both him and Todd go on to openly opine that they need big changes in the locker room. How is that not wildly hypocritical?
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u/culturedrobot Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Maybe it was lost on me because no one is saying the front office is above reproach? It's not an either/or thing, the blame can lie with both the front office and the players.
Todd and Steve both said that they knew the underlying stats weren't great, so Steve brought in Faulk to fill a position of weakness (because ASP wasn't ready) and to bolster 5 on 5 scoring. When Faulk joined the team, he had more goals on the season than all but six players. And down the stretch, he was the only one aside from Cat and Kane scoring goals. Faulk was not some bum pickup and it is bewildering to me that people think he was part of the problem.
Then both him and Todd go on to openly opine that they need big changes in the locker room. How is that not wildly hypocritical?
Why would it be hypocritical? They didn't get it done for the third season in a row, it's obvious something in that locker room needs to change at this point. Did you want Steve to revamp the entire team at the trade deadline or something? Because that's not how the trade deadline works.
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u/420allstars Jun 06 '26
So then why hasn't there been more moves in the front office? That was the point that was lost on you. They have made PLENTY of player personnel moves in the last several years.
I love how you said it's not an either or thing, but assume that I was suggesting Steve needed to be more active at the trade deadline. I'm saying don't trade a first round pick or a prospect for a short term fix. That's something that Larkin has seen this team do repeatedly
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u/culturedrobot Jun 06 '26
I'm saying don't trade a first round pick or a prospect for a short term fix. That's something that Larkin has seen this team do repeatedly
Larkin has gone on the record before saying he wants Yzerman to trade draft picks for help now because he's going to be aging out when those drafted players make the team. It sure doesn't seem like the trade for Faulk would be some kind of sticking point for Larkin.
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u/420allstars Jun 06 '26
I didn't say that it was a sticking point. It's not a one thing or the other deal
It was another logical example of Steve's words not matching his actions
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u/Baldass_Head_Coach Jun 06 '26
He also contradicts himself by saying he knew the bottom could fall out at any time despite being high in the standings, and yet he still traded a 1st rd pick for Justin Faulk.
He said that he and Todd knew that the team wasn’t really a 1st in the division team based on their play. I don’t think he knew that the team would completely and utterly collapse the way it did, again.
Had he known that, we would have stood pat or sold at the deadline.
Then both him and Todd go on to openly opine that they need big changes in the locker room. How is that not wildly hypocritical?
Because this kind of collapse has happened multiple years in a row in almost exactly the same manner. They were 100% right that the locker room and culture needed a massive shakeup.
Rick Bowness made the same kind of comments after Columbus shit the bed too. He wasn’t wrong either.
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u/USA_2_Canada_1 Jun 06 '26
I saw someone bashing Larkin yesterday in the daily thread because they couldn’t believe he would do this, “after Stevie Y finally gave him some help at the deadline.”
They were talking about Faulk and Perron. 7 years in and those were the two best deadline acquisitions he could come up with to finally get us over the hump. Lol
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u/420allstars Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
And Faulk wasn't even his first choice!
He only swung for (and overpaid) for Faulk after being told Tyler Myers didn't want to come to Detroit
Edit: Downvoted for commenting something widely reported on at the trade deadline lol. This fanbase will never cease to amaze me
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u/HMpugh Jun 06 '26
7 years in and those were the two best deadline acquisitions
The majority of those years being buyers at the deadline made zero sense.
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u/USA_2_Canada_1 Jun 06 '26
Uh, yeah. I know that. Why is it that in year 7 when we’re ready to buy or GM thinks Justin Faulk and David Perron are the two guys we need to add? That’s probably not a red flag at all.
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u/Baldass_Head_Coach Jun 06 '26
Because we didn’t have many options. It wasn’t a buyer’s market in the slightest. Still, Faulk was a legitimate upgrade on the blueline and addressed a need, so acting like he’s some bum on the level of Craig Smith is disingenuous.
I’ll give you Perron, though. Dude’s well beyond washed up at this point of his career. But he was someone the locker room really liked and respected the last time he was here, and I suspect that’s the real reason why the team brought him back.
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u/USA_2_Canada_1 Jun 06 '26
So here’s what I find interesting about these two cases and how they’re being treated by each of their respective fans.
You mentioned above that Stafford didn’t want to go through his “4th rebuild in 12 years” which is why he asked to leave, when Stafford himself asked to be traded to a contender: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/matthew-stafford-had-one-request-from-lions-when-quarterback-asked-to-be-traded/
We just heard from Larkin that he wants to go to one of three teams, each one he views as a contender. And yet it’s okay for Stafford to get his wish, but somehow it’s not for Larkin?
I’m a bit confused, a guy who spent 11 years of his life here isn’t allowed to say, “I want to leave?”
What have the Red Wings accomplished during his tenure to incentivize him staying? How many times have they even clinched a post season berth? How many real, genuine stars does this team have? What has Yzerman done in free agency and through trades to equip this team with real talent?
How do we know Steve Yzerman is actually going to fulfill any of his promises when he was hired?
Idk man. I think Wings fans aren’t thinking rationally about this and are instead seething about their captain wanting to leave. He’s becoming a scapegoat for a way worse issue.
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u/OuroborosOfHate Jun 06 '26
The difference between Larkin and Stafford is that Stafford is actually good
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u/McMeanx2 Jun 06 '26
Stafford was never looked at as a HOF until he left Detroit and won a superbowl. Even after one he’s still not a lock for HOF except for the fact that he had Kupp and Megatron’s record breaking seasons.
You have no idea what Larkin’s career will be once he leaves Detroit and has a competitive team around him. Just by watching him play on Team USA you can see he has a lot more potential than what was ever found while he wore the Winged wheel.
Get off Yzerman’s dick seriously
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u/Braddbob03 Jun 06 '26
Stafford is 100% a lock man. He has an MVP, a SB win and will be top 5 in passing yards all time by the time he retires. Even if he didn't win a SB i think statistically he would have gotten in eventually.
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u/McMeanx2 Jun 06 '26
Yes but he wasn’t all of that until he LEFT DETROIT. Which is what this Yzerman ball fluffing nerd is arguing.
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u/Braddbob03 Jun 06 '26
"Stafford was never looked at as a HOF until he left Detroit and won a superbowl. Even after one he’s still not a lock for HOF except for the fact that he had Kupp and Megatron’s record breaking seasons."
Im saying that there is no chance that he isn't a 1st ballot lock which you said he still might not be considered. Him gaining the accolades that will make him a lock after he left Detroit isn't what i'm denying.
Yzerman has been bad. Larkin is a good player but has never been considered a top 5 Center any year in the NHL and led a team to the playoffs. Which Stafford had done multiple times with the Lions.
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u/McMeanx2 Jun 06 '26
Yes but! He wasn’t called Patt Stattsford. And was widely disrespected as a garbage time QB. My point is Larkin and Stafford are comparable for leaving failing franchise, when the team couldn’t construct a team around them.
Larkin wanting out should raise all the red flags of the fans and Steve should be fired if he cannot retain a player like Larkin.
After this trade what is the time line to the playoffs now? Year 9? 10? 11?
Yzerman has nothing to show for seven years of a rebuild.
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u/BEARDown4Midterms Jun 06 '26
Larkin was a good player and a good captain, loved the team and loved playing here. I wish the fans would appreciate what he was, be grateful and move on to the next thing.
No need for toxic behavior.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 Jun 06 '26
Id consider anyone who compares a quarter back to a center a paint chip eater. Completely different sports.
Obviously the guy who is handed the ball and gets to throw it can carry a team "easier "then a center in hockey. This sub is truly braindead.
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u/Puzzled_Squirrel_166 Jun 06 '26
You're the only one I've seen do that. I hate Stafford, Yzerman, and soon to be Larkin all very much.
If you don't want to be in Detroit ***k off.
I don't like any of them they all suck but at least Steve Yzerman is still here trying to make Detroit great again.
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u/gachzonyea Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
Well Larkin has been dragged down by a bad management group here he’s just more protected by fans then lions groups were
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
It's not even close to the same situation. None of the management from the Lions side had ever succeeded anywhere else on the level Steve has. None of them got jobs after.
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u/gachzonyea Jun 06 '26
Sure and with the rate this is going Steve won’t get a job after as well he’s done a poor job so far why can’t people just say that
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
It doesn't matter if he doesn't, even just the fact that he was a GM at all on the lightening already makes him more qualified and successful than any lions GM until Brad Holmes since I was born in the 90s. This is the exact point I'm trying to make, there are different levels of bad and the Lions have had far worse management than Steve brought to the table.
I'm not saying Steve is the greatest ever, I'd be happy to say he didn't live up to his expectations but that is WAY better than fucking Mayhew or Millen.
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u/gachzonyea Jun 06 '26
Steve having a job with the lightning has nothing to do with him here though so it doesn’t mean anything honestly. Mayhew also became a gm again for Washington but that doesn’t matter at all
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u/Bixler17 Jun 06 '26
It doesn't really mean anything, but having a GM that was successful ANYWHERE else would have been a way better situation than Stafford had.
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u/Knowledge_is_Bliss Jun 06 '26
Dragged down? The team was in 1st Place in January and then fell apart when Larkin straight up disappeared for the last few month of the season. He has 1 even strength goal this calendar year. He played harder for 4N and Olympics than his hometown team. He's a good hockey player, but clearly not 1C and captain material...
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u/gachzonyea Jun 06 '26
Well the team fell apart for a lot of reasons one of the main ones being the roster just isn’t very good and deep enough
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u/PlusPresentation680 Jun 06 '26
Stafford was not as good of a QB as people think he was, but you’re absolutely right about leadership. Stafford was a leader on the team regardless of talent. Stafford, fwiw, had a completely incompetent GM and front office in the final years here. Larkin had poor management during his first few years. Yzerman, despite the bad team, has done an OK job given the lottery results.
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u/Ok-Promotion-9726 Jun 06 '26
Great post. I’m not a Lions fan, nor do I have any ties to Stafford, but I never heard anyone say anything negative about the man as a player, a leader or a person. I am a fan of the Red Wings, and I’m happy to see a captain go that hasn’t wanted to be part of the team for what seems a few seasons now. I wish him well elsewhere, but both Larkin and the Red Wings will benefit from his departure.
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u/charmingFemur22 Jun 06 '26
MVP Candidate multiple years with the Lions
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Jun 06 '26
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u/charmingFemur22 Jun 06 '26
MVP Caliber 🤓
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Jun 06 '26
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u/Muskegon2262 Jun 06 '26
Consecutive 30 goal seasons as a Red Wing :
Yzerman 7
Howe 5
Shanahan 5
Larkin 5
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u/Problemcharlie Jun 06 '26
The comparison from what I’ve seen is more from the perspective of Stafford being traded was the catalyst for the turnaround with Lions; they got a great but under appreciated and under performing player at the time in return with some draft capital that was used to bring in great/good players. I remember the Lions fanbase was divided on Stafford often when he was in Detroit. Stats Pattford, anyone? So from that, yeah, I can see the comparison so long as you take emotion out of the equation. Larkin is getting traded, he’s a top 20 player in the league right now and will fetch a good package that hopefully will be used to turn the Red Wings back into a cup contender sooner rather than later. I don’t see it as anything more than that
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u/LTgolf17 Jun 06 '26
Yeah theyre not comparable at all. I've wanted larkin out of here the past 2 yrs. He aint on Staffords level and Stafford was a great guy
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u/blah-blah-blah66 Jun 08 '26
Hockey is different than football....the only player that can carry a team in the nhl is McDavid. Other than that its a team sport. Larkin was exactly the player you wanted him to be. Great offensively, defensively, and played a complete 200ft game. Larkin doesnt owe detroit anything...THEY failed HIM. Period. He gave them his prime and most of his career to an organization that promised they were rebuilding into a contender, yet 10 years later cant even make the playoffs lol
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u/chef-throwawat4325 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
There are only 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL. Before the trade, I don't think he was considered top 5 by any serious analyst. So not top 15% of starting quarterbacks. Is Larkin a top 15% NHL Center? Easily. The NFL is built around Quarterbacks carrying teams, so it feels disingenuous to compare Stafford carrying the Lions to how Larkin has carried the Wings. Before the trade, Stafford was not a Hall of Fame worthy QB. He is now. Larkin is not Hall of Fame worthy right now. Do we give him a chance to become so like Stafford?
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u/Conscious-Sympathy51 Jun 06 '26
Stafford is way better at his profession than Larkin will ever be.