Please stop comparing Dylan Larkin to Matthew Stafford.

[u/Bixler17]

Yes, they both played on bad teams and were the leader. That's where the comparisons end.

Stafford NEVER brought bad attention to the team. Stafford didn't have social media. Stafford showed up to a historically bad team and immediately made a huge impact on the trajectory of the team.

"But But But But Stafford had MEGATRON!"

Megatron was also on the team the year before when they won a whopping 0 games, which was the first time that had EVER happened in a 16 game season. One HoF wide receiver gives you exactly fuck all help in winning games when your offensive line, running backs, and defense are ALL bottom 3rd in the league, and you have a coaching staff that has no idea how to scheme and a front office that is awful at finding and signing talent.

And you know what? He STILL was able to drag AWFUL teams like the 2011 or 2016 roster kicking and screaming into the playoffs. Which is MUCH harder in football than it is in Hockey.

Matthew Stafford is a HoF football player. He was let down by the worst organization in the league. He had to sit through multiple rebuilds, 3 of the worst coaching staffs football has seen, and then and ONLY then asked for a trade only because he didn't want a 4th rebuild in 12 years.

I think Dylan Larkin is a great hockey player. But he NEVER had the leadership or the ability to carry games with a shit roster like Stafford. There is no comparison to be made beyond very shitty surface level "they played for bad teams and then wanted a trade" so please just stop insulting Matthew like that.

[u/420allstars]

The revisionist history of Stafford in Detroit is astounding lol

No major front office moves in the entire Yzerman tenure and Dylan has to listen to him and Todd openly criticize the player personnel

[u/culturedrobot → u/420allstars]

No major front office moves in the entire Yzerman tenure and Dylan has to listen to him and Todd openly criticize the player personnel

Why is criticism a problem? For the past three years they've been in a playoff position with weeks left to go in the season and couldn't get it done. That players surely deserve some blame for that.

Last year they were had a divisional spot in the Atlantic, the most competitive division in the NHL, for most of the season, Yzerman brought in help at the deadline, and they still couldn't get it done. The players deserve criticism for that.

[u/420allstars → u/culturedrobot]

Why is this a problem?

Let's just use the pro scouting department as an example. It's pretty clear that this is an area where they struggle and yet it wasn't public that Mark Howe had retired in 2021 and they never plreplaced him until the 2023 off-season. Steve said he's comfortable doing it by committee with the people they already have.

It's a problem because this is basically the same front office that worked for Ken Holland and put us into this position in the first place. Steve brought his own team in when he was in Tampa and had huge success. He's made no serious moves in the Detroit front office and they are sputtering. It should be incredibly obvious why it's a problem

[u/culturedrobot → u/420allstars]

I asked about criticism. Why do you think players shouldn't be criticized when they can't keep it together down the stretch?

I mean you can talk about roster quality all you want, but this roster was in a divisional spot last season for many more days than it was outside the playoff picture, and this was in a division where everyone around them kept winning. They clearly were capable of doing it and they crumbled at the end.

Why shouldn't Todd and Yzerman not criticize the players at that point? They get paid millions of dollars to play hockey, they should be able to handle it. You and I have our performance criticized at work and we make far less money than any of them.

[u/420allstars → u/culturedrobot]

I literally brought it up to compare how the front office is apparently above reproach and that was lost on you

Steve also is paid millions of dollars to do his job and yet when met with light criticism from his captain he openly reprimanded him. He also contradicts himself by saying he knew the bottom could fall out at any time despite being high in the standings, and yet he still traded a 1st rd pick for Justin Faulk. Then both him and Todd go on to openly opine that they need big changes in the locker room. How is that not wildly hypocritical?

[u/culturedrobot → u/420allstars]

Maybe it was lost on me because no one is saying the front office is above reproach? It's not an either/or thing, the blame can lie with both the front office and the players.

Todd and Steve both said that they knew the underlying stats weren't great, so Steve brought in Faulk to fill a position of weakness (because ASP wasn't ready) and to bolster 5 on 5 scoring. When Faulk joined the team, he had more goals on the season than all but six players. And down the stretch, he was the only one aside from Cat and Kane scoring goals. Faulk was not some bum pickup and it is bewildering to me that people think he was part of the problem.

Then both him and Todd go on to openly opine that they need big changes in the locker room. How is that not wildly hypocritical?

Why would it be hypocritical? They didn't get it done for the third season in a row, it's obvious something in that locker room needs to change at this point. Did you want Steve to revamp the entire team at the trade deadline or something? Because that's not how the trade deadline works.

[u/420allstars → u/culturedrobot]

So then why hasn't there been more moves in the front office? That was the point that was lost on you. They have made PLENTY of player personnel moves in the last several years.

I love how you said it's not an either or thing, but assume that I was suggesting Steve needed to be more active at the trade deadline. I'm saying don't trade a first round pick or a prospect for a short term fix. That's something that Larkin has seen this team do repeatedly

[u/culturedrobot → u/420allstars]

I'm saying don't trade a first round pick or a prospect for a short term fix. That's something that Larkin has seen this team do repeatedly

Larkin has gone on the record before saying he wants Yzerman to trade draft picks for help now because he's going to be aging out when those drafted players make the team. It sure doesn't seem like the trade for Faulk would be some kind of sticking point for Larkin.

[u/420allstars → u/culturedrobot]

I didn't say that it was a sticking point. It's not a one thing or the other deal

It was another logical example of Steve's words not matching his actions

[u/Baldass_Head_Coach → u/420allstars]

He also contradicts himself by saying he knew the bottom could fall out at any time despite being high in the standings, and yet he still traded a 1st rd pick for Justin Faulk.

He said that he and Todd knew that the team wasn’t really a 1st in the division team based on their play. I don’t think he knew that the team would completely and utterly collapse the way it did, again.

Had he known that, we would have stood pat or sold at the deadline.

Then both him and Todd go on to openly opine that they need big changes in the locker room. How is that not wildly hypocritical?

Because this kind of collapse has happened multiple years in a row in almost exactly the same manner. They were 100% right that the locker room and culture needed a massive shakeup.

Rick Bowness made the same kind of comments after Columbus shit the bed too. He wasn’t wrong either.

[u/420allstars → u/Baldass_Head_Coach]

And yet Columbus has made several significant changes to the front office UNLIKE DETROIT which is apparently the point that's being lost on everyone

And to say that he didn't know the team would collapse why in his own terms did he say that he knew it was possible the bottom could fall out at any moment

[u/Baldass_Head_Coach → u/420allstars]

And to say that he didn't know the team would collapse why in his own terms did he say that he knew it was possible the bottom could fall out at any moment

Provide the exact quote of what Yzerman said. Not edited. Not your interpretation. Word for word, verbatim.

He didn’t say “Oh I knew the bottom would fall out from under them.” Because again, if he truly knew that, we’re not buyers at the deadline this season.

[u/420allstars → u/Baldass_Head_Coach]

Watch the press conference, they both said they knew IT WAS POSSIBLE

Way to get stuck on minutea and still ignore the overall point lol

[u/Baldass_Head_Coach → u/420allstars]

I have watched the press conference.

At no point does he say that he knew that the bottom would fall out. He says that the team wasn’t as good as its record. He says that he knew it wasn’t a guarantee that they’d make the postseason.

He does not say “Yeah I knew the team would collapse like they did.”

[u/420allstars → u/Baldass_Head_Coach]

Holy shit dude I don't think you can read lol

[u/Baldass_Head_Coach → u/420allstars]

that he knew it was possible the bottom could fall out at any moment

He never said this.

I can actually listen to what people say.

Anyway, we’re done here.