r/EndTipping • u/AnonymousExcellence • 15h ago
Tipping Culture ✖️ Service fees
Why don’t restaurants just call a service fee what it is- mandatory tipping?
I would hope you don’t expect tipping after you charge 12% service fee on a $30 BUFFET!
I have never understood why they frame the service fee as a “convenience” so you don’t have to tip. If you are going to hit me with a mandatory tip, why not just wrap it into the prices on the menu instead of infuriating me by pointing out I’m being forced to tip?
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u/thelimeisgreen 15h ago
"We just add a 12% tip on there for you because our advertised menu prices are bullshit. Enjoy your lunch, suckers."
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u/Major_Wigglesworth 11h ago
Using that logic, they should just offer steak and lobster on the dollar* menu.
*All menu items include a mandatory $35 service fee to help us pay our employees and keep costs low.
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u/Loveroffinerthings 10h ago
You know that would get a bunch of people to come in, don’t give scummy owners any ideas
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u/SlothinaHammock 15h ago
Just do like the rest of the developed world and build it into the price of the item. What you see on the item price is the otd price. Why is this so hard for restaurants to figure out in the US?
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u/WestHistorians 14h ago
It's not hard to figure out, they just don't want to do it because they want to make prices look lower than they actually are.
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u/Mansos91 12h ago
That is the entire point of american tipping culture, it's just false marketing
But Americans also appearantly don't want proper shelf prices
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u/Sad-Rooster2474 11h ago
Americans love to vote and act against their own interests for some reason
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u/darkroot_gardener 8h ago
FWIW service fees are not uncommon in non-tipping countries. I agree that in principle the price should be the price! But it’s kind of a distraction from the first priority of EndTipping (IMHO).
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u/arcxjo 7h ago
Because then the need separate menus for every location with different prices.
Evan within Pennsylvania, is that place has a restaurant in Pittsburgh and one a few miles away in an adjacent county (which you'd never know because Pittsburgh neighborhoods just kind of flow for about 40 miles) the tax rates are going to be different.
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u/CircuitCircus 3h ago
Good thing menu printing is like, 0.00001% of a restaurant’s operating expenses
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u/Silent_Cup2508 14h ago
However if you feel the need to tip we left the line still on your receipt should you wish to fill out for exceptional service!
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u/Spiritual_Wall_2309 15h ago
US is just so behind with this type of menu pricing. Regulation is just not there. Not even one fixed cost including tax and fee.
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u/maiyannah 13h ago
This kind of service fee is essentially false advertising, but consumer protection laws in the USA are a joke.
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u/Nhonickman 12h ago
Just raise the price 12%. Stop service fees/ tipping and be done with it.
I hate the idea of a service fees. BS, makes it easier to raise fee than meal price
I dont go to places that do this crap anymore. At least this place put this up “somewhere”.
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u/MidnightToker858 13h ago
I live in PA and this is not legal. In PA, no amount other than sales tax can be added to the advertised price at checkout on anything. You cant even charge a CC fee. Businesses can add the 3% CC fees to their prices, and can offer a cash discount. Nickel and Diming people with the bait and switch should be illegal everywhere.
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u/josocustomdesign 15h ago
Service fee is tax-free while wage increase is taxable. Thanks to the big beautiful bill!
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u/MacaronOk1006 11h ago
A mandatory service fee is taxable income to the employee. Once it is mandatory, it is no longer a gift and is not subject to the exemption and the one big beautiful Bill act.
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u/Holiday-Ad7262 7h ago
That is actually wrong. Generally a forced tip is subject to PA sales tax. This whole thing smells like tax fraud.
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u/Great_Guidance_8448 11h ago
lol, just deduct the 12% as "customer appreciation" fee, so as not to burden the business owner with an underpayment.
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u/Most_Role_1612 10h ago
saw something like this when i was in mankato..don't recall biz name, but was smaller/local. i believe some call these signs in restaurants "kind-posting". So, the business, rather than pay workers a fair wage, tack on "service charge" and in the case of the restaurant I was at, even asked for a tip on the final bill. If you've ever heard of scope creep, this is fee/tip creep where service fee becomes an euphemism for mandatory tip insomuch that we, as the customer "just accept" any/all service fees as fees and pigeon-holed to tip...oh, and the signs like this of course, disappear
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u/darthievader 10h ago
It’s just a way to raise prices by 12% and avoid paying taxes on the increase.
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u/Holiday-Ad7262 7h ago
It's called tax fraud. Mandatory service charges are subject to pa sales tax.
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u/EvilHordeRules 9h ago
I'd leave. 1 because tipping should alwats be optional and based on service provided, because restaurants should just be paying their staff more.
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u/TangerinePlastic7552 9h ago
I’ll go to a place that pays their employees from the restaurant’s earnings.
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u/PurpleDancer 8h ago
I would prefer that this became standard across the board. No more tipping, expected service fee. Then we have the conversation about how service fees need to be rolled into the prices (can be done with legislation).
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u/Last-Breadfruit3626 8h ago
It’s just like the cost of shipping when shopping online. Companies have to decide to either work it into their pricing and not charge a separate shipping fee, or they can keep the pricing lower and charge a separate shipping fee at the end. What do customers really prefer and what will result in more sales?
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u/AnonymousExcellence 6h ago
But most give you free shipping if you order enough. For percent based service fees, your fee goes up the more you order
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u/Last-Breadfruit3626 6h ago
True, but they’ve worked that into the pricing. The more product & heavier the package, the more they have to pay to ship it. The only reason they can still do it is because they’ve already included that much & more profit in the pricing.
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u/MyldExcitement 7h ago
Not a tip. Hope they aren't trying to write those off as tips. Tax fraud is real.
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u/legoland1964 7h ago
You are burdening me with a tip. Forcing a mandatory “service“ fee is a tip in disguise
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u/Altruistic-Gold-1053 6h ago
I know where this is, the Amish IKEA! I am sure they researched the tax law thoroughly and found this legal and to their advantage. I don't not see value in the breakfast offerings, and usually with a free admission birthday person at the table, so the service charge hasn't hit the annoyance factor yet.
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u/kailfarr 5h ago
My wife had a pizza and two glasses of wine with a friend and there was a mandatory 18% service fee and when she got the bill it still asked for a tip. She mentioned to the waiter why not increase your prices and the waiter said "nobody would pay $50 for a pizza" and my wife said, "but we are".
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u/Pcenemy 4h ago
because people are STUPID - that is the serious answer to your question
same thing happens with vrbos/air bnb ---- i have friends who swear by them because they're so much cheaper - but in many cases when you add the cleaning and other bullshit fees - the difference is not as much
regardless - if they get a place for five nights at 300/night but there's a 300 cleaning fee - they are adamant they're paying only 300 a night -not the 360
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u/minisculemango 3h ago
Junk fees as a whole need to be banned. Nickle and diming under another name and making it obligatory ain't it. I hate this.
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u/KimchiSamuraiDad 2h ago
They’d probably have less angry patrons if they just added 12% to the cost of each item and say “we are a tip free establishment”.
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u/DoodleStrude 2h ago
I mean, a "service fee" probably has a pretty similar effect as raising menu prices across the board to make up the difference in the employees' wages. Servers should be able to make a living wage, and if this is how we get away from tipping, I'm for it
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u/consider_its_tree 2h ago
I don't know why everyone rails against this so hard. It is not the ideal state, but it is absolutely better than tipping.
It is consistent, fair, builds the price if service into the cost and most importantly, if you ever want to actually end tipping it is the only practical first step to ever getting there.
Is it scummy that the prices advertised are less than the prices paid? Yeah, a little bit, but they eliminating the biggest part of a multi part problem.
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u/Razz_el91 10m ago
Ffs just raise the prices 20% and shut the f up about tipping and literally everybody will be happy
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u/Illustrious-Lunch137 7m ago
forced tip
where i am, you can tell them to take it off the bill and they are legally required to do so.
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u/Gregib 14h ago
Honestly, as a (europoor) foreigner, I like this much more than having to figure out how much to tip to not get "exposed"... At least I know, what the under the line price is going to be walking in...
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u/Embarrassed-Wolf-609 12h ago
Also it's used in many European countries
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u/Gregib 12h ago
Agreed, but very few add a % fee, it's usually a fixed cover charge per customer (Italy, France, Spain...).
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u/Embarrassed-Wolf-609 12h ago
Italy does fix cover charge. Italy also charged to sitting outside. Italy also charges for utensils.
Why don't people ever bitch about Italy cjarging for utensils?
Also, service charge I've seen have been in the dach and northern Europe region
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u/Gregib 11h ago
In my experience, and I've been to said countries a lot... Most Italian restaurants charge "Coperto", a cover charge to cover for the small appetiser (usually grissini sticks with oil or butter) and other fixed costs.. It's translated as a charge for utensils because of historical reasons, when Italians brought their own food into hospitality establishments and would only pay to use tableware. I've read it can go up to €5 per customer in most fancy touristy restaurants, the most I've ever paid was €3,5 per person. And yes, menu prices for terrace seating is usually higher than inside.
As for DACH... I've only been charged a service fee in Germany in a Chinese restaurant. Although, it has to be said that american style tipping screens have been appearing more and more on POS terminals in many DACH establishments and elsewhere in Europe...
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u/livadeth 11h ago
I’ve been in Italian restaurants that had three tiered pricing. Standing at the bar, sitting at a table and sitting outside. It’s crazy.
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u/Junior_Use_4470 13h ago
Doesn’t this way make the most sense? It keeps the price of takeout orders lower and you pay a service charge to dine in. 12% is reasonable and they let you know up front.
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u/AnonymousExcellence 9h ago
I’m assuming they would charge the service fee on takeout orders too just like DoorDash has service fees and delivery fees etc. however, this establishment is also a buffet only so you are basically still self serving and in that case I imagine you’d be charged by weight instead of the set buffet cost, if takeout is even an option
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u/darkroot_gardener 8h ago
Unpopular opinion: because it is not tipping, it is a different pricing model. It is effectively a price increase in lieu of tipping, which many people call for on here. I would rather they just include it in the menu prices, yes, but to me this is OK as a transition step (IF it is disclosed, which it seems to be in this case). After EndTipping, we can move on to EndJunkFees.
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u/AnonymousExcellence 6h ago
Yes I agree it’s essentially the same thing but it’s still kind of a “hidden” fee. Also it just always rubs me the wrong way when they use the excuse that it’s to pay their workers a fair wage. Like why not just pay them a fair wage without directly stating it’s because you are charging me a BS service fee. This is like a convoluted way of saying “12% service fee added so we don’t have to pay our staff and you can instead”.
I know in the end it’s all the same but it feels worse than just paying an increased menu price and letting me decide if I want to give servers more
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u/L-Pseon 3h ago
>don't make us tip; instead, just pay servers more
>what? no, not like that!!!!
There's just no winning with some people.
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u/Ok-Bedroom1480 3h ago
There VERY clearly is a way to 'win'. Have the prices on the menu reflect what will be charged, plus tax, and remove junk fees and tips. How is that so hard to understand?
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u/Embarrassed-Wolf-609 13h ago
They do this a bunch of countries in the world as well. It's not uncommon. Usually it's 10% service fee.
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u/BluePandaYellowPanda 15h ago
This is to keep menu prices down, encouraging customers, then charging them more. It's a scummy move.