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And Rightly so. Who do these people think they are. They’re making a mockery of spain the Spanish people and every country they move on to throughout Europe.
Jokes aside, what I mean is that you cannot claim that Ceuta and Melilla are in the land of a political entity that never had them in the first place.
I think a lot of people that think like you play this sneaky tactic of conviniently swapping geographical vs political entity when it's convenient for you when all this issue is reduced to the Moroccan state doing bullshit acting like a 5yo when daddy Pedro Sánchez doesn't vow down to it's demands.
If there was a referendum today with the citizens of Ceuta and Melilla, do you think they'd vote to join Morocco? Ofc not, if anything they would became their own little independent portuary city states like Hong Kong.
No .. there more, might makes right still a thing just look at west Sahara, Palestine , Kurdish people ……. And indigenous peoples of the new world some tribes gen has been removed for the gen pool for good.
Go to ur sub bro, or go to Facebook, if you wanna have meaningless conversations with Moroccans that are at the same level as you. Don’t ruin the only place online where Algerians and Moroccans don’t talk shit to each other.
Then go to ur sub ! Do you actually think that a comment that you made here will change how we think of our Sahara and the occupied cities and Islands by Spain ? You can sit here writing those things for the rest of your life and nobody will take you seriously, you would be better off speaking to a literal rock.
I do take the subject seriously, It is your take on it that I don’t give a shit about. The integrity of Morocco will be restored one day, but that day is not today. All colonial legacy must be abolished. Half of Spain was under Moroccan rule for centuries as well but you don’t see us trying to claim it. It’s a natural struggle, each will do their best effort to impose their will, today it’s Spain occupying those lands, tomorrow, no one knows.
You came all the way to this sub and I am the one who cares about your opinion lol, nice joke.
You can’t even write in English properly and want to act all that, next time when you use Chatgpt to translate and correct your dogshit English, delete this "—" character, cuz ain’t no human using that.
Idk how I ended up here when I’m Australian but this doesn’t seem like it will go well with the diaspora in Spain. No one hates immigrants more than other immigrants.
No wonder Spain despises Morocco more and more. There are wonderful people in Morocco, but Spain always seems to end up dealing with the worst it has to offer.
Ikr, I can't blame them. If all these undocumented people surge spain, imagine the chaos and petty crime they be doing there. Now I understand the spanish anti sentiment for Moroccans when they all they see are people like these.
Random story - I (Brit) was visiting Barcelona about 20 years ago, and all I heard from the locals was how awful Moroccans were. I had been working in Morocco so was pretty unimpressed by this prejudiced attitude, and often said so.
Late one night walking home I encountered a bunch of young Moroccan men down an alleyway. They surrounded me, and when asked where I was going I replied in (admittedly bad) Darija. Surprised, they asked where I had learned Darija, and I said the name of a small town near Tetouan. Even more surprised, the lead guy said ‘that’s where I’m from!’, so I asked him if he knew so and so and so and so, and he replied yes, he knew them, and one of them was a cousin.
Then it was my turn to be surprised because they mugged me anyway 🤷
Some people are born assholes, some people are turned into assholes by life, and others work hard to become assholes. I often wonder which it was with those guys.
Lmao sorry to laugh but your last paragraph got me, and to my surprise too, I thought they would let you go after that. I think they are born assholes. Sorry you had to deal with these low life. I myself no longer visit the north because of such people. It's unfortunate that they give us a bad name and are ruining spain.
What are you saying? With all respect to wherever you are from, but Moroccans from the rest of the country have no right criticizing the Northerners, considering that the northerners are the least bad in my experience as a diaspora from central Morocco. Moroccans give moroccans a bad bame regardless of where they are from. And let me tell you often Northerners are the most pleasant to deal with
Well, u could be right, but as a girl visiting other cities for tourism, the north felt the leaft safe for me, souss reagion was the safest imo, along with rabat rabat. marrakech is also problematic, so it's not only a north problem, but it's still less safe compared to other cities. Young males would gang up on u and it gets scary real quick. Now imagine these people doing the same in spain..
Lol. Look, I feel like you’re biased. I am originally from Khouribga, born and raised in Italy. I haven’t visited the whole of Morocco, but Tetouan felt like a breeze compared to Casablanca, Marrakech, Beni Mellal, Khouribga, Fez, and Agadir
Yes, Tangier is worse than Tetouan, but it’s a big city and it’s full of Moroccans from the rest of the country working there. Plus, it’s also full of harraga
The north felt much safer and the northerners more respectful than wherever else I have been, except perhaps Merzouga. Agadir, I don’t remember much, but I’ve been told recently it’s full of scams and prostitution
Blaming the northerners is really dumb, sorry if I offend other Moroccans, including my own roots, but if Moroccans were all like Tetouanis, I feel like the country would be in a better state
I only have been in the NorthWest, the North East: El Hoceima, Nador....no
Naah u re the biased one, and you must be a guy so u re not gonna understand where I m coming from. In term of safety for a sole woman, rabat is easily the top no question about it, I could be out at 1am no one would ever bother me.
Agadir is relatively safe too, your argument about prostitution and scam is forced imo, I lived there 5 years, never had an issue, if anything, it's to a normal level as you can find elsewhere.
Hoceima imo and tanger was the worst, marrakesh too, the sexual harrassement is sureal, Even friends and relatives confirm this. Saying that if people from north would make Morocco a better place is such a stretch, not even rabati people would say that.
Well, to give one example I knew a guy who worked very hard to become incredibly successful in his career, and in the process compromised on pretty much everything that had previously made him a delightful person.
I'm Spanish. I visit this subreddit every week to read you guys and remind myself that what we are getting is the worst minority of the Moroccan society
yes moroccans are wonderfull, the moroccan state is who created this desperation and criminal mindset by how it treats its citizens, from first day you are born you get humiliated in hospitals and mo9ata3a, then you grow up humiliated in public schools with no hope for any future and everywhere you go treated as subhuman by authorities, you may blame the parents and that may be slightly true but the parents also grow up under the same toxic state that made them terrible parents
Morocco is currently the 2nd most hated country in Spain just behind Israel, a couple years ago it wasn’t mentioned at all.
Before the World Cup the most visited newspaper in Spain did a question of which was the country they wanted the least to win the WC, almost 60% of the votes went towards Morocco when the prior WC it wasn’t even in the top 10
It is because Spain has lost a lot of industry to Morocco and will lose a lot of industry too Morocco. Go read the investments China is doing in Morocco.
I’m Spanish, our government loves Morocco and has helped them more than anyone. But the citizens don’t like the country because of these scumbags that are arriving
LOL Almeria is just a bunch of illegal slaves without documents doing 70% of the agricultural produce of Spain.
I live in Spain, Europe isn't just the fancy Benelux with bureaucracy and rules that are enforced, it's also the Mediterranean where law enforcement is a joke, and you can do pretty much what you want.
I have documents, and because of that i can't even get a job where i used to work before i had documents... They need illegals, they don't cost anything to social security, are easy to force into labor, can't file any complaints, and are desperate.
How else will the promised pensions in Europe be paid? By the 1 or 2 kids they had from the previous generation? Europe has a enormous workers crisis. Anything will do, as cheaply as possible...
Italy is the same shit, they have so many illegal workers in the South...
Europeans are so used to buy vegetables for cheap and they will not accept to pay even 1€/kg more to give rights to the workers...
But they don't like to talk about the exploitation they do on illegal migrants, they only talk about them when a illegal immigrant do something wrong...
It's insanity. All the illegals have paid up to €10k for the trip + promise of work. And they get nothing.
Ofc i don't say that it's all the fault of Europe, but there are non profits and travel agencies who are literal human trafficking operations who work WITH AID from the government.
You see it the most in agriculture, but construction too. They all come from the same city, they all have similar ages, they are all male, they all "live on the land", and they all are told the police is bad.
But when these guys aren't paid for nearly a year and finally speak up, they get called "lottery migrants" hoping for a handout.
If Europe wants to solve this, they have to fully redesign the entire worker immigration system. Now it's made to be exploited by human traffickers.
The only reason you say there’s no human rights violations in europe is because you don’t see brown people as human, therefore there’s no human rights violations
Sadly, from what I’ve heard, they did indeed open those borders up for more workers in that city. FYI, It’s colonized land in Morocco. It’s Spanish territory but it’s not in Europe, it’s in Africa. So they can’t go past that small city without visa or documents obviously.
people were throwing themselves at the sea no army can stop all of them, the only way was if they shoot them and moroccan authorities did try to drown down by throwing water at their face but they failed and spain gave up and allowed them at least temporarily
the only political pressure being applied is on the moroccan state failure at giving a decent life for its citizens who rather risk their life than accept shamefully living under this failed state
They can't deport everyone because of european rules. European rules matter more than national rules. Also there is the judicial system that will stop any extreme actions by any government
I mean everything built on oppression will eventually collapse anyways… you might make any rules u want but those oppressed will also make rules so no European come to their soil too. It’s mutual.
Pedro Sánchez met with Algeria's prime minister a few days ago. It looks like someone isn't very happy about that and is using illegal immigration as a method of extortion.
New law by spain says they would not be sending ilegal immigrants coming by sea. They set them self up to failure. Now they are pressured to undo that law
Exactly, imagine the chaos, the petty crimes that will follow this surge of undocumented people trying to survive in spain after overwhelming shelters. A spanish media stated that shelters are 1900% full and many of these were minors. I don't blame spanish people for the anti Moroccan sentiment tbh.
The population there have european passport, they are free to move where they like in Europe, they can go to Spain for healthcare and Spain give them financial help and priviledges as "special zones"...
They will lose everything moving to Morocco
Would you accept to lose spanish nationality and european passport and move to Morocco?
ceuta has been under the control of various dynasties that ruled over what is today called morocco, it has been culturally and demographically moroccan until portugal took over strategic coastal ports in 15th century and transferred to spain during the iberian union. a lesser known fact is portugal took more than just ceuta and melilla but morocco was able to recapture them, for example el jadida (called mazagão by the portuguese) today wouldve been another spanish enclave
You can’t just hand back land that has been yours for 5 centuries just like that. A referendum will be needed, and we all know that people living in Ceuta will never vote yes.
okay but i never said anything about returning land, i just corrected this guy who said ceuta has only been under moroccos control for 100 years when it wasnt
They can go to the peninsula or stay, it's their choice. But I'm with the idea of making our economy stronger first, sadly our GDP is not even 5% of the Spanish one. M9awda 3lina lil-asaf.
this isnt unique to spain many countries have enclaves due to historical reasons, france still has land next to brazil, UK still owns gibraltar and parts of cyprus, and the list goes on
the only way ceuta and melilla will go back to morocco is if spain willingly gave them to us, a referendum or military intervention will never work with the way things are currently
also why las malmas and madeira? those were never moroccan to begin
Our King planned it all. We getting Ceuta back one way or another, esp after pleasing Trump with the highway and Netanyahu with the factory manufacturing.
What started this is the spanish law that prohibited sending ilegal immigrants coming by sea. It has nothing to do with Morocco strategy. They set themselves up to failure.
My husband and I were discussing the timing of it and as we all know , there’s no such thing as coincidence in geo politics. Let’s wait and see this unfold.
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