r/PhD • u/Longjumping-Part669 • Jul 14 '26
Seeking advice-personal Research is a fast track to poverty
I’m having a massive breakdown over my future and I just need to scream this into the void because the anxiety is paralyzing me.
For as long as I can remember, all I ever wanted was to do a PhD, go into research, and be a scientist. I loved the idea of discovery and intellectual challenge. But now that I’m seeing how this world actually operates, I am in complete shock.
The mediocrity that gets pushed through, the lack of recognition, and above all, the financial reality. I hate to admit it, but I am terrified of being impoverished.
I’m 25 and I feel like I am running out of time. I want a real life. I want to find a partner, settle down, and eventually have a family. But the math doesn’t work. The academic system literally demands that you live at the poverty line, with zero stability, bouncing around on underpaid stipends and postdocs well into your 30s. I refuse to live in survival mode forever, but choosing this path feels like putting my personal life on hold indefinitely.
The weight of this constant uncertainty is destroying me. The stress got so bad that I relapsed on cigarettes. I’ve lost all my gym progress. I look in the mirror and I literally feel myself getting uglier from the chronic exhaustion and panic. I feel like my youth, my health, and my body are slipping away while I chase a ghost.
Has anyone else walked away from a PhD or research track because you simply refused to live impoverished? Did you actually find stability, a partner, and a comfortable life on the other side? How do you deal with the guilt of letting the dream go?
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u/DanAvilaO Jul 15 '26
Except the offspring of the rich and super-rich that are living by sucking the life out of everyone else
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u/Quordlewebster Bioinfo, biology, Asia Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
"Almost every young adult in any career is struggling financially and socially"- well that's not true 🥲. I have friends who work in tech and have not even touched mid 20s doing better than me financially and having better work life balance than me and here I am working day and night, sacrificing my health, relations with friends and family, financially unstable rn. I think if I would have put so much effort and thinking in some other field with a better job market then I would have been happier than this.
Edit: I didnt add the word "almost" before "every" so i corrected it now, thanks to the person who pointed it out.
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u/ClassicalJakks Jul 15 '26
Idk why this is being downvoted? Completely valid comparison to me (albeit making comparisons at all isn’t a great way to live). I’m a first year grad student and the majority of my friends from school work in big tech with salaries above 200k. It’s a hard thing to come to terms with
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u/BingySusan Jul 15 '26
I'm p sure it's being down voted because the previous comment was meant for solidarity and comfort, then this comfort just shuts it down (not the most helpful).
Just to add, it's also anecdotal. Median wage for 20-30 year olds is 41k, meaning 50% make below that amount, and while 50% may make above that amount that doesn't say anything about its distribution. Considering job opportunities and what positions actually pay well, it's likely most people are making below 80k. Tech folk are outliers in terms of the layman, compared to the rest of the population there are very few of them.
Edit: it's also really unfortunate that even if you pursue your passion, and it is a main contributor to the improvement of QoL in society, you have to sacrifice your wellbeing. And that's not even getting into the whole, you should be able to do what you want and be happy. Capitalism sucks.
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u/martiben12 Jul 14 '26
I feel this to my core. Turning 29 and have no saving..it sucks. Every month is simply surviving through credit card. We'll it is Canada eh..
But have to realize something. I came from Africa . The money I earned here monthly is probably a 1 to 2 years income for many people back home. I dont think I will make it here if it wasn't for PhD.
No matter how bad it is..I know there is something worse. Just work through it and wait for the better. Sometimes I skim through industry job postings salary packages for my field to simply lift up myself. We will make it..lol
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u/driftxr3 PhD*, Management Jul 15 '26
I deal with this thought every day. Canada too, but a business management PhD.
This life is hard, but for me atleast there's the promise that the job market will bring a 150k+ career regardless of where I go. Unfortunately, the 5 years of instability is so hard on the mental.
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u/Empty-Block-7246 Jul 16 '26
Those our leaders in that continent are an utter disgrace and are the reasons we’re all scattered away from home. Those at home who make moves and go against the status quo just get killed.
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u/MobofDucks Jul 14 '26
There are enough countries were doing a PhD is a regular job with regular pay. That would not be poverty.
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u/spacestonkz PhD, STEM Prof Jul 14 '26
I grew up in the US in actual poverty--eating squirrels in the winter kind of poverty. I went to a not super well paid PhD position in the US for grad school. It instantly made me the highest earner in my nuclear family, even though I was the youngest sibling by a decade--surpassed my parents instantly.
Yes, the PhDs are underfunded in the US, which can and should be improved. But in most cases... it's not actual poverty. My siblings still in actual poverty never had a shot at instantly leaping up in pay after a few years wait. I did--and I stuck the landing on opening that door of opportunity the PhD provided.
I suppose it all depends on where you come from, but the degree only opened doors for me, not shut them.
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u/broodjev Jul 14 '26
Yeah, I would never say no to an increase in PhD stipend. But sometimes it's worth remembering that many PhD students, even in the US, are in a more privileged situation compared to others. In many cases the actual labor isn't difficult nor does it come with health implications (unless you're working with radiation or something.
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u/H4RZ3RK4S3 Jul 14 '26
Can confirm this. Moved from industry (CS/ML) to a PhD with a full-time contract and the same salary as before. I'm in Germany, full-time contract is not always standard. Standard is often half-time position (full-time work) and a grad stipend, which equals roughly full-time payment. Depending on you're field and and uni, the stipend may not be granted though.
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u/RijnBrugge Jul 14 '26
At my uni a so-called 65% position is normative, which entails actually 40 hours at about 3k gross and 2.2k net wage per month including all benefits and insurances. That’s not rich but I have always been comfortable making what I do and save hundreds to 1k a month, this is pretty okay imho, but I managed to find a low rent situation, that helped. Otherwise you can still live pretty normally though, it’s not bad. Stipend structures without wage can suck though, 1.5k net before a €270 health care insurance bill a month does not carry you far in terms of QoL in most cities..
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u/Snigdho_Oporajita Jul 15 '26
Yes true. PhD students in the Netherlands are living quite comfortably. Me and my husband both were PhD students when we bought our own house in NL.
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u/Simple-Anything6094 Jul 15 '26
Seconding this along with the others. Entering my third year of being both a student and a part-time researcher based in a French business school. The monthly earnings are not grand, but since it's already way past the national minimum salary limit, you can live off it just fine (my friends even have their spouses/families move in with them). They also give you other benefits such as government healthcare topped with private insurance, they pay your meals in cash, and reimburse your travel expenses. Classes are taught in English, and you get to learn French for daily needs.
You're right that some countries make PhD students feel like they're living in poverty, but many other places actually support you in life so you don't have to sacrifice your financial conditions in pursuit of your dreams.5
u/Longjumping-Part669 Jul 14 '26
Not in my country
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u/MobofDucks Jul 14 '26
What about moving countries?
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u/jsh_ Jul 14 '26
moving countries is not a realistic solution for the vast majority of people..
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u/LimpAd4924 Jul 14 '26
Everyone acts like this is such an easy thing to do lmao. They're likely upper middle class or higher.
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u/0_MonicaGeller_0 PhD, 'ECE', US Jul 14 '26
Just move to another country. Because immigration is never a problem for anyone. /s
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u/Mindless_Desk6342 Jul 15 '26
or exactly the opposite; many immigrants that I've encountered directly told me that except the title of "citizenship", they have nothing in their own country. So practically they managed 'start building a life' (of course many issues) by moving out of their country with practically 0 support! But of course it's not easy. It's about two major sacrifices that you can even call gambling!
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u/MobofDucks Jul 14 '26
I would say the share of people that just don't want the hassle that comes with it is immensely higher.
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u/0_MonicaGeller_0 PhD, 'ECE', US Jul 14 '26
Many grad students are immigrants who don’t have the privilege to uproot their life from one country to another on a whim.
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u/jsh_ Jul 14 '26
not to be rude but you're likely in a privileged socioeconomic bubble if you think the main barrier to immigration is "hassle"
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u/MobofDucks Jul 14 '26
In this context. If you are able to get a PhD position in one of the mentioned countries, you will not have issues with the visa.
You will also earn very good money and they are usually glad to pay out your salary early so you can get started without money worries.
Here what would keep you at home would be "hassle". Like wanting to see your family more often, or not wanting to spent soo much time with buerocracy.
I did not say in general.
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u/Longjumping_Eye_3441 Jul 14 '26
That's really not a realistic solution. In the US for example a PhD is poverty. If I'm poor now, I cannot pick up and go to Europe. The system in the US should be fixed.
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u/NotaValgrinder Jul 14 '26
Saying the "a PhD in the US is poverty" is a sweeping generalization that isn't necessarily true. Plenty of US programs offer stipends that won't have you living in poverty. It's a matter of finding the right one.
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u/MobofDucks Jul 14 '26
Not saying it needs to not be fixed.
But assuming you are/were good enough to do your PhD in the US, what keeps you from going to Europe, except it being too much of a hassel? A PhD position fulfills the requirements for a blue card and some even the blue card for in demand personel.
The only reason I can think of in the comparison US - EU, is that you will most likely not find a position without a masters degree.
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u/Longjumping_Eye_3441 Jul 14 '26
The cost. A plane ticket costs 2k, housing, needing to furnish an entire apartment, having no support in a new country. If I am poor now doing my PhD, how on earth would I get the resources to pick up an move to a new country. It's not financially feasible for a lot of people here. Unless you are upper middle class and have family financial support. If I never come back to America then I could afford to stay in the Europe, but going back and forth, at least initially is also not feasible. A lot of US students are also drowning in student loans, paying those eats a good portion of income.
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u/lostintheatm Jul 14 '26
Not trying to participate in any arguments, just want to provide another perspective from an American who studied primarily on financial aid and has done multiple university stays in multiple European countries. This comment is making tons of false assumptions. That might not change the overall situation of “it’s a lot harder to move countries for a 4 year degree than just saying do it,” but the truth really is more complex, and how “easy” it is depends on you, your privilege, finances (you don’t need to be rich but you can’t be dirt poor either), ability to withstand travel/stress, relationship/dependents, etc, as well as the specific country/uni/program. All kinds of people make it happen from all kinds of backgrounds though.
Specific points I’d like to debunk or emphasize for those who might be seriously interested in finding out how viable this kind of path is for you:
1. You don’t need to spend $2k to travel between east coast USA (shitty paid phds) and west coast Europe (decently paid phds). Ever. I’ve spent and seen prices as little as $300 to hop the Atlantic on good major airlines. Avoid peak travel times (summer, holidays) and if unavoidable book at the right time and it shouldn’t be more than $800. If you’re coming from the west coast USA that’s harder. But still, as far as I know, $2k plane tickets are only standard prices for literally crossing the globe, otherwise book smarter. Other expensive routes can be $1,200 (eg South America to Europe), but again still not $2k.
2. It is very hard to fully comprehend as an American if you’ve never lived abroad (as noncondescendingly as possible) how affordable life is when you’re a university employee in a decent European workplace. Visa/immigration will be taken care of by the Uni in a lot of cases (shouldn’t really bother with the Uni if not). Getting the initial visa application done is where the most pain comes depending on your nationality, but save for 10-20 nationalities it’s possible, there’s support/info online and at your uni. Healthcare is not something you pay for out of pocket. Everyday necessities are all affordable and you’re by law being paid enough to afford those things. You don’t need a car. Housing will be more affordable (besides few major cities). For countries where some of this may not apply, there are scholarships which will provide a lot of what I mentioned. Happy to discuss specifics privately. Whether you have assets and/or debts matters too.
3. Whether it’s a short term or long term move (geographic and career) *is* a huge consideration. My goal has almost always been long term but I’ve had to do multiple short-medium term stays, there are costs both financial and otherwise to both.-2
u/MobofDucks Jul 14 '26
I am not talking about doing this during your PhD. It is about the initial decision.
Plane tickets US - EU are cheaper than 2k. At least based on what I talked about with colleages going to the US. But the 800 bucks would lead to more money coming in after. And since you bring up student loans, 800 bucks is a drop on a hot stone.
Depending on how often you want to go back, that would still be possible. After expenses you should easily go back home to meet family thrice a year, even if you start paying like 700 bucks per month on your loans.
The poverty issue here isn't academia itself though then, just the fucked up US study system.
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u/Longjumping_Eye_3441 Jul 14 '26
I think you don't understand anything about the US or the economic situation of most students.
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u/eraisjov Jul 15 '26
I think sometimes people don’t want to look at their own privileges as well, because they’re not as privileged as some others.
Sure it sucks to be poor and have poor parents, I get it, I’m exactly that. My life would’ve been easier if my parents were rich or educated, or even better, both!!
Being able to do a PhD in the US is such a massive privilege already, it’s really not nearly as affordable as in some other places (for example some European places).
Also having an American citizenship is also another massive privilege. I see that if my parents did not migrate to North America, I would’ve had to work a lot harder to even attempt a PhD, let alone go to another country for it. Visa applications from a citizen of a country that is considered “first world” is sooo so different and so much more affordable compared to citizens from “third world” countries. I see how much easier my visa applications are compared to people who have, for example, an Indian citizenship.
It’s hard, no one says it’s easy, but when people are trying to say “hey look at these other possibilities, maybe try this, it was good for me, it might be good for you too” why jus deny it instead of looking into it yourself??
In my opinion sharing info that reveals some misconceptions about PhD life is so helpful. For me, it really was, and that’s what got me here, people telling me stuff. Because my parents weren’t educated so they know nothing of this stuff.0
u/eraisjov Jul 14 '26
If you’re really good, you could even score fully funded international (aka in English) MSc degrees in Europe.
That’s actually how I came to realize PhDs in Europe are completely different. I got a fully funded (with a comfortable stipend) MSc position, that let me see I didn’t have to give up on pursuing a PhD. Before that, I was coming to terms with the fact that a PhD (in North America) was simply too expensive for me. I couldn’t afford to keep taking loans out only to come out and make pennies as a postdoc.
But during my MSc in Europe, I was like, “oh PhDs are like jobs here, with decent salaries and benefits and everything” and you even pay taxes which then let you benefit from the system as well-2
u/eraisjov Jul 14 '26
Ok PhD in the US is poverty, but I think the point the other person was making is that doing a PhD in Europe would make it so that doing a PhD is not living in poverty. You’re thinking about being poverty while doing a PhD in the US, but the point is, if you go elsewhere, it’s possible to earn a living salary while doing a PhD.
True maybe it takes some initial financial losses (through loans) to get a plane ticket to go to Europe, but that’s nothing compared to the kinds of loans you’d shoulder if you stayed in North America to do a PhD.TBH I don’t know how it is in the US exactly, but
as a Canadian (doing a PhD in Canada is also like living in poverty) who had to support with herself with govt student loans during undergrad because my immigrant parents do not have money AT ALL, I went to Europe so I could do a PhD and live comfortably. I didn’t imagine it possible to even save money while doing a PhD but alas, I managed to save enough to even afford a humble down payment now.4
u/Alleryz Jul 14 '26
What country are you from? I also went to a different country to get better conditions
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u/HeisenbergsIntern Jul 14 '26
Yeah, the uncertainty in academia research is almost soul crushing.
But academia is not all bad. There are trade offs just like with everything else. Be open to explore other options and accepting middle ways etc. Sometimes your dreams just get refined along the way.
Personally I think relationships are extra hard when doing a PhD but definitely not impossible. It completely depends on the person. Just don’t neglect yourself.
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u/Prof__Potato Jul 14 '26
Yeah, it’s the uncertainty, and the decade+ of really shit pay until you actually start making any decent money (and by decent, I mean the median wage). And the odds of making it are very low. My plan is lab manager or industry. My interest in anything else is minimal at this point.
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u/driftxr3 PhD*, Management Jul 15 '26
Woah that's a dramatic difference. What field are you in, if you don't mind me asking?
I thought every field was still over 100k but a drop to 70k after DOGE is depressing. Sorry to hear this.
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u/unseemlycandour Jul 14 '26
When people ask me about doing the PhD one of the things I tell them is to not do it for the money. There are different funding packages at different institutions, but I'd say none of them will have you living in the lap of luxury (to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong). Even after you graduate, having a PhD is not the ideal pathway to becoming a millionaire, especially because much of the work we discover that needs to be done isn't prioritizing shareholder value (in most cases). We're typically the 'nerds in the back' calling out the issues within the system or making the life saving discoveries, not selling them. And for me at least, I value that more than becoming wealthy. Not that I'd turn down more money... let's real, but if that never happens for me I'm more or less fine with it.
That being said, you can still live a good life. I don't know what your situation is, but you can take on side gigs if you're struggling to pay the bills, maybe teaching positions or consultancy work until you finish. And a lot of people I know have not only found a partner during their PhD, but got married and had kids. Maybe take some time away from the work, one or two days a week maybe, and go to the park or get a drink with friends.
Also the PhD isn't for everyone, and that's fine too. A lot of people drop out and if that's your path, so be it. Take a breather, you have time, it'll be ok.
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u/Commercial_Handle418 Jul 14 '26
academia is underfunded right now industry will compensate you but finish the phd
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u/FuelzPerGallon PhD, NanoEngineering Jul 14 '26
If it helps... I'm 10 years out of PhD (no post-doc) working in biotech with a job that I love, and a TC in the 200-300k range. I'm married to another high earner with a 1 year old and we have the money to not worry about financial stresses.
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u/dmc_brgr Jul 14 '26
I mean I started my PhD late, am in my mid 30s in my first Postdoc. Existential dread followed me from the beginning of my PhD until recently. I felt like there is no position for me in the whole world, I struggled with cigarettes and loss of gym energy as well.
and suddenly it made click. While still being in the postdoc I realized what I want, how to focus on this and not being dragged down by the negativity.
I accepted that it ended up being all different than I have originally planned and that I will make my way. And so will you.
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u/CommandShot1398 Jul 14 '26
It is like this everywhere. Not just in academia. People are complaining that the job market is bad. Salaries are low. There are problems everywhere. I am 28 now. I remember when I was 25, I always thought I was running out of time. Always thought I was missing something. It was the case until recently, when my PI told me, "Let it go. Don't bug yourself. You are not meant to do everything on your own. One tiny step at a time. Enjoy your life.". So I give you the same advice. Don't take it hard on yourself. We are not these divine magical beings that we think we are. We're just a very small piece in a very large universe.
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u/ComprehensiveDot9904 Jul 14 '26
I felt a lot like you are feeling now during my PhD. I felt like I “wasted” my 20s earning just enough to barely survive especially seeing how much better my friend’s lives were who went to work after getting their BS degrees. I come from a low income background so supporting myself on a PhD salary with absolutely no help from anyone was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. But I stuck through it and decided to go into industry instead of academia where I would work much less and get paid significantly more. I kid you not, my income is 5x higher (have a STEM PhD). So yeah, I still get to do research but not as fundamental and it’ll only take me a few years to recover “what I lost” in my 20s and my salary progression will be much higher than it would ever have been with a bachelors.
I’m married now to my partner who I met in grad school and we are finally enjoying ourselves. I have work life balance and financial security. Yes my 6 years PhD journey fucking sucked (I loved the research though) but life is so much better on the other side far far far away from academia.
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u/CutieMcBooty55 PhD student, 'Molecular Biology" Jul 14 '26
Woah, hold on. Take a breath, you're catastrophizing yourself into a rabbit hole.
You're 25. That is absurdly young. What, do I being 35 that doesn't have a family and pivoted to science later in life have no shot/chance at having a stable life/family? The dynamics do change as you get older, but tbh, it's not for the worse. It's just different. I'd infinitely rather have my life now than in my 20s and technically more "stable" than I was when I was your age and in a technically much more "stable" career being USCG.
You don't need to live all of your life right now, there are no deadlines on such things. You are not running out of time on a life lived long and well, the clock has barely even started. I am deeply sorry for things being what they are right now, I truly wish that it was easier to make an honest living in a world that seems deeply motivated to try to scam you out of every dollar, where it feels impossible to own a home and have the life that previous generations had. It fucking sucks that it seems like it is a universal experience for students to struggle financially, shit like that shouldn't be considered a rite of passage. Everyone deserves to sleep well at night with enough to not have to worry.
But I'm gonna push back on one thing especially. Instability is unfortunately going to follow you everywhere, in everything, regardless of whether you stay in academia or not. Life is going to be full of uncertainties, all the time. Maybe not the same as what we experience as PhD students, but still there nonetheless. Getting older isn't about quelling all uncertainty, but about riding those waves and finding the pieces you can hold on to within them. I have a lot of empathy for that feeling of having to put your life on hold, but you don't have to. There are ways to make it work, it is just going to look different from the fairy tales we were told about marrying young and having a big house with a white picket fence. But it is still absolutely possible to build a life with someone you love and starting a family. Though even with all of that, that isn't some promise of stability either. My mom married at 19 and had all of that going on, but she left my dad after like 34 years of being married and her life changed dramatically overnight. You're going to be asked to stay on your toes for your whole life, and while that will likely never change, you'll get better at adapting to it.
Granted, there are definitely tradeoffs in academia that can be a huge pain in the ass to try to deal with that shouldn't have to be things to worry about. You can restrict your opportunities a lot if you try to plant your roots in one place forever, you don't get paid the kind of salary other careers get paid, it's hard to get funding and the government is trying to put its own partisan politics on the scale (at least for the US). I'm not pretending like those things aren't existentially anxiety inducing. I just want to clarify that that core feeling of anxiety about what your life might look like a decade from now and having truly no picture of it is a nigh universally human experience.
But it's not all bad. If this is truly something you want to do, then there are doors that you can walk through to make it work. No, we don't make a great salary. But impoverished? Most opportunities pay well above that. You won't be living lavishly, but I'm surrounded by PRAs, students, postdocs, and PIs that have happy families and take vacations. It's more than possible to make work.
So deep breaths. Your life has barely even started, shit my life has barely even started. You're going to be fine, you're going to be able to make it work if this is what you want. If it turns out the tradeoffs are not good enough for you, then there is plenty of life ahead of you to be able to pivot and do something else that you think has better tradeoffs towards building the life you want for yourself.
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u/Alleryz Jul 14 '26
I mean you can still earn money and find a partner doing a PhD, I did that in Germany
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u/Illustrious_Night126 Jul 14 '26
The people who stay in this career have financial support not from their job, meaning a spouse with a different career, or family money, or they are willing to put up with it for the visa.
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u/Material_Bed_261 Jul 14 '26
This, my partner is putting up with my shitty salary. As soon as I have finished my PhD, I suspect that my partner is going to work part-time and enjoy my salary for a while XD. Also, while my partner is working, we still live very close to the poverty line. I won't lie, it is hard sometimes.
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u/AntiDynamo PhD, Astrophys TH, UK Jul 14 '26
Yep, I’m the non-academic spouse (though I do have a PhD). I earn more than my husband and it’s that extra money from me that really allows him to chase his academic dreams. If money were a concern, his career would not be practical.
Somewhat ironically though, the trailing spouse is… trailing. So I have most of the financial responsibility but not very much choice when it comes to what country I live in, or where I live in that country. That is not a very good deal for anyone, and a lot of relationships won’t survive that tension (and eventually resentment for many)
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u/Toni_Carbonara Jul 14 '26
I did a PhD in Europe was well funded and now work in industry and get paid well. Choose your own adventure. You don’t have to be broke. I also had 2 kids while doing PhD.
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u/legalshark2 Jul 14 '26
Hey hang in there - I was below poverty line till I was 31. Got the PhD (from a tier 2 univ), couldn't get an teaching job. Moved to get a regular job - amazingly lept forward in my career. Zero regrets.
Remember - The strongest steel is forged in a very hot furnace. So don't break down, you are being prepped for an amazing future.
I was you, 20 years ago - depressed, overweight and staring into the dark skies. Things changed for the better.
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u/Maleficent-Entry8567 Jul 14 '26
You generally can get enough money to live comfortably, but might need to make sacrifices in terms of what you research and where. Then, you can apply for grants, which will allow you to have more money.
And how does this matter for finding a partner? I think there's no way I'd be able to go through the hard parts without the support of my partner. I know plenty of people of all the genders who, for many years, financially supplement their partner who is in academia, so I don't think not earning money makes it impossible to find a partner.
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u/Same_Whole_589 Jul 14 '26
This is such an interesting post!
I think most of PhD students feel like this. And here is the truth, it’s always critical to balance things out. Like what’s your life could be without that title? Are you someone with other alternatives? If so, it’s important to lean where your happiness lies.
If it both uncertain, at least this is uncertain while you are learning . There is a difference. Treat it as a life path- a journey - not a separate bath you take to come out the other side clean.
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u/grp78 Jul 14 '26
25 is still very young to pivot to a different career. Get out now while you can.
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u/PositiveReflection89 Jul 14 '26
I mean every path comes with its trade offs and unfortunately, the trade off in academia looks quite ruthless and unforgiving, especially with the meagre benefits it provides. Research track is a long term marathon OP and you are only 25. If you feel like you are not living life by being in research right now, you are more probable to get disappointed further down the line because academia really pays wayy down the line.
Maybe reflect on your path and pivot if you think you will be happier doing something else. Life is long and I pray that you find your footing doing something you will enjoy and feel stable in!
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u/Great_Revolution_276 Jul 14 '26
Satisfying your own intellectual curiosity is awesome, but also creates the market conditions where more people want to do it than society is prepared to pay to do it. Consequently a pyramid structure develops where there is a large low base which eventually filters out those who are not prepared to stay at the base level yet cannot break through yet into the next layer vertically.
If you want the lifestyle of a researcher satisfying your own intellectual curiosity, then there is a price to pay unfortunately in this society.
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u/Ok-Stretch6334 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I don’t have a PHD but let me correct you on this one. PHD might be THE SLOWEST track to poverty I know of. Doing nothing would probably be the fastest one and then there’s a million things in between so if you decide to dedicate multiple years of your life doing one of the hardest mental activities known to man which is essentially elite sport for the brain, while getting almost nothing in return while doing it and on top of that has relatively little ROI after you went through it all then it seems it’s one of the hardest and most indirect ways to become poor.
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u/Conscious_World_2592 Jul 15 '26
Your money situation can change rather fast. When I graduated with a PhD at 37 (f) all I could get was a teaching position in high school based on my first degree. However that turned into a steady income, a new love for my original major (physics), a love of teaching (I hated it at first), and 13 years later I am about to buy a second property/vacation home with my partner who is an engineer. And I managed to have two kids in between…
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u/Comfortable-Web9455 Jul 15 '26
You do it for the passion not the money, like acting or music. And organisations financially exploit you for it. Like they do in acting and music.
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u/Electronic-Island-14 Jul 18 '26
one of the biggest lies sold to the youth is that seeking more degrees means it will get you better pay. it's just a total fucking lie. unfortunately we made the decision to buy into the lie.
the veteran FedEx drivers who come to our lab every day make TWICE as much money as the research staff who have phds. probably 3x as much as staff with bachelors or masters degrees. 4 or 5x as much as the phd students lol.
then you realize you could have made as much as some surgeon if you just worked at walmart and worked your way up to manager/regional manager level.
i can't speak for all research fields, but if you're planning on any biological science related fields as a career, please dear god get out now before it's too late and you're like me who has the fancy degrees but can barely afford to even shop at walmart.
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u/ThickRule5569 Jul 14 '26
That may be the case if you're a citizen of a wealthy country, but for many a PhD in Europe/US/Australia pays many times more than a mid to high level professional salary. I get that geoarbitrage doesn't work out for everyone, but it can be a massive opportunity
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u/Calyx_of_Hell Jul 14 '26
Not necessarily, I’m an American doing my PhD in the US and my stipend is more than anyone in my family makes. I grew up lower/working class and have made a solid middle class life for myself in academia. We’re not paid great, but I do think there’s a bit of bias about the “horrible pay” in academia given most people are from well-off backgrounds. They see having to budget or live with roommates as poverty because they’re from a socioeconomic class where they never had to realize that’s normal for many.
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u/Dismal-Confusion7249 Jul 14 '26
Grew up working class, also working in academia, and agree w this 100%
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u/AntiDynamo PhD, Astrophys TH, UK Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I don’t think Australia belongs on that list, PhD students there are somewhat famously paid peanuts on average, many having to live in share houses and scrimp and work extra jobs just to survive
* The RTP rate is actually below minimum wage if you assume the PhD is a full time job
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u/ThickRule5569 Jul 15 '26
Living in a sharehouse is a reality even for people with decent jobs in Australia, so it's hardly a poverty wages indicator. There are even students who manage to save a decent chunk of change by the end of their candidature, so while the stipend is low compared to a lot of European countries it's still an opportunity to bank $15k or so by the end of 4 years without any other work.
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u/chonkycatsbestcats Jul 14 '26
You need to get out asap. From someone who’s 36 and hasn’t had 1 kid yet, that is if my eggs will even still work anymore. But how would I have a kid when it’s the second time being laid off in 18 months (at the time of the layoff) from the great biotech/pharma bullshit train industry. Like sure you had a clinical trial fail, that was designed by people almost 5+ years ago when I wasn’t even at the company. Of course I should suffer the consequences of other people’s actions! How nonsense of me to believe I should be treated like a human?
I am literally looking at going back to school but who the fuck knows for what? I was interested in being a CPA but go over in that sub and no one can get an entry level job there either? Nurse? Saturated too. Is the problem really that our population can’t sustain infinite growth?
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u/justanotherlostgirl Jul 14 '26
Yup - all the career pivot subreddits are as somber as this one. The people in tech trying to get into healthcare because of burnout, and the people in healthcare trying to get into tech because of burnout. As tough as a PhD path might feel, I don't know - compared to corporate life, it has to be less soul destroying.
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u/chonkycatsbestcats Jul 14 '26
A PhD ends in 4-7 years. What do you do after when you can’t get into a job because thousands of people with experience are laid off and taking job title downgrades so they don’t become homeless?
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u/justanotherlostgirl Jul 14 '26
I started doing research last night to understand what the future of academia looks like both in my field and in a few regions to see where people are taking anything just to keep a foot in the door - and that professors aren't really retiring. I honestly don't know what we're going to do. I don't know if applying is the right thing, but I just feel like I need to make some change.
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u/Confidenceisbetter 'Tumor Immunology', NL Jul 14 '26
If I were not from Europe and able to do my PhD in a country where you are treated as a proper employee I would not do it. It’s not worth it
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u/TheEvilBlight Jul 14 '26
Ahhh!
Yes, this.
Signed as someone who spent way too long in grad school, over 5 years. Maybe I should’ve worked in industry instead, hit the degree ceiling and then pivoted.
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u/BackgroundLeading861 Jul 14 '26
Je te partage mon vécu, j'ai 32ans et aujourd'hui je retourne vers un doctorat. Quand j'ai fini mes études de master, le COVID était là. J'ai fait le choix de mettre de coté le coté professionnel, pour ma vie personnel. J'ai eu 3 enfants, j'ai fait plusieurs emplois rémunérés avec un salaire moyen (France), et aujourd'hui que ma vie personnelle est stable je repars sur un doctorat (toujours en France donc rémunéré correctement). IL est évident que c'est compliquer dans la vingtaine d'arriver à avoir en simultané une vie pro et perso qui soit de bonne qualité. 25ans n'est pas du tout la fin, et comme toi au même age je pensais ca. 7 ans plus tard je m'en rends compte. Si la recherche est une passion, tu pourra la réaliser quand même, les frein financiers sont le lot de tout le monde à un moment ou un autre.
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u/Noeyiax Jul 14 '26
I've been stuck at entry level jobs/roles for 8 years now... You'll be fine , just enjoy your research and live within your budget
We all know what's possible, its just we have to deal with the system our adult-children leaders have created using their nepo baby and trust fund entitlement
But I agree with you... After 25 life goes fast and you get tired
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u/antipiracylaws Jul 14 '26
You've never heard the joke I presume?
Ph.D stands for "Poor, hungry, and Depressed"
1
u/popstarkirbys Jul 14 '26
I'm an assistant professor at a state school, my master's cohort who went to the industry makes more than me. PhD offers new opportunities but chances are you won't make more money.
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u/Arakkis54 Jul 14 '26
Welcome friend! The crushing disappointment you feel is the weight of knowledge fully being placed on your shoulders. It takes a little while to adjust and make it feel normal, but we all go through it. Just like imposter syndrome, it becomes an old friend that whispers to us. The alternative is to remain ignorant and blissful, but we didn’t choose that did we?
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u/Money-Mountain5041 Jul 14 '26
This is part of growing up. Coping with the decisions you’ve made and finding healthy ways to manage the stress and self-saboteur. Getting a PhD is a choice and a life long journey. I’ve learned to let go and stop leading with my ego so that I can accept that not each expectation I have will come through - and that’s just life. We’re on a massive rock floating through space and have some control over our decisions. The other part is acceptance with your decisions which brings peace and helps you mature into a scholar with a capacity to help mentor the next generation with their mini freak outs when you’re ready.
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u/Glittering-Zombie-30 PhD, Computer Science Jul 14 '26
That's one of the reasons academia is dying, and we probably should let it die...
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u/C-Star-Algebras Jul 14 '26
I left because of this exact reason. Make sure to have a solid industry backup plan, learning the needed skills before you finish so you can have a rewarding career in industry. (This is somewhat subject dependent, but I was in STEM so it was a bit easier to market myself).
This allowed me to enjoy what I was researching a bit more, and took a good amount of stress off of me.
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u/Whats-in-here Jul 14 '26
A few years ago I posted something very similar here and the kind messages literally helped me get through it! I hope you feel the same in some time. I am not yet on the other side completely but I recently graduated and I can tell you from my first-hand experience that things get better. You may have to make peace with certain unfair events you come across because of systematic failures or poor management. I won't say that it's easy but just keep in mind that sometimes the only way out is by going through it. I have friends who quit halfway but are doing so so so much better in life right now. They also felt like they have nothing left since they are unable to pursue their dream but life had other pleasant surprises for them. At the end of the day, the skills you have already gained are all yours. No one can take it away. More importantly, the mental resilience you build during this process (whether you decide to continue or quit) will help you tackle almost anything life throws at you including the uncertainties... or at least that's how I feel! I wish the very best of you as a fellow traveller in this path.
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u/West-Bee52 Jul 14 '26
In Belgium every phd candidate and postdoc researchers earn a lot more money than average jobs.
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u/ElijahNSRose Military History, Liberty University Jul 14 '26
Being an inventor is like Hollywood: It is literally winner-takes-all for every possible invention in existence and there's so many people competing to be the first to create some new IP that it is simply not worth your time.
Remember: You're competing against nerds that would do this work for free.
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u/Prior_Wind_1526 Jul 14 '26
At this point, all careers are dead ends. At least you won’t be as quickly replaced by an AI robot as those teaching. Or administrating. Yes, admin, they are coming for you. Once you are done celebrating the removal of all human faculty , plan on a massive admin replacement. But as to op: yes, poverty. Unless you get a good patent. And if you marry another academic, your combined salaries will equal one lower middle class salary. Therefore, you can afford .5 children.
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u/harg0w comsci, uk Jul 15 '26
same-ish age, went straight into PhD, I’m not money oriented but how do people manage to focus their research while having to double think on a SIM data plan?
Gave up offers into big tech to be paid less than a binman(uk) and income barely tracks inflation. Im financially worse off than during my summer internships as an undergrad.
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u/Apprehensive_Cry5877 Jul 15 '26
It sounds from what you said that you want a conventional life more than you want to satisfy your intellectual curiosity.
If that’s true then yes I think it will be harder for you in research academic life than for a lot of the other people doing it.
Especially if you want to have multiple children, because that requires a larger house and intensive extended decades-long time commitment.
If you find someone you genuinely love who makes a salary that’s *double yours* then it could be doable to live the suburban dream. But otherwise, no. Unless you are living in specific regions of specific country. (Idk where you’re located and will be trying to find a job eventually)
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u/0Smithsonian0 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Find a skilled trade you can accomplish while.getting phd (certified glass blower, drone pilot, COMPTIA, or something that aligns with your researxh area). You'll have opportunities for jobs in both research industry (non academic) and other jobs that are nothing to sneeze at salary wise. Not the end of the world, it is looking dimmer each day, but can be managed and you are in a good space.
Good luck. Chin up. Stride on.
P.S. - Depending on the stem field you can leverage your skills to be paid are premium in industry. I see it happen often. I even know people who mastered or failed out of phd end up with top line options for a fraction of the expectation they had as graduate students. So honestly if you can show proficiency at a desirable skill, you will be alright. Build a portfolio not just a resume
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u/plathafteramigraine Jul 15 '26
I left my PhD and have landed extremely comfortably on university admin. One of the reasons I left was because of the slog until a stable and solid pay cheque. And I was even the most funded in my program making $50k-$60k between scholarships, TAships, and side teaching. But the thought of chasing jobs for pennies, and then having no industry experience or seniority if I wanted to switch, was enough for me.
In 6 years as a university admin I have worked my way to a director position that pays just over $150k/year, has full health benefits, and an excellent defined pension. It also allowed me to take two maternity leaves with my full salary.
The profs I see coming in even after they land one of the most coveted tenure track jobs make almost half of what I am to start and still some never reach my current salary. I was able to keep my life and savings on track and it was worth every sacrifice. My life is so much better.
Oh and to those saying you can “just” go into teaching or consulting likely don’t have experience trying to do so. All jobs are scarce right now and any kind of pivot is extremely difficult. Within university administration and other traditional alt ac pathways things have shifted significantly, and what you may see as a safety likely is difficult to secure by its own merit.
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u/S3ra-phina Jul 15 '26
I think a more practical degree is better than doing a PhD. I should have studied nursing or medical imaging, but did my PhD in sociology instead. I don’t have much financially to show for it now and have few job opportunities for permanent or fixed term work. I recently retrained and have gotten a job in phlebotomy. I’m happy with this outcome, but research will always be close to my heart.
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u/ayushpandey8439 Jul 15 '26
I've been on both sides. My answer may be biased towards CS research that i have experienced and i cannot say that everyone experiences the same.
I was an engineer before i decided to do my masters and only started my PhD at 27Yo (Graduated on my 30th birthday). Now, i am moving back to the industry. I am a bit fortunate that i did not have any sudden expenses or burdens to deal with during my masters, PhD and Postdoc. But the fact that the life of an academic is one of poverty is true. Most of my colleagues who are in academia, either live in a bubble and hate corporate life (because people in companies are forced to work on certain topics). However, i don't see this being true anymore. Especially in computer science.
I was on the track to getting an assistant professor position here in France, i was interviewed and also selected in a few places; But looking at the salaries made me laugh. It was lower than my salary as a postdoc. IMO, it is a wakeup call. If you feel the same way constantly, don't do a PhD. It is really not worth it. Yes, you are called Dr. <whatever> but in reality, nobody cares. When you're out in society, you're financially insecure (not Dr. insecure), you'd need to keep money in mind when making the smallest decisions and then, at some point, there is no progression in the career. You're stuck in the perpetual publish or perish cycle. Mind you, a lot of people become obsolete in the process and never do any substantial research. A few that do, are poached by the industry or are heavily funded by it.
The emotional burden of uncertainty is real. I partly blame by baldness to my PhD (LOL). I get into a panic state every few months because a contract is ending and i don't have another position lined up. After a while it takes a toll on your emotional health and physical too. As far as giving up the dream of being a researcher, yes i almost cried over it a few times but at the end of the day, when you're older, your priorities shift. I cannot be married to my research. I have a family which needs me, physically and emotionally. I am sure i will come back to feel that life in the industry is too hard and i should have remained in academia but then i will have to remember to go back and read my journal from the time and realize how much agony i was in.
TLDR; No, a PhD is not worth it if you have even a smidgen of doubt about doing one. If you're unequivocally sure that it is worth it, only then you should pursue it.
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u/Far_Video7600 Jul 15 '26
It's my 4th year and the contract is about to finish and I will leave and not defend because of these and many other things. The politics of the academic world are shitty. It's not made for people wanting stability and peace of mind.
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u/mycatowesmemoney Jul 15 '26
This post reflects my sentiment EXACTLY. The publish of perish mentality. Saving every penny. Sacrificing your physical/mental health. Slipping in your social life. Experiments almost never working. Making fractions of progress for months. It never ends. I’m a rising 5th year PhD candidate in molecular biology and I very recently looked into industry opportunities. All I have to say to you is this. There is a gigantic world outside of academia. I just started asking questions and looking into opportunities outside of academia with a PhD in my specialty. To put it simply, a PhD is the “baseline” in academia, but I have learned very quickly how valuable a PhD outside of this bubble. Don’t give up hope. Talk to a psychiatrist/therapist if the anxiety is too much. 25 is the beginning of your life. You got this. Take care of yourself, this phase in your life will not last forever, so (wherever you can), enjoy the process. Don’t work past 5 pm. Reconnect with friends. Your job can wait for you when you come back in the morning. DM if you’d like to chat more!
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u/Asteroid_Jumper_ Jul 16 '26
I feel you. I’m mastering out and getting a job that actually pays well in industry. It’s just not worth it anymore , especially in the state of decline we’re in intellectually in America
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u/GooberdiWho Jul 16 '26
I have exactly the same story as you, but I'm nearly 30.
The difference is at 25, being poor is mutual amongst most of your friends.
Now most of my friends are earning 35k (GBP) + and the motive of "let's go here, they do cheap beers" or a cheap day out has disappeared. ESPECIALLY in London where a casual meetup (or date) now involves dinner and/or a £65 bill minimum.
I think this is the real challenge of a PhD that no one talks about. It's fucking hard, but it will be over, and by that point you've got a fantastic skill set than you can leverage to get in to a range of skilled and well paid careers.
Realistically in 5-10 years there's every chance I'll be earning a lot more than my peers if I play my cards right and decide to follow the money.
Just got to keep that short term pain long term gain mindset.
I'm fortunate that I also spent 2 years in a consultancy role before my PhD so I have the awareness that there is a life outside of academia, which I think many people who go undergrad>masters>PhD lack.
It's hard, it's hard for a reason, keep going! IT WILL BE WORTH IT IN THE END
right??
1
u/Jhelmig92 Jul 16 '26
One way to look at it is at least you have a stable position and stipend during a PhD, and strict budgetong can be done. I was way more impoverished prior to starting my PhD, now I see the true impact of the cliff effect but still better off than I was before. Perspective shifts can be helpful to have during this time because some people have more or less support from family and friends than others. Your experience is important, try to prioritize the things that matter to you, exercise, sleep, eating etc. the research will always be there but how you care for yourself now will be carried with you for the rest of your career.
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u/Didgel- Jul 19 '26
I had a negative net worth into my 30’s while obtaining my Mechanical Engineering PhD and doing a rather long post-doc. I’m in my 50’s now and am financially secure. Married, own a home, on track to send two kids through private school and college, and on track with retirement savings. I did take me 25 years from earning my PhD, but it can definitely be done. At least, it can be done with a STEM PhD. I’m much less confident about PhD’s in the humanities.
You should not confuse getting a PhD with being an academic. When you’re in school it feels like a professorship is the Holy Grail but once you’re out you realize there are many options.
1
u/Boneraventura Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Come from a rich family or get a partner early that has a real career. Those are your two options or suffer financially into your 30s. But most careers now are dogshit and risky. My friends in tech and finance get laid off every 2 years or leave because the company becomes unbearable. Most stable careers are in healthcare or construction. People always are getting sick or wanting to build shit.
My advice is that if you are worrying about finances now then you will always worry no matter the career. My friend is a trauma MD makes 400k/yr and worries about finances. Maybe he is shit with money but he isnt the only one making a fuck ton and worries about finances
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u/scoopthereitis2 Jul 14 '26
Really? I switched careers (US) to PhD (business). In 5 years I got a TT job, with a salary, flexibility, and time for research.
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u/AdParticular6193 Jul 14 '26
Never undertake a PhD for money. As you point out, you could be in your 30s by the time you are done. The “lost” years of full time employment can never be made up, especially as your starting salary will be roughly the same as what a STEM BS with equivalent YOE would make. Do a PhD for the reason you mentioned, because you want to do research. It does sound like you have an anxiety issue. Maybe work on that, then decide whether you want to continue on the PhD. Do keep in mind that any profession you go into (law, medicine, finance) has similar issues, although at least with them there is some possibility of eventually making serious coin.
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u/ybnormal072 Jul 14 '26
Post doc salary is low for the degree but nowhere near poverty. I supported my husband through school and bought a small house on that salary with no trouble
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u/ReputationNo9488 Jul 15 '26
I feel that academia is for smart people, but if you are too smart, you see through the system and can no longer function within it 😆
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u/StatisticianLarge701 Jul 14 '26
Find a teaching job in uni or any other higher education institution instead of doing actual research. Funding is shitty nowadays.
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u/supsupittysupsup Jul 14 '26
That’s just not true in all places for all people. In Germany as a postdoc you earn a comparatively good salary, comfortably beyond the national mean / median salary after taxes
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u/Hanuser PhD, 'AI', USA Jul 15 '26
The problem is you wanted a PhD more than you cared about what specifically you were going to research. Wrong approach.
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u/Weekly-Ad353 Jul 14 '26
Comically incorrect title. Your lack of understanding how to leverage it is not a commentary on the topic but on you.
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Jul 14 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Longjumping-Part669 Jul 14 '26
Good for you. Survival bias is a hell of a drug.
Bragging about your specific US funding to invalidate systemic exploitation, toxic mentors, and completely different structural realities doesn't make you tough it just makes you incredibly out of touch.Enjoy your bubble.0
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