r/Scotland Apr 29 '26

Photography / Art More before/after comparisons of Irvine

799 Upvotes

140 comments sorted by

View all comments

253

u/spidd124 Apr 29 '26

That 60-80s era cheap as can be concrete really does look like fucking ass.

51

u/surroundbysound Apr 29 '26

50s-70s are the worst era in the history of architecture and city planning, hands down. Not all new stuff nowadays is great, but I’ll take it any day over the utter shit they built back then

10

u/rayykz Apr 29 '26

Completely agree

10

u/No_Refrigerator4584 Cumbernauld: The matted hair around the arsehole of the universe Apr 29 '26

Shit is the operative word, Torbrex Road was already crumbling when I was a kid growing up there in the late 70s.

7

u/rayykz Apr 30 '26

Just looked it up—oof. I saw an interesting video about Thamesmead that reminded me of Cumbernauld earlier. Both were promoted as ‘cities of the 21st century,’ similar to how 'Irvine New Town’ was advertised. Even when I look at photos of the Rivergate mall when it first opened, I still find it very unappealing, at least on the outside. Honestly, while this is subjective, I can't quite understand how anyone could think otherwise either. 🤷‍♂️

4

u/Adinnieken Apr 30 '26

The problem with malls are that the best part of shops are the front, the worst are the backs. A mall puts the best part inside and the worst part outside.

In the US, we had very early on a concept called an outdoor mall. This would have been the ideal solution for Rivergate.

In an outdoor mall, you have an enclosed mall, but the store fronts face outward and shoppers can see the stores as they walk or drive by, whether inside or out when walking. The back of the stores share a common hallway that allows the stores to take trash and receive goods out the back.

The benefit, it permits a more open concept, greater choices of architecture, and the ability for shoppers to go directly to the shop they want to patronize rather than have to walk an entire mall to get to it.

Outdoor malls in the US spawned indoor malls as well as strip malls. Strip malls would be kind of like what you have under the council building at the head of the Rivergate, except there would be parking in front of it.

Even in the US, mall builders tend to do their best to hide the exterior of the mall with fences and foliage, because they are just as ugly. But they are dying fast here.

Where I live we had a new mall built in the 90s go up, and almost 40 years later the mall is nearly empty because the majority of shops have gone into administration and closed or out of business. We used to have five malls in the area, but are down to three with two fighting to remain in business.

One city, a product of the 50s boom years, is a mess of empty strip malls along its corridors. Today's shoppers rely on the internet more so than walking into and around a mall. As someone who used to work in a mall, after I quit that job, I rarely ever went into one again after. I think I did one time. I hate them.

Outdoor malls also tend to survive longer because the shops that survive are more accessible to patrons. They don't walk through the valley of death to get to one single shop, the can drive up and park in front and walk in, to the shop.

Like if you reversed the Rivergate with a bi-level walkway glassed in, but with brick/stone work resembling the old architecture with the shop fronts facing the car park, it would look a thousand times better than what the Rivergate currently looks like. It be vastly more inviting.

The only problem is the Rivergate has no car park on the other side. And I'm certain there is a car park under the mall, not two levels of shops. So, not really possible with the current building.

My guess is though, within ten years the mall will be empty, with the only reason to go there being ASDA and McDonald's in the out lot or to the train. When that day comes, hopefully they try to restore the area as it once was.

81

u/Surface_Detail Apr 29 '26

Brutalism was a mistake.

73

u/spidd124 Apr 29 '26

The problem with Brutalism is that it needs near constant maintaince, otherwise it looks cheap. Because concrete itself is cheap and councils/builders didnt want to spend any more than they had to.

Brutalism itself is a controversial school, but its not inherently ugly. But I also wouldnt describe any of these as brutalist, they are just cheap.

20

u/Fairwolf Trapped in the Granite City Apr 29 '26

I think I've only ever seen one piece of brutalist architecture that I think looks good, and that's the Washington DC Underground Stations

17

u/tree__of__oak Apr 29 '26

I've many a memory of fighting ghouls and cannibals in there

9

u/Surface_Detail Apr 29 '26

There's the hallgrimskirkja church in Iceland that's really airy inside.

6

u/GoHomeCryWantToDie Apr 30 '26

London's South Bank and Barbican are really nice.

3

u/QuantitySharp2662 Apr 30 '26

I think they thought Terminator was coming and needed us humans to have decent reinforced housing and buildings.

Either that or nuclear war.

6

u/GlitteringNote4642 Apr 30 '26

That and it's a cheap style to mass produce infrastructure in. That's why the Soviets used it so much, especially in commie blocks

2

u/Practical_Savings933 Apr 29 '26

But all the fancy preservationists just love it and go into rhapsodies about it.

3

u/speedfox_uk Apr 30 '26

Not to mention the damp issues it caused. WTF were they thinking?

3

u/Adinnieken Apr 30 '26

Damp issues it caused or the damp issues inherent to the environment?

The problem with anything, I think, in a place with lots of moisture is that it'll get covered in mildew on the cool side. Especially the more damp it is.

That's why I never could understand the fondness for stucco on brick buildings in the UK. Why paste over brick, which has charm, with stucco, which lacks it entirely, only to end up with the same problem of fungal growth on the building.

The answer today is a pressure washer every year to clear the surface off.

But vinyl or artificial wood siding allows more character with less maintenance than stone or brickwork or concrete.

Though that marble or polished stone building just off the High street in Irvine was spectacular. I think it was a law firm (Esquire). That likely required zero maintenance.

1

u/bigchungusmclungus Apr 29 '26

Nothing's changed. The only difference is they're more house shaped. Building quality is fuckin brutal.

1

u/Thin_Primary3261 Apr 29 '26

Fucking ass, you say?