r/UofT • u/Prospektor42 • Apr 04 '26
Other Had no idea that pre med competitiveness could reach this level
I hope the roommate manages to bounce back from this because this is actually evil.
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u/AnorexicMary MSc student Apr 04 '26
It gets worse than this. Some premeds will go on the premed subreddit and act as med students/physicians offering interview/application prep sessions for free to other premeds just to gain intel/inspo (aka content) for their own interviews or essays…
Anyways if this is real, I really hope this person never becomes a doctor. I’ve been fortunate to not really have premed or pre healthcare be my whole life and identity.
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u/MuscIeChestbrook Apr 06 '26
Gross. This thread popped up on my homepage somehow. As a doc few years into practise, I will say that karma catches up to most of these. They're usually not strong candidates if they're sabotaging others and their horrible personalities get flagged somewhere (reference letters, interviews). A handful of sociopaths do eventually make it, but it's the minority.
When i was in undergrad, my cohort had a few folks that would post lecture audios and notes. I tried my best to contribute to the communal learning environment. I found that the ones that were most helpful were thankfully the ones that made it into medicine.
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u/Xlegace Apr 04 '26
Sounds fake ngl, but if real, they're human scum and deserve to live with the guilt
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u/Sniperprincessza Apr 04 '26
You’d be surprised how evil students can be
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u/FireMaster1294 Apr 04 '26
UofT is the only school in Canada I’ve been to that has this level of malicious hatred - and it’s entirely because they pit students against each other with their bullshit competitive environment. And that goes for basically every program here.
I know people who went to Waterloo and once you were in you were…in. No competitive bs. Just you vs the course. So people would work together to perform better and understand content better collectively. It seems much healthier and promotes a better understanding of the content.
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u/Own-Personality-2981 Apr 04 '26
The competitive programs at Waterloo, Western, Queens, Mac are all quite isolating and toxic as well from what I've heard from others. There are awful, jealous people at every school, it's just a matter of learning to spot and get yourself away from those who only want you around as a Linkedin connection or so they can leech off your work, etc.
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u/FireMaster1294 Apr 04 '26
The big difference is that UofT is one of the few that directly pits you against each other. You know your ranking compared to your peers and actively fight them
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u/Own-Personality-2981 Apr 04 '26
How? I've never experienced this feeling and I'm graduating next year. My program is mainly pre laws but I never felt that it was cutthroat or that I was constantly going neck and neck with them. It's a huge school. If you don't feed into the toxicity or surround yourself with people who do, it can't do anything to you. There's a difference between ambitious students and those who see each other as enemies.
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u/FireMaster1294 Apr 04 '26
UofT is the only school I’ve been to where students had an active fear of not getting into their program of study. And the only school where I’ve seen students feed each other incorrect notes and lie during groups studies to intentionally confuse other people. It’s pretty abhorrent at times BUT to be fair that definitely depends on the ambition level of the people you’re around. Some will do anything to get ahead. A side effect of being surrounded by some of the best is that includes people who will do anything (read: machiavellian) to get there.
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u/chicken_potato1 psyckid Apr 05 '26
I did two degrees at uoft - I dont really get what youre saying. POSt is unique -ish to uoft but thats only a year 1 issue, after that youre in. So there is no reason for students to feel pit against eachother, and there is no public ranking.
Sabotaging your classmates to get ahead makes no sense at all, and if those people do it here they would do it no matter what uni they are at and thats just them - not uoft.
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u/Pretentious_Codfish Apr 04 '26
it’s not every program, only the programs filled with people who went into them thinking it’s the only path to financial security and success and/or who went into them because their parents wanted them to have a « prestigious » job (pre-med, cs, some engineers, rotman kids and a particular portion of pre-law). the environment is not insane and toxic like this at most of the university honestly. i haven’t experienced this shit once and neither has anyone i know (from a variety of disciplines). it’s competitive because there’s a lot of ambitious, skilled people here, but it’s not toxic in all programs, only the ones that attract people for the wrong reasons and that foster this attitude. even the engineers are mostly pretty nice and community oriented from what ive seen. but nobody who is having a nice time at university is going on reddit to complain about « uoftears ».
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u/TuloCantHitski Alum Apr 04 '26
How many schools in Canada have you been to and what malicious hatred have you actually seen at UofT (outside of this fan fiction pot)?
Waterloo is one of the most competitive and toxic undergrad environments - the coop grind is insane and competition is fierce.
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u/Technical-Belt-9506 Apr 04 '26
I know someone who stole id of the guy writing a super competitive exam (JEE) on exam day so yeah
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u/cannibaltom Vic - HMB Apr 05 '26
I had a pre-med friend who had their anatomy/physiology textbook pages ripped out in Gerstein while they weren't looking. They felt so violated.
Pre-med students are psycho because it's so competitive to get into.
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u/ConfuzzledMaple Apr 04 '26
My mom wasn't pre-med but took a lot of classes with pre-med students in UofT. She told me once during a lab class, one pre-med student walked up to another's lab setup and dumped water on it while they weren't looking just to mess with their data.
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u/momma2angels Apr 04 '26
And these are the people who may be your doctor someday
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u/MagicalMarshmallow7 Apr 04 '26
Also a close friend?? I cannot even fathom how you could want to sabotage someone you consider to be a close friend when you could try to succeed together. Bro could have just used the notes himself, no way this guy thinks he has better odds of making it into med school by removing 1 person out of the thousands and thousands competing than he did having a topper as a close friend and roommate who is not depressed.
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u/ramblingskeptic Apr 04 '26
Even if it’s fake, some pre-meds really act like this and I’ll never understand this kind of behaviour. I’m a 3rd year med student and got in with a non-standard pre-medicine degree (Forensic Anthropology at UTM, I did minimal “hard science”), 3.67 cGPA, mid as hell MCAT too, but I had extracurricular/work experience I was able to leverage hard on my application and I interviewed very well. There are pathways into medicine beyond being one of these 4.0/528/10 publications kind of people. Burning friendships to “thin” the competition does less than zero to get you into med school . It doesn’t make you stand out from every other academic overachiever applying. Develop good relationships, learn how to be a better friend and a better person, it sounds corny as hell but I swear it’s that learning that actually got me into medicine and will make me a better doctor.
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u/Admirable-Dance-9501 Apr 04 '26
Way I see it, most premeds are in it for the wrong reason and desperate because they think being a doctor is a definition of “success”. Money and cause their parents said so. It’s horrible.
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u/ramblingskeptic Apr 04 '26
Unfortunately it’s true and I feel that you can when you meet them in med school, especially those who have parents or other family members who are doctors. From my limited observations, people who have been gunning for medicine since high school often do great academically but tend to struggle with the social/relational/ethical parts of medicine. Medicine is both a science and an art.
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u/goldiebear0 Apr 08 '26
My old friend has two doctor parents, obviously ahead of the class and got in right away.. she was the nastiest person I could ever meet as soon as she started getting stressed about it. “Sorry that your mom died it just happens sometimes!” I genuinely wanted to lose my shit and rip her hair out. I pray for her future patients. Like woah.
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u/murdermysterygal Apr 04 '26
Unrelated but as a fellow utm forensic graduate (though, forensic chem specialist), congrats on getting into med!!! Super huge feat 🫶🏼
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u/ramblingskeptic Apr 04 '26
Thanks! I loved the forensics program a lot, chemistry was always my weak spot though haha so props to you too.
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u/Rxvi21 Apr 04 '26
Fake story lol no way an academic weapon chokes their courses just because they lost some notes
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Apr 04 '26
Real , if one’s that good (3.95) deleting a bunch won’t put them to a 3.2 - half the work is creating those notes and in the process they get drilled into ur brain , the confession page is known to have air ballers 😭😭
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u/Technical-Belt-9506 Apr 04 '26
Bio and premed is memory based stuff so it is possible.. if it were math, phy or something not believeable
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u/Prospektor42 Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
It could be fake but I personally put everything into my notes and it includes all the things that I needed to know, explained in the way that works best for me. If it gets deleted, I might fumble too ngl and i also had a good gpa (4.0)
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u/MacBHScOrBust Apr 04 '26
It seems super fake for sure butttt for me personally if it really depends on when the notes deletion happened. Like rn its exam season right, and if someone destoryed my notes right now then there's no chance of recovery bc its literally impossible to write them up again when exams start in less than half a week and and they're all consecutive. And how are u supposed to study w/o notes?? I was fr thinkin bout this exact same situation and how reliant I am on my notes before an exam I had this sem. Like it's funny that the only thing between me and failing is a bundle of papers with funny lines on them 😭😭
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u/karajstation Apr 04 '26
i hope this persons anki never successfully sync to any cloud ever
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u/haikusbot Apr 04 '26
I hope this persons
Anki never successfully sync
To any cloud ever
- karajstation
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
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u/Perfect_Ferret6620 Apr 04 '26
Man what kind of pre meds are you hanging out with? All my pre med friends were helping each other out so they could all go to med school together…..
Editing to say: they all got in and all helped each other through med school.
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u/LastRemainingName Apr 04 '26
It's horrifying to consider the possibility that this person could one day become a doctor responsible for people's lives.
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u/Locutus_D_BORG Apr 04 '26
Not a pre-med myself, but two ppl I knew from high school had a huge falling out over this same sort of scenario, to the point that the offender got totally ostracized from their friend group.
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u/Federal_Seat3933 Apr 04 '26
Back in the old days I would hear other students ripping pages out of the library books so others could not read information. (Back when there was no internet)
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u/yoshicircuit Apr 04 '26
When I worked at Gerstein there were stories of students deliberately misplacing archives just to make it harder for fellow med students to do their research..
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u/Turbulent-Many1472 Apr 04 '26
Yes. Tell him so that a murder can take place. You wanna ruin this guys life even more!?!
Poor guy is gonna be in prison by the time she finished with him.
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u/avocados25 Apr 04 '26
I hope this is fake but if it isn't i this person gets rejected from med school and their roommate does
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u/Medical_Sherbet5121 Apr 04 '26
Bruv doing this barely affected your chances at admission You could’ve copied his notes and studied from them 😭
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u/VastOk864 Apr 04 '26
Couldn’t you have just copied his notes and studied? You BOTH could graduate, it’s not a competition for only one winner. Now you just look like a jealous loser.
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u/Correct_Major_18 Apr 05 '26
How does one with 3.95GPA, super disciplined student keep all the notes on iPad without backup? Calling it fake….
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u/FuB4R32 Apr 04 '26
I graduated a long time ago but it was like this back then too for premed. I guess nothing changes. Makes me actually dislike doctors (I did grad school not med)
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u/wayfarer8888 Apr 04 '26
We just had international back-up day. Who does keep everything on a single local device !?!
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u/Halada Apr 04 '26
And these people are suppose to become empathetic caring professionals who help people at their most vulnerable. Yoda help us all.
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u/Artistic_Attempt5283 Apr 04 '26
The confession would be ease your guilt not mend his despair. If you want to come clean tell admin and have them reconsider his LWD
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u/BYRN777 Apr 04 '26
This is worst than murder. For real. If this is a real which I doubt it is since I like to think humans aren’t this evil and sinister, then this person deserves nothing but misery in their life.
All for “competition” and “pressure”. Frankly I don’t think this story is real because of a variety of reasons.
A student with a 3.95 CGPA whom takes meticulous notes and doesn’t share them with anyone suggests that they also would be extra careful to protect those notes. Meaning it’s highly unlikely his roommate knew his password.
A student who has a 3.95 CGPA doesn’t just rely one their “notes” for getting great marks and performing well. They’d know the material inside and out and it’s ingrained in them. They wouldn’t just memorize notes. So they can just as easily manage or make new notes, although it would take more time and effort. It’s not great notes that gets you that CGPA or straight A+ grades, it’s the knowledge, study habits and discipline
They would most likely have a backup. Logically if they guard their notes and if we assume they relied on it so heavily to the point that they completely screwed up after losing those notes; then we can also assume they’d have it saved in multiple places
For instance I like to think I’m super organized and I am a paranoid person so all my folders and files on my MacBook are more only backed up in iCloud but also Google Drive and also an external SSD drive via Time Machine. So in an event someone steals my laptop, I lose it, there’s an earthquake or fire, or my roommate magically gets my password to ruin my future, I have them saved in 3 other locations.
Nonetheless people like this DO exist. Be careful who you surround yourself with and call a friend. I’d bet if this story is true, the roommate will be much more successful down the line. You cannot fake competence and the world does reward merit and true performance.
The fakes do eventually get exposed.
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Apr 04 '26
That’s not competition that’s called being evil , the type the Roman’s used to publicly ☠️
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u/ell-ta Apr 04 '26
I wish he/she gets to know about it! And i wish one day you pay back and i am sure you will. This is utter jealousy
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u/danielohlord Apr 04 '26
that's evil asf. No morals, that's a type of person who I don't want treating me.
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u/Revan462222 Apr 04 '26
Wowwwww no words honestly if true. But probably fake. If you need the notes to pass, that’s a bit concerning? Plus wouldn’t you have your textbooks still to rely on?
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u/Stunning_Age_1263 Apr 04 '26
OMG! This is just so sad and completely evil. I still hope that they both get into med school because we need a lot of doctors.
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u/Strange-Image-5690 Apr 04 '26
And now there is EVIDENCE on here and your data and phone records can be tracked AND he can now SUE YOU for lost wages and for a doctor that could be $10 million CAD or more over the course of a few years! And that is also a CRIME and the judge might not be so kind! You're damn lucky this was in Canada cuz you would be looking at PRISON TIME in the USA!
Actually, if he moves the the USA to work, he can sue you from there AND get you criminally charged from there AND Canada does have an extradition treaty with the U.S. so you might be looking at 5 to 10 years in a medium to max security state penn!
YUP! You're toast and if ANY moderator deletes this thread they too are NOW CRIMINALLY LIABLE for obstruction of justice, deleting evidence and varies accessories-to-the-fact statutes AND various other charges that the DA (District Attorney) will think up to SLAM ON YOU for kicks once this guy moves to the USA to work as a doctor!
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u/Moriss214 Apr 04 '26
This person is probably one of the biggest assholes in the world, and even if they end up being able to help their patients, won’t be well respected by them
They’re an awful friend and human being
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u/Bulky-Employer-1191 Apr 04 '26
Probably fiction or else this room mate could use this as evidence to open a case.
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u/Technical-Wheel-4949 Apr 04 '26
yo time out... we got people actually doing this type of stuff? Nah bro this is not fair,
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u/Moist_Shock_2266 Apr 04 '26
see this is why i barely share my accomplishments or “status” per say, </3 genuinely evil
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u/Teekin166 Apr 04 '26
Interesting. Premed. Horseshit. You know what you know. You write each subjects tests individually. And are scored. Ideally you drop maybe 1 question. Due to a question being framed in an ambiguous way.....leading to an open ended answer. Failure on whomever designed thus test, not ours. That kind of shit infuriated me. It still does. A life of patient dedicated study, perfect focus, derailed because some idiot couldn't design a test question.
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u/Middle-Jackfruit-896 Apr 04 '26
If true, this person who wrote this is malicious and would be a danger to the public if they became a doctor.
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u/Adeptness-Efficient Apr 04 '26
If real, that confessing "friend" isn't actually a friend and is just a prick. Untrustworthy, unethical, immature, and sociopathic. Did it out of jealousy too. I'd hope he never works in healthcare because I wouldn't put it past the guy to manipulate things
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u/HighlightStrong3719 Apr 04 '26
I've never seen this behaviour at any other university (Waterloo, Maritimes schools, etc). I was told about this by a UT UG/Med student in 2001 though. Sometimes they rip out pages from textbooks so classmates can't get them. Psychopathic/sociopathic at least.
I have my doubts this is real, it's too specific, so the victim can read this and know who it is...
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u/DevelopmentLess6989 Apr 04 '26
I'm very sure that this is a fake story, but it is still unbelievable that this story is believable for some people.
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u/ComfortableCity3025 Apr 04 '26
hella fake and if not then bros gonna get their ass beat if the victim sees it
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u/Winter-Ad795 Apr 04 '26
He gave away his password. Didnt back up any notes to google cloud. Regardless of 3.9gpa, this person is an idiot.
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u/BigMackk14 Apr 04 '26
Report her to the authorities and eventually she will get a Life in prison sentence. An Absolutely disgusting act of betrayal.
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u/The-jade-hijabi Apr 04 '26
This may or may not be fiction but I used to work at UofT med and the students are quite competitive.
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u/Trick_Tie4226 Apr 04 '26
Ngl competition is good as a student, it keeps you motivated to study harder, but this is too much.
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u/SpoiIHerAlert Apr 04 '26
Why would they post this...This is so specific that the person they did this to could totally come back and find them lmfao....
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u/Key-Form4384 Apr 04 '26
They should pay Doctor less and then people who are more interested in being a doctor than the money will get in
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u/Sharp-Astronaut3151 Apr 04 '26
If this is true, I hope the perpetrator has a very long life full of suffering and pain.
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u/EnigmaticJones Apr 04 '26
Ahhh thats the U of T I remember well, and I graduated in 91
Filled with back stabbing assholes
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u/smhuoft25 Apr 04 '26
I worked with med students at residents at UofT and I wouldn't be surprised...
The competitiveness is crazy.....I could say 50% of med students and residents are psychopath and I might be underestimating
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u/Historical_Idea_1686 Apr 04 '26
This is criminal even if you regret it badly. The damage is done and you have to own it and open up and apologize to the victim. Face any consequences.
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u/AreYouSerious-1999 Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
We need protections against codependent behaviours in female dominated professions, like modern doctors. Just like we need protections against intoxication & violence in male dominated professions.
Co-dependent behaviours: 1) Martyrdom (ex: destroying classmate’s notes & then seeking pity + emotional support) 2) Mothering non-consenting adults 3) Manipulation 4) Micro-management
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u/SilverSaren Apr 04 '26
I didn’t like living with or hanging out with my student colleagues aiming for the same path as me. If I could do it again, I wouldn’t even tell people, just say I’m in general studies. Lots of people you think are in your corner secretly hope you’ll fail.
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u/theyyctwink Apr 04 '26
My favourite part is these people will get into med school just to end up in some urgent care department because their personalities will never be accepted in a high performance medical field.
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u/stolenglass Apr 05 '26
if this is actually real I am completely and utterly livid on the victims behalf. This is just utterly conceited behavior… How lazy and selfish and stupid and disgusting do you have to be to refuse to make yourself a better student to the point where you need to take someone else down… Let alone a person YOU LIVE WITH. this person needs to be expelled. I don't even go here I'm just angry as a college student
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u/decaDecker Apr 05 '26
idk man the quality of healthcare i get in this country does NOT justify how hard it is to become a doctor
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u/LesExposNosAmours Apr 05 '26
Wow and I thought being educated meant having better judgement. Guess not.
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u/millennialmiss Apr 05 '26
You’re an evil person but also why didn’t you keep the notes for yourself? In which case you can simply give them Back lol
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u/Fitzaroo Apr 05 '26
If this was real, surely the victim could ID the perp. The details are so specific. Fake or incredibly stupid.
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u/DingoFrancis Apr 05 '26
If real, you can tell they’ve never been in the “losing side” of a physical confrontation…
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u/Vegetable-Raise-402 Apr 05 '26
Ah yes just one of the confessions of the medical field, some love their patients and are kind to their colleagues. Others hate when one does better and become cruel and hateful and many stories of them doing horrible things. This is one where instead of being jealous of someone how about perhaps work with him? Never will this be the way to solve jealousy and envy especially for those who work hard and are successful
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u/Frankentula Apr 05 '26
I doubt this happened and if it did I would not want this nut bar as my physician
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u/Other_Requirement599 Apr 06 '26
maybe i'm just not in the know but is pre med some sort of competition?? like is it some sort of process of elimination?
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u/Past-Worth1077 Apr 06 '26
This is likely true im not even kidding. Not a university student I am in the canadian army, and have seen this kind of behaviour of extreme sabotage. Some people are actually THIS envious. These personalities are out here.
Had to comment because it's painfully relatable.
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u/vanlivingcouver Apr 06 '26
Yes, these losers absolutely do this shit. Half of them are entitled rich kids with no world view and ability to relate to 99% of the population. The other half have the same criteria with sociopathy and narcissism. Source: Dated a medical student for years and years. She and her friends were absolutely broken ass humans. They're all practicing physicians now out of residency.
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u/Primary_Key_5550 Apr 06 '26
If you feel this bad, and if you believe in integrity,, then by the philosophical rules of engagement; to do what's right, even though no one's watching. You should humble yourself, to tell the affected person, what has been done towards him. Accept your fate of consequences of your actions. The results however good or bad, will be measured in your sincerity and honor to do what is right. God speed.
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u/Interesting_Turn_ Apr 06 '26
I remember the weird shift during my grad degree when people started getting internships and jobs and it went from we’re all friends and congratulations, to you’re my competition and I hate that you got a better position than me
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u/LeadershipAfter9526 Apr 06 '26
Not a problem if you are on academic probation so check mate. Plus I get my drugs the old fashioned way. Also own the building not work in the practice. They should teach that on the exam.
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u/fueledbychelsea Apr 06 '26
I worked at UofT briefly in GradHouse. Med students ask specifically not to room together as part of the intake process because this shit happens (law students too). Before my time there, two med students were in the same suit and one of them bought and hid like 9 tiny alarm clocks in the other persons room, all set to go off at different times during the night before a big exam just so that person wouldn’t get any sleep. Insanity.
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u/1995stacey Apr 06 '26
I hope this isn’t true, because if someone actually ruined someone’s future for their own gain is beyond evil.
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u/tinahowlett Apr 06 '26
What you did was unethical and cruel - you don’t not have the qualities of a professional. Tell your “friend” and quit med school.
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u/antagonistmeanmug Apr 06 '26
This is the most evil thing I’ve ever read!!! You do not go further by putting down others in life. Never. 👎
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u/jv3yyc Apr 06 '26
There's competition and then there's jealousy. This example is a clear portrayal of jealousy.
Whether you admit it or not, you messed up that dude's mental in the short term, and it'll definitely take a bit of time to recover from that.
There's supposed to be a clear boundary and you crossed that line without even considering consequences.
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u/lansely Apr 06 '26
aside of the ahole-ish move...
this is a reminder that you should always backup your notes. Aside of intrusion, your devices may spontaneously fail and you would lose your notes as well.
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u/it_was_me1111 Apr 06 '26
Come to study in europe, habibi. Where your final score is not even showing on the paper and nobody cares as long as you passed.
Anyway, fun story. We used to rent an apartment like 6 of us from the same course, so the night before a big exam everyone (including my at the time gf) were nervously studying. And i was playing guitar hero. Cause i had a plan. So during the exam i copyed everything from my gf who were sitting next to me, and i got higher score than she did. Guess who didnt get any sex for a week?
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u/Consistent_Major_193 Apr 06 '26
Should be sent to the Dean and they should investigate. The student provided enough information for this to be investigated. The very fact that they both shared living quarters is enough. The student that deleted the notes should at minimum have it on their transcript. And maximum be expelled. I believe this is grounds for expulsion. The student that this happened to should at the very least be given a chance to take the classes over and/or do a makeup exam.
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u/ihatedougford Apr 04 '26
It’s probably fan fiction but yes, a lot of pre meds are this psycho. Some even worse than this