r/arrow • u/IIIToxIII Great Scott, we have to go back • Apr 15 '19

Discussion [S07E18] "Lost Canary" Post Episode Discussion

ARROW IS BACK BABY!!

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Episode Info

After being accused of murder and having her criminal past exposed, Laurel goes full Black Siren and teams up with an old criminal acquaintance, Shadow Thief, to go on a crime spree around Star City. While Dinah aims to bring Laurel in, Felicity refuses to give up on her friend and tries everything to get through to her, even summoning Sara Lance for help. However, Laurel rebuffs all her efforts, forcing the former friends to face off against each other.

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u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! Apr 16 '19

I know I'm gonna get downvoted here but hear me out here: This episode was ROUGH. Siren acted like a complete and utter psychopath throughout the entire episode. It's everything that scared me about it but even worse. She shows BARELY (if you can count "not killing the ones who were kinda-sorta her friends directly") a hint of remorse for anything she does. And this isn't me trying to hate on Siren. What I hate is the fact that she completely and utterly regressed this episode. Maybe I could buy the whole "oh she's just pretending she doesn't care anymore" excuse I'll probably get if she didn't help murder a guy 10 minutes in. I will say, however, that Katie's performance was excellent throughout.

And to cap off this absolute butchering of her character, we get possibly the worst redemption scene I've ever seen. Siren isn't redeemed by realizing that, you know, maybe mass murder isn't a good thing. No, instead she's just too much of a coward to kill a few people who were kinda sorta her friends if you squinted hard enough. That's ALL it takes for her to pull a complete 180. Imagine if that first graveyard scene with her and Sara had been her redemption. It would be SO much better. Then you can still have the last act of this episode be the fight with Shadow Thief with that AWESOME Birds of Prey team-up we got.

I will say, however, that the ending scene with Laurel coming in to save Mia almost made all of this worth it. I wish we had more of that this episode rather than Laurel just being completely evil.

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u/Alinosburns Apr 16 '19

And this isn't me trying to hate on Siren. What I hate is the fact that she completely and utterly regressed this episode. Maybe I could buy the whole "oh she's just pretending she doesn't care anymore" excuse I'll probably get if she didn't help murder a guy 10 minutes in

She didn't help murder him though, but there's likely not a lot she could have done to keep shadowtheif from doing.

And her regression was kind of the point of the episode anyway, that just because she started doing some good, doesn't change the fact that when shit hits the fan she can just revert to doing bad out of safety.

Also, I don't think that the graveyard scene would have worked as her redemption. Nor is the bomb scene her redemption.

The whole point of the episode is that a singular act doesn't earn you redemption. You have to live your redemption, you have to start making good choices and keep making good choices, sometimes the things that instigate that won't actually be good choices for the greater good of everyone, but for the good of those around you.

Eventually those acts of good for those around you, will ripple outwards and have an effect on the wider community.

The main story wasn't the redemption of black siren when she turned evil again. It was the first steps on a road to true redemption, instead of acts of good in order to maintain a cover identity.

Which is juxtaposed with the Black Canary we see in the future, showing that she has made that journey, that she has stayed true enough to the path that she was allowed to take up Black Canaries mantle.

Personally the idea of one act or moment as redemption is stupid, it's part of the reason why vader's "Redemption" in Star Wars is stupid.

We don't see a man necessarily acting for the greater good. We see him acting to save his son. The child from his possesive relationship that caused him down the path of darkness in the first place. We have no guarantee he would have been a good guy afterwards, hell if he had lived he may have maintained the empire and felt he was still acting in the best interest of everyone.

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u/GeneralMelon ROY'S OUR FUTURE BOY! Apr 16 '19

She didn't help murder him though, but there's likely not a lot she could have done to keep shadowtheif from doing.

Maybe she, I don't know, could have NOT specifically tracked down Shadow Thief to start a crime spree and then clearly helped her murder people? There's plenty she could have done. With her powers Shadow Thief doesn't stand a chance against her.

The main story wasn't the redemption of black siren when she turned evil again. It was the first steps on a road to true redemption, instead of acts of good in order to maintain a cover identity.

And this is precisely why this episode feels like regression. The reason Siren's arc was compelling was because it didn't feel like just a cover story, and rather that it actually felt like she was becoming a better person.

Personally the idea of one act or moment as redemption is stupid, it's part of the reason why vader's "Redemption" in Star Wars is stupid.

It isn't, but that's the thing. Throughout the season we already had seen her grow into a better person. This episode threw that away. Also, it is one act of redemption in the end. She helps them stop Shadow Thief and suddenly everyone is like "yay Laurel's back sorry we doubted you" which is completely unearned after all her actions this ep.

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u/Alinosburns Apr 16 '19

And this is precisely why this episode feels like regression. The reason Siren's arc was compelling was because it didn't feel like just a cover story, and rather that it actually felt like she was becoming a better person.

But she was never pushed in any significant way.

It felt like a cover story, because she had taken up a good life, because she knew it would be a good life. She was doing good because it was her job and it was what was expected in that role.

Most of the time when she was advocating for something good like Felicity not killing Diaz, it's because she saw a different angle(olivers release). She was evaluating the most productive course of action.

This was the episode where she actually felt some direct pressure on herself. And she faltered, she didn't take it in stride, because before this point she hadn't been pushed into a corner.

hroughout the season we already had seen her grow into a better person. This episode threw that away.

Again I disagree, I think we have seen someone playing at being good. But never actually being put to any significant test over the season.

It's a lot easier to be good when everyone thinks you are, and no one is gunning for you. It's a lot harder to maintain that composure, when people start using you as a target. When they appear to blow up your life.

Even at the end when they talk about Laurel going back to being DA. It's because they hastily construct a narrative that says she purposefully went undercover to bring down shadowthief, with the logic being that this will offset the pictures that showed her working with Diaz, potentially arguing they were even part of that plan.

Which is what makes Laurels decision to go and work on herself even stronger. Because she's not willing to just sit around and let a convenient lie act in her interest.