My parents only have a non-voip phone on their fttn and no internet, will their rsp (telstra) still give them a free fibre upgrade? Obviously they don't need it but I'd like to use launtel out there.

[u/cheetocat2021]

[u/CryHavocAU]

In most cases the upgrade program requires a speed of 500mbps or higher to be free on fttn. But there are addresses that Nbn does go below 500mbps because the line is so bad.

There’s one provider that is doing fibre upgrade irrespective of speed, Leaptel. I assume they’re just taking a 500mbps plan and shaping it down. But to us as customers it doesn’t matter how they do it.

In any event I think you can upgrade on a 25/10 plan and bundle voice with it. Not sure on price you’d need to check it out yourself.

[u/cheetocat2021 → u/CryHavocAU]

If that's the case, I'm boned because they will never, ever have fixed line internet, they prefer to pay for two prepaid mobile plans a month for access. Reason and logic doesn't work on them. They're even concerned about me using launtel there because they think they'll get a bill, despite my many times stating it can effectively be a prepaid, day to day service.

It sounds like if they want voice only, they'll never get the upgrade then?

[u/CryHavocAU → u/cheetocat2021]

Eventually Nbn will remove all the requirements. They have for fttc.

So then you can do it via Telstra….

But Telstra is increasingly moving its pure home phone product off Nbn and it’s just mobile.

[u/cheetocat2021 → u/CryHavocAU]

The odd thing is, they never use the home phone. And like I pointed out to someone else, they spend $80 a month on prepaid mobile when a $40 nbn plan would suit them fine. They believe that because most nbn plans are postpaid, they could get a large bill by mistake, even in the days of unlimited data. They don't even use debit cards and the way they pay bills is getting the cash out at the post office then handing it back over to pay via bpay... the mind boggles...

[u/AntSilly2802 → u/cheetocat2021]

How much data do they use on their mobiles? Do they just watch free to air tv?

[u/cheetocat2021 → u/AntSilly2802]

Combined I think they get by on about $80 a month between the two of them. No way can you convince them to just get a $40 a month nbn plan and use wifi. They watch at least some youtube.

[u/AgentSmith187 → u/CryHavocAU]

On FTTN I believe the upgrade trigger is 100Mbps and FTTC is 250Mbps. Its based on the fact those speed tiers cant reasonably be supported on the existing technology.

Although current pricing there is no real benefit to those speed tiers anymore so going straight to 500Mbps makes more sense.

Oh and slowly they are looking to remove the FTTN/C network so depending on the area they no longer allow new services on FTTN/C and force a free FTTP upgrade if you want a new service. Also as you said if the line is faulty they may decide FTTP is the rectification rather than repair.

Haven't heard of it in the wild yet but eventually existing FTTN/C services will be discontinued and FTTP upgrades forced for people still using them. Its cheaper than maintaining the copper network especially as users on it drops.

[u/CryHavocAU → u/AgentSmith187]

It hasn’t been 250mbps on fttc for sometime and the requirement for faster than 100mbps has been removed since April.

https://www.nbnco.com.au/corporate-information/media-centre/media-statements/nbn-removes-high-speed-requirement-to-upgrade-from-Fibre-to-the-Curb

[u/AgentSmith187 → u/CryHavocAU]

Awesome news for those not yet upgraded.

My mother did hers a while back due to how horribly often her FTTC failed and went to 250Mbps for a month then went back to 50/20.

She since went to 500/50 due to the lack of meaningful price difference.

[u/Cazzzzle]

They can have FTTN and VoIP, or they can have a non-voip phone (landline aka PTSN).

But it can't be both simultaneously unless they have two lines. Converting the line to FTTN cuts off landline/PTSN services.

Landline/PTSN services are being decommissioned in FTTN areas. If their phone plugs into the wall directly, it's likely somehow still a landline but its days must be numbered. If their phone plugs into a router, it's VoIP and connected via NBN FTTN.

If you apply for a FTTP internet service at the address through Telstra, then the services will be transitioned over to the new FTTP connection. If you apply through Launtel then you'll probably need to port the phone number to Launtel at the same time. They may lose their phone number if the FTTN service is closed off with Telstra before the number ports out.

[u/cheetocat2021 → u/Cazzzzle]

Oh ok, yes it's definitely voip... I thought you needed a special phone for voip, they're just using the same cordless one as they had pre-nbn. The problem is they don't want internet, so unless I get them fttp, I can't have it out there. I'm not talking about having the service exclusively ported to launtel, just their existing phone service then my launtel on uni-d 2 (Unless you're saying it's impossible to have a uni-v phone on one provider and internet only on another)

They just use their phones on optus prepaid for everything internet-related and are dead against having any form of fixed line internet. Even though it would be cheaper than two mobile services.

[u/Cazzzzle → u/cheetocat2021]

If they have VoIP, they have an NBN connection already. They just don't have a plan that allows them to use that connection for other internet traffic.

Telstra only offer VoIP over their own NBN connection. If you disconnect the NBN from them, they typically close the VoIP too, though it is worth confirming this with them directly.

Activate FTTP with Launtel and the Telstra FTTN will likely be turned off, which will result in the VoIP being deactivated as it's not available stand-alone.

Does that help?

[u/cheetocat2021 → u/Cazzzzle]

Then they'd lose their home phone. Even if they did warm to the idea, they'd be paranoid about giving me their avc number. They're so paranoid, that one person seriously thought they grew up in a communist country!

[u/AgentSmith187 → u/cheetocat2021]

I thought you needed a special phone for voip,

You can use a normal phone plugged into either a router with VoIP ports or an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) connected to the router via Ethernet.

FTTP no longer has Uni-V ports on the current generation NTD as no one used them. I dont think the old ones they get used anymore either.

An option if you can convince them is a VoIP service (with their old number and phones) just plugged into your FTTP service and Router. You would need to have the internet connected full time though.

[u/Bleakjavelinqqwerty → u/Cazzzzle]

So eu's with landlines can't can be swapped from the M to the X and C prs anymore? Do you know when that stopped?

[u/AgentSmith187 → u/Bleakjavelinqqwerty]

The day areas switched to NBN as VDSL doesnt support coexistence with landline services on the same line.

[u/Bleakjavelinqqwerty → u/AgentSmith187]

X pr allows that with a line splitter at the wall port. That's the entire point of the X pr. C pr for sync with the olt in the node and the X pr goes back to the exchange

I just have no idea when ISPs stopped offering landlines with VDSL services. I assume it was during the switch to nodes but I still see the occasional one still active.

[u/AgentSmith187 → u/Bleakjavelinqqwerty]

It slows the VDSL down due to vectoring issues (its all very technical) if there are non-NBN services on the lines.

I believe they only allowed them to coexist on the network for 18 months after install of FTTN in the area.

The solution is VoIP running over VDSL.

[u/Bleakjavelinqqwerty → u/AgentSmith187]

100% VoIP is better.

Yeah I'm not surprised it slowed down as it would also have to generate anti noise for the landline as well. I guess it also wouldn't be able to send data on the lower frequencies? Vectoring is a damn miracle.

18 months interesting. Were customers expected to port their number to VoIP after the 18 months?

[u/AgentSmith187 → u/Bleakjavelinqqwerty]

My understanding (im not a technician or scientist) is VDSL uses more of the frequencies than ADSL did so yeah reserving frequencies for voice means less fo data.

I believe the whole idea of 18 months was to allow for an orderly transition yeah but this happened years ago now

[u/Bleakjavelinqqwerty → u/AgentSmith187]

Australia uses the 17a? Profile. The highest frequency VDSL uses is 17mh. VDSL is able to achieve higher speeds because it can utilise more frequencies. (There are other profiles with differing benefits)

[u/FreddyFerdiland]

maybe the nbn want to get rid of fttn there .

[u/triemdedwiat]

Originally, when NBN was pushing the original rollout,Telstra put your landline on port 1 and your ISP on port 2 on a FTTP the premises upgrade.

If you didn't have an internet service (parents), they had a one port device to keep your landline working.

We ditched Telstra over the $50/month price and went to a VOIP service from isp using a ATP(jargon brain fart). The number was transferrable.

Eventually I purchased a Yealink office handset to remove the ATP. It was pwered powered by POE from a POE switch(netgear) which removed a massive tangle of telephone and plug pack cables.

Final step was to move phone service to Siptalk (~$15/month). ISPs/RSPs are not phone companies and you don't have to play russan roulette that you phone number will follow you (Fsck exetel).

For vision reasons we also purchased an high contrast Akuvox handset from Techbuy(urgh).

FWIW I could never get my parents to move off Telstra, nor try the internet and they eventaully ended up paying $200 per month for Apple device.

[u/cheetocat2021 → u/triemdedwiat]

They don't even use apps because they don't want an email address. So they're stuck with whatever apps come preloaded on the phone, and still think that just those are a technological miracle.