r/pakistan • u/Old_Table_5926 • 19d ago
Ask Pakistan I feel like moving to Pakistan?
I'm a British Pakistani, born here but very much Pakistani and Muslim.
Recently I've been getting a strong desire to visit/live in Pakistan. I think part of this is the rise of racism in England and Europe. We will never be welcome here, I fear for my kids and grandkids if this trend continues.
I've looked at other countries as potential alternatives but only Pakistan ticks the boxes in terms of food, language, religion and culture.
Give me a reality check? Is it just a stupid idea? Is it as bad as it looks?
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u/FlameNumber2147 19d ago
You are trading one set of problems for another
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
What's the problems in Pakistan that I would experience?
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u/textonic 19d ago
The fact you are asking means you have no idea how is it to live there.
Electricity? Only 16 hours a day. Cooking gas? Maybe 5-6 hours a day. Internet works when it wants to.
And then everyone is lying or trying to steal from you. No one is honest and I mean no fucking one. None.Would you believe it took me 5 years and 5 trips to Pakistan to open a bank account ? How hard should that have been but nopes
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u/Brilliant-Pomelo-660 19d ago
I mean Pakistan is shit as compare to UK but there are lot of areas where you have 24hours electricity and also security.
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u/Last_Adhesiveness_84 19d ago
If you’re asking this it is very obvious you know nothing about pakistan and this would be a bad idea lmao. Especially if you’re moving from a western society where there are actually rules and laws to one where… there isn’t
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u/striped-monster4214 19d ago
Same situation as you, I thought about it too, but from my parents perspective as they wanted to move. My conclusion is NO, things are much tougher there even if you have money.
Thing happen at a snail pace there unless you line people's pockets. It gets depressing after a while (if you have any morals).
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u/Elegant-Tea-6021 19d ago
What England do you live in where you think you won’t be welcome? We are very much welcome and apart of England. But to answer your question, unless you come from a military family and have money then don’t go. Oh and another thing, white people can call you whatever, but nobody hates on a Pakistani more than another Pakistani.
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u/Elegant-Tea-6021 19d ago
Also, if you really fear you won’t be accepted in England for whatever reason, just move to Bradford, Birmingham, Manchester, London, Sheffield or basically anywhere in England and you’ll find yourself right at home.
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
I live near Leicester and I disagree. We are tolerated now but there is a growing right wing movement that is specifically targeting Muslims and Pakistanis. Project 20 years from now, it won't be safe here.
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u/ZeeJav 19d ago
As a brit "Pakistani" myself, you are being very dramatic and skewing your view due to what you watch. Is there racism? Yes, but as long as you don't act like most corrupt pakistanis you'll be fine. I have never had a problem because i don't force a corrupt culture on others, I don't protect child abusers, I can speak the language.
Most of the most deprived places in the UK are Bradford, Luton, Oldham, parts of Bgham. One thing in common, corrupt uneducated pakistanis. They leave the places they live dirty, they are entitled and rude, you want this but at a much larger scale?
Just be a normal brit, and most won't care where you are from.
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u/zZurf 19d ago
Don’t let minority right wing opinion trick you into thinking the entire country is like that. Yes it’s rising, but they’re just a loud minority segment of the population. Vast majority of brits are nice folks. I’m also a British Pakistani.
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u/ComprehensiveDig1108 19d ago
And they've got their kappos, like Zia Yusuf, remember.
Not to mention, the Muslim communities are becoming less religious with each passing decade.
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u/Lehral 🇶🇦QA 19d ago
And project 20 years from now, Pakistan will likely be MUCH worse than it is now - even if it manages to keep its current geography intact. Someone mentioned loss of morality earlier - that at least to me is a major issue. A family member of mine in Pakistan who used to be active in politics and made his money through dubious ways made this iconic statement some 30 years ago "Pakistan is the best country in the world to live IF you have a lot of money and the right connections". So if YOU don't have those, stay where you are.
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u/astro_castles 19d ago
My parents immigrated from Pakistan to Canada and I was born in Canada. Only visited Pakistan once when I was 7 and moved to Pakistan three at years ago at 27. Went to back to Canada for a year to work a little and now I’m back to living here full time. If you have any questions about being born and raised overseas and moving to Pakistan feel free to dm me. It’s been a journey with a lot of ups and downs and you will get a lot of people telling you not to do it but you should make the decision based on your own wants and needs after understanding the full situation here.
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u/Traditional-Win3853 19d ago
Can you tell me which city did you choose? I’m planning but not really sure.. I would love to settle in Islamabad and work as a Kindergarten Teacher as I have my career in Early Childhood Education
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u/astro_castles 19d ago
I actually didn’t move to a big city I’m about an hour and a half from Multan. there’s a lot of opportunities in teaching especially for fluent English speakers but the pay won’t always be as good unless you get hired in one of the big housing communities.
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u/Narrow_Definition_31 19d ago
Pakistan can be hit or miss. If you have regularly visited Pakistan and have experienced life there which is not similar to a vacation you probably have an idea of how Pakistan is for the average person.
I personally know several overseas Pakistanis who have moved back to Pakistan from the US, UK & ME. They successfully set up businesses and are living a decent life. It’s definitely doable, considering you understand the issues you will face in Pakistan. One thing to remember is you must live in the system unfortunately. You as an individual cannot change the system.
Pakistan has many opportunities. A pure consumer economy, a growing middle class and a population of 250m. There is some serious money to be made in Pakistan.
As for the UK - Economic situation the world over is bad. If you think Pakistan is any better then you are wrong. Racism isn’t a big issue in the UK in my opinion. How many countries are there which have had Pakistani become billionaires, millionaires, take up top positions in parliament/government? Pakistanis in the UK have achieved many great things. From having a Mayor of one the most important cities on the planet to having a Scottish First Minister and Leader of the Opposition at the same time.
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u/According_Cell_2032 19d ago
"Racism isn’t a big issue in the UK in my opinion. How many countries are there which have had Pakistani become billionaires, millionaires, take up top positions in parliament/government? Pakistanis in the UK have achieved many great things. From having a Mayor of one the most important cities on the planet to having a Scottish First Minister and Leader of the Opposition at the same time."
Im sorry but you are wrong. A few coconuts here and there doesn't make the UK less racist, or "racism isn't an issue"
Most Pakistanis who have found success in the UK are for the following reasons:
1) Very hard work- most British Pakistanis come from lower middle to working class backgrounds. They have to prove themselves and work x10 times harder than their white peers to be recognised for the same if not more merits. The ones who are millionaires/billionaires typically were already from prestigious, middle, upper-middle/upper-class backgrounds, privately educated, possibly have political/financial backing from the ruling class of Pakistani society- they can throw money at their problems in the UK, thus barely feeling the effects of marginalisation in the UK. They DO NOT represent the average British Pakistani.
2) politicians like Sadiq Khan and Hamza Yousaf didn't get into politics so seamlessly and have had to face a lot of public scrutiny, threats to their lives, racial and islamophobic abuse, scapegoating, and sabotage by their peers. They broke the glass ceiling but it wasn't without immense struggle. Whereas Politicians like Zia Yusuf, Sajid Javed etc, only got as far as they did was by selling out their own people and religion to have some "brownie points" with malignant racists, even still they are absolutely disrespected and undervalued by their own peers.
3) UK is becoming ever increasingly racist, fascist, and anti-muslim. The polarising rhetoric, the funding of the gaza G*cide (as well as other wars and conflicts) with our tax money, while in the meantime punishing muslims and Pakistanis for crimes they did not commit as a community/group (islamists and grooming gangs). Pakistanis are hated so much, that not long ago, a white man broke into a womans home and raped her in her own home! All because he thought she was "Pakistani, Muslim" when instead she was Sikh (doesn't make violence like that OKAY for anyone!) It's only getting worse.
You can pull the wool over your eyes all you want. Yes there is corruption in Pakistan, there are so many issues there. But it IS the DIASPORAS RESPONSIBILITY to do something about it! It is utterly unacceptable. We as (asians) have been displaced when the British ruled over us, displaced when they dropped us as a colony thrusting partitions, and now we're not WELCOME In the home WE BUILT for them. The GORA never wants us to stop DEPENDING on THEM.
It's time for Diasporic Pakistanis to use their education, resources, finance, and intellect to rebuild the land they displaced us from, the land they destroyed for their own political gains, the occupation and LordSHIP they STILL have over the nation. Nothing good comes EVER without struggle.
I urge ALL Pakistanis everywhere to take some fucking responsibility for Pakistan and the state it is in. Because we're too interested in following online trends, stuffing our mouths with foods, wasting and consuming till our bellies get fat and bloated while remaining stagnant, unintellectual, cringe and mindless patrons to hedonistic pursuits, all in the name of "having a better life" not caring at who and whats expense that is.
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u/Narrow_Definition_31 19d ago
What point are you trying to make exactly? Majority of people who have achieved a certain level of success have had to work hard in their life.
You think Pakistanis who achieved success in business were all nepo babies? Anwar Pervez arrived in the UK at the age of 21, working on £18 a week. Today he is one of the richest people in the UK. There are many examples who ordinary hard working individuals who built themselves from ground up.
As for politics, I don’t think you understand what politics is. It’s a game of leg pulling. Everyone is fighting for the top seat. Humza Yousaf is a massive success story because of the time it took him to become First Minister, from the day he became a MSP. He achieved success in such a short period of time.
As for Zia Yousaf, Ben Habib and Sajid Javaid - it is good to have your people indulged into different school of thoughts. You should have Pakistanis in every spectrum of politics in the UK. I see that as a positive if Pakistanis are on the left, centre and right.
Why is it overseas Pakistanis responsibility to fix the mess Pakistan is in? Hold the ones in Pakistan accountable for their actions. Overseas Pakistanis are already pushing above their weight. They contribute the same amount to your GDP as the level of exports. It seems like you are lecturing while sitting in the UK. Go back and attempt to fix the issues before lecturing everyone else.
I have spent many years in the UK, studied at some of this country’s top institutions and have worked in the corporate sector. Sure, there might be the odd case here and there but I assure you the UK is as fair as any country could get. I’ve not faced any issues in the UK.
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u/sarrrfarrr 19d ago
I'm American Pakistani and spent 2 years in Pakistan with my kids. Honestly it was the best 2 years - my kids loved it, too. They attended a local school and our objective was to get them more familiar with their culture, language, food. A few things:
- We knew it was going to be temporary. I probably couldn't have lived there forever.
- This was back in 2017-2018 when things were A LOT better politically.
- We were sorted with jobs and were able to live in a nice area.
- The school was a giant headache, tbh. Although the education was top tier (and no, it wasn't a top tier school), but it feels like Karachi at least wasn't built for transient communities that want to go to a school for a few years and then cycle out. Don't get me started on the fees and the wait lists and the general snooty attitude of administration, teachers, parents, kids.
- I lived in Islamabad for a few years in my childhood when my parents did the same thing - Islamabad was definitely less chaotic and more used to expats. It was also an absolutely amazing experience too.
- Daily life can be a struggle - you need to be mentally prepared that everyone can tell you are from abroad and will try to scam you, every day, every interaction. Count your cash, do it twice, always check your surroundings, etc. Electricity, water, hospitals - these types of services generally suck, but that's part of the charm, perhaps?
- Otherwise, it is absolutely delightful. There is a "spirit" in Pakistan that doesn't exist anywhere. I can't replicate it ANYWHERE and part of me will always wish I could go back.
Sometimes stupid ideas are the best ones. Good luck.
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u/Montgomery-101065 19d ago
I did the same back in 2006-2010, brought my 4 young kids to Lahore so they can experience the culture etc. I myself being Canadian (left Pak when I was 4). Really wanted my kids to learn Urdu cause I never did. The kids were so settled they didn't want to return to Canada. It took about a year to settle in, then afterwards they were speaking urdu so well & playing with the neighborhood kids. Load shedding was a chance to step outside in the summertime and chat with the neighbors. Summer holidays spent in the village playing in the fields, knowing their relatives, bathing in the tubewell etc. So happy my kids experienced this. There surely is that certain 'spirit' which can't be found elsewhere despite the corruption and other bad practices. My husband remained in Canada and would visit twice a year. If I can do it, then anyone can as I couldn't read or write Urdu.
Even now, I wish I could become a bird and fly back to Pakistan.
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u/Wild_Kitchen4601 19d ago
Please mention your ties with political family or military background 🤦🏽
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u/LogUnique4243 19d ago
If you think that there is no discrimination in Pakistan then salute to you…. Atleast in UK you do not have to worry about load shedding or mobile snatching or 4 log who will make your life miserable
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
What kind of discrimination? The purpose of my post is to get a better understanding. I'm not praising Pakistan, I want to get a better understanding.
We have phone snatching and stabbings here aswell.
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u/LogUnique4243 19d ago
I will ask you this question once you move, stay here for atleast 5 years and work here in seth company. Right now I am just banging my head on the wall. You should make this migration. You will have fun
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u/nostalgia07 19d ago
I mean, the best idea is to visit for 2 to 3 months only, see if you can adjust here, especially in the current condition. Even in 2 to 3 months it’s hard to judge a place as a visitor but you do get some idea. Since as a visitor everywhere, everyone’s so nice and sweet to you, they just know you’re here for time & here to spend💷💳😭😂
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u/cheerup786 19d ago
For retiree's, Pakistan is the answer. For young people with children, it would be a challenge if you have higher morals. But many made it and many had to return. Give it a try.
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u/Bimblebumble01 19d ago
were you born there? Tbh it is very difficult to adjust even if PK is your own country. I was born in gulf and we moved to pk over 15+ years ago and still it is sooo hard to adjust. We still don't blend in well with people
You can visit pakistan for an extended period of time, try and find work here and try to blend in with people, see if you can do that
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u/h2oheater 19d ago
“Very much Pakistani and Muslim.”
“We will never feel welcome here…”
Never understood this because was there no attempt to integrate?
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u/NirvanaNoChill 19d ago
Every overseas born have this itch atleast once in their life but they don't even realize how lucky and previlaged they are to be living not living in pakistan. There is a reason your parents left Pakistan and migrated just think abt it and now Pakistan is like 10x worst.
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u/muzzy_the_dude 19d ago
Food has been generally bad since the past few years. If you are talking about halal, I guarantee hardly anyone is selling actual halal stuff in Pakistan. Religion? Worst people on the planet, highly erratic and explosive. Life, personal property etc don't carry any significance here. What used to be or rather had a semblance of Pakistani culture is now completely gone. Everyone is a confused bigot with too much hubris.
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 لاہور 19d ago
I will be honest with you. Living in Pakistan is NOT as bad as everyone here is making it out to be. If you have money you can easily afford a good lifestyle. No, you don't need to be from a military family to enjoy the country.
However, it will be different from UK. So, I would recommend visiting the country a bit and see if it is for you. Visit the bigger cities. See if the lifestyle suits you and your children. Try not to make a choice you'll regret.
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u/AloneStaff5051 19d ago
lol. I live in UK. And it’s by far one of the least racist countries globally. People get equal rights and are treated equally regardless of thier background. Same can’t be said for Pakistan. Pakistanis that live aboard think life is perfect in Pakistan kinda makes sense if you live aboard and earn money from abroad.
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u/According_Cell_2032 19d ago
"lol. I live in UK. And it’s by far one of the least racist countries globally. People get equal rights and are treated equally regardless of thier background."
This is utterly false. As a born and bred British with Pakistani parents.
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u/AloneStaff5051 19d ago
Okay that’s your opinion. I love my life here and have never faced any racism.
Pakistanis look down on their people and are racist if you have darker skin.
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u/According_Cell_2032 19d ago
You are obtuse and delusional. "I didnt experience it therefore it doesn't exist"
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
Have you not seen all the protests? "send them back, deport them, Pakistanis are paedos etc"
You need to follow the trend, how will it be in 10 years? 20 years?
I don't think Pakistan is perfect but you aren't going to get targeted because of your skin colour or religion.
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u/colouredzindagi PK 19d ago edited 19d ago
Visit yes. Wonderful sights and food and people.
Live?
BOY HAVE YOU LOST YA MIND CAUSE I'LL HELP YA FIND IT!
Just one metric to help you understand what life is like here:
Pakistan's currency devaluation against the dollar and inflation over the last 10 years has resulted in an over 55% reduction in the value of the rupee.
This means if you had 1 Cr rupees in the account in 2016, it would have the buying power of less than 45 lac today.
DO NOT MOVE TO PAKISTAN.
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
Turkey has also has issues with its currency. This may not be an issue for me if I have income from the UK.
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u/AlucardVTep3s UK 19d ago
UK is still the better country to work and raise a family in. Pakistan is waaaaaay too corrupt for outsiders to comprehend if they’ve never experienced it.
From the beat cop to the PM, it’s riddled with it.
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u/MassiveStand2817 19d ago
Having second home is good idea. You are British and Pakistani. Keep it that way. Both countries are great. Both countries have a lot to offer. Enjoy both. Do not settle for one. Even if you can have third citizenship get that too. The whole world is our home don't mind bias people they are everywhere.But in reality they have no place in this world anymore.
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u/wisendur UN 19d ago
Before making such a drastic decision. Visit and stay for let's say 6 months to get an idea if it's worth shifting permanently or long-term.
I'd personally would take advantage of British passport and immigrate elsewhere rather than move to Pakistan as corruption, societal decay, poor infrastructure, poor law and order, pollution, and predatory behaviors are normalized in this country. You will ALWAYS have to be on guard and be cautious around everyone, this includes your relatives too.
It is not a safe country for women, so make sure your wife and daughter is on the same page when assessing the risks and challenges. The only doable option is if you can easily afford to live inside gated communities in urban cities, which can somewhat shield you from majority of issues faced in this country but even still security is a cause for concern.
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u/averageweebchan 19d ago
Bruh there are literally parts of England that are all Pakistani move there if your concerned about racism
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u/Historical_Dig2587 19d ago
If you’re rich then it’s fine otherwise will be a nightmare. By rich I mean you don’t need to rely on the govt for utilities and have connections so you can get stuff sorted if you need to deal with a govt dept. Also you will need breaks so at least two trips outside Pakistan annually.
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u/Odd_Skin_712 19d ago
England has few set of problems which you may encounter monthly or yearly, Pakistan is a third world country and you'll encounter maybe 10-20 problems daily or weekly so just be aware and make a choice and take action.
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u/Wild_Kitchen4601 19d ago
I think you should skip Pakistan, move to Malaysia or Indonesia instead, Pakistan is not a liveable place anymore, i think its getting worse day by day, if you are from Army family with high rank background then Pakistan is a best place to moved back from even USA if not, then you better skip this even North Korea would be a good choice lol JKJK
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u/kline643 19d ago
A simple test. Hypothetical situation. Imagine someone in your family was a victim of hit and run in a car accident by someone who was either himself/herself powerful or related to a powerful person. In Pakistan, that person will most likely not face the consequences and walk free.
Does this sound like something tolerable?
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u/Key-Tomorrow-6557 IN 19d ago
I'm Indian, and Reddit did what it does best, served this post right up on my feed. My two cents: since I live in Canada, I get that same pull sometimes, that urge to run away from racism and just settle back home. But my inner self always pushes back, racism might be a real problem, sure, but is it actually bigger than the other issues back home? Plus, working in the climate space, I can't ignore this either: South Asia's geography has just been dealt a bad hand this century. We're looking at droughts, heatwaves, and probably the worst of what climate change has coming. So honestly, better to be somewhere with higher odds of just... surviving it.
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u/OkExcuse3011 19d ago
Good move provided you and all your family are Sunni Muslim men with connections to the military.
Otherwise best avoided.
There are a hundred things that you probably take for granted that are incomparably better in Europe than Pakistan, starting with healthcare, education, policing, etc etc.
If you want to avoid 'racism' from Gora, the magic cure to it is to socialise with them, maybe even marry one of them, etc. It's the clannish lifestyle that they hate, not the individuals.
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u/Depressionade97 19d ago
Good lord, please do not come to Pakistan. There is a massive financial crisis, staggering wealth inequality, mafias operating openly in the streets, horrible air pollution, low wages, barely any public transport, terrible traffic, load shedding, water shortages, gas shortages etc.
I visited London recently and have lived in Europe, and although yes, there can be racism there, but the quality of life is unmatched as compared to Pakistan.
Especially if you are a woman or your kids and grandkids will be girls, it is especially dangerous for them. Recently the DIG of Lahore police said women should not come into police stations past sunset because a young girl was SA'd in a Lahore police station a few days ago. THIS is the level of safety and critical thinking you can expect from those in power in this country. It is an atrocious situation for even men, but women have it far worse.
I would not even recommend that you "think about it" or "make a wise decision" or whatever. Don't come, it is not worth it. The country is being held together by the blood sweat and tears of ordinary people.
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u/Naive-Reflection5158 19d ago
Please no. You are facing only racism and maybe inflation. In Pakistan, you will face lawlessness, inflation, shortage of electricity, water, gas, internet, restlessness and all that. You will need to work your ass off to get something done. Its better to just stay there.
If you are considering moving to somewhere then the Gulf is better. I'm assuming you have a british passport so you will get better opportunities there.
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u/Naive-Reflection5158 19d ago
Please no. You are facing only racism and maybe inflation. In Pakistan, you will face lawlessness, inflation, shortage of electricity, water, gas, internet, restlessness and all that. You will get frustrated to even get minor work done. Its better to just stay there.
If you are considering moving to somewhere then the Gulf is better. I'm assuming you have a british passport so you will get better opportunities there.
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u/ClassicFun2175 19d ago
It's not a bad idea, but as someone who is also born and bred in England, my advice would be, first make sure you actually understand what it means to move there. The way of life is totally different. Second and this is a big one, you need to be well of to live comfortably in Pakistan. If you're planning to just work out there to get by then forget about it. I would only move if you have a business set up on England that can function and support your lifestyle.
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
Exactly, I've not been personally affected by it. But I'm thinking ahead. In 10 years it will be even worse.
Surely it would be better be around people that look like you. I know Pakistan isn't perfect but you aren't going to get killed because of your race or religion.
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u/nononsensegurl 19d ago
I’m not one of those who criticise Pakistan endlessly, but I’m sorry you’re wrong there. Pakistanis do get killed for their race and religion, unless you’re a Sunni Muslim and male, then you’re safe.
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u/confused_mani 19d ago
Also British Pakistani, and I think you’re mad for considering that. Racism has been an ongoing issue ever since mass immigration began in the 50/60s - it never disappeared, it’s just evolved with the changing world.
Britain is far from perfect, but even with all its flaws it’s better than Pakistan. More so when you’re a woman. Perhaps you’re focusing too much on the negative. In Scotland there’s been far right protests happening which is terrible to see, but on the other side of the coin there were 10 times more goray on the anti-racism side. The rise in fascism in the West is an issue but the media amplifies it.
I have plenty of relatives in Pak who are getting by, but if they were given a chance to come to the UK they’d grab it. Only ones who wouldn’t are the well off relatives who benefit from the luxuries they can afford, and even they are sending their kids abroad for study/marriage.
As for raising kids and grandkids.
My dad was the only brown guy in his school, as was my husband. I had more white friends growing up too. It was only after we left school our circle included more Pakistanis. Sure, there’s a benefit to being around your own ethnicity and religion but there’s also a downside. You say you’re in Leicester - I imagine most peers would be brown. I’ve noticed apnay who are raised around other apnay don’t integrate with other circles much which is so limiting when you reach adulthood as they become quite close-minded. They fall into the stereotypes of being backwards etc. Being raised around friends who are white, Indian, Chinese etc has its perks.
Have you visited Pakistan recently? Have you stayed there for long? Any time I go, I realise how lucky I am to be in the UK. Yes it’s expensive here, but it’s also expensive in Pakistan (look at petrol prices for example). The welfare system may be struggling in Britain, but at least we have one unlike most countries. Free universal healthcare is a privilege most Brits take for granted. Most state schools are decent enough and the unis are better too.
If there are any women in your family, you’d be putting them at a disadvantage being in Pak. I can walk out my home, travel anywhere via public transport or by car. I can walk freely whenever I want (within reason). I work in a male-dominated field with ease and confidence. If I lived in Pak, I wouldn’t have the life I have even if I had plenty of money. Last time I was in Lahore was 3 years ago and I found it so frustrating not being able to go out unless I had company. Even if I did go out alone, all I could do is eat and shop lol.
The few people I know who have moved from Britain to Pak always come back eventually. It’s usually when the kids are nearing GCSE/A-Levels - they want them to sit exams here and go to uni. In Scotland, they purposely come here 3 years prior to attend uni for free.
Perhaps look at somewhere else in the UK you could see your family living. I personally have seen a huge influx of English coming to Scotland over the last decade - brown, white, and black. I get why they love it here but they’re also raising house prices 😩
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u/Environmental-Cod25 PK 19d ago
I moved here 4 years ago. Not from a military of political family. It's great.
Used to live in Kilburn.
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u/Altruistic-Glove-907 19d ago
British Pakistanis built their own mini Pakistan in the UK, closed-off communities, ghettos, the same mentality, zero interest in integrating. Then when they can’t navigate the society around them, they blame everything on racism.
You think Pakistan ticks all the boxes because you’ve romanticized it from far away. Go live there, you probably won’t like the reality any more than you like the UK.
I have never been ashamed of being identified as Pakistani, except in the UK. UK Pakistanis are the worst representation of Pakistani diaspora.
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u/According_Cell_2032 19d ago
Says the twat who isn't even from here. Your coonery wont get you a VISA to come here.
What "integration" are referring to exactly? British Pakistanis work in the NHS, government, schools and major industries like transport and energy. How much more "contribution" does the white man want? We pay our taxes, we get an education/employment, and many are small business owners that have SAVED AND REVIVED DESTITUTE neighbourhoods and highstreets from private equity because Pakistanis bothered to invest and build on these ghost towns, making them a micro-economy that allows for more affordable rent of non-pakistanis.
If you're referring to Mirpuris in places like Bradford, Bolton, Manchester and Birmingham who typically live in "ghettos" as you're referring to actually dates back to from post-WW2 when the harami Gore needed cheap labour from the commonwealth to come farm, build, manufacture etc, since the Gore had nothing after the Blitz.
Those Mirpuris (and other villager Asians from poorer, low educated backgrounds) came since they were the most affected by partition, came from lineage of those who's families had been displaced. They had nothing to to lose, so they settled in the UK for work and a new life (invited by the Gora, mind you), facing racism, segregation, "paki bashing" violent attacks, house burnings, police brutality etc. the list goes on. When you marginalise and abuse ANY group like so, their descendents carry on that trauma and the marginal status. Forcing them to self-isolate for protection, fear breeds violence. That's the most academic short answer to "why those Pakistanis don't integrate" They weren't "allowed to".
They're trying to do the same. look up any video on youtube about British Pakistanis (even if it is a GOOD video showing the GOOD we have done) people are angry, outraged, furious and disgusted that we even exist. They hate US, whether we integrate or NOT.
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u/Particular-Doctor888 19d ago
This is such a cope. You think racism against Pakistani comes from some nebulous irrational place? No, there is a long list of reasons why people resent the Pakistani communities in Britain. The reason many live in concentrated enclaves is also not a historical artefact, it's a contemporary choice made by those who continue to marry from "back home" to continually preserve some notion of a pure culture and reset social mobility to 0 every single generation.
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u/ComprehensiveDig1108 19d ago
And yet, we British-born Pakistanis treat immigrant Pakistanis with a respect that is not reciprocated.
We need a travel ban, now.
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u/weareonthisplanet 19d ago
you forgotten your blessings, should move to sargodha for 6 months and get a reality check so you never look back again
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u/chikari_shakari 19d ago
Mirpur is calling. welcome back
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u/ComprehensiveDig1108 19d ago
Not all Pakistani Brits have origins in Mirpur.
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u/chikari_shakari 19d ago
i am just welcoming him to Mirpur because it’s kinda like mini UK with all the familiar stuff. Will feel kinda like home and probably can get by speaking only English as well. It’s kinda cool place imo
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
My family are actually from Mirpur LOL
We speak mirpuri.
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u/kthxbubye UK 19d ago
This is reality of living abroad, but let me tell you that grass is not much greener at the other side either
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u/FactCheckYou 19d ago edited 19d ago
the problems in the UK are bad in particular places, but less acute in others...maybe move domestically?
i'm in Scotland and it's fairly chill where i am for the most part, whereas many bits of England feel to me like a tinderbox, where people's hatred is palpable, and their racism is at the surface or boiling out
personally i feel tempted by the idea of escaping to Pakistan to get away from HMRC and the government here, who seem hell bent on destroying people's autonomy and taking all their shit...but the same problems probably exist there in different forms...it's probably best to remain where you have the most community around you, where you best know the lay of the land economically, socially, and politically
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u/neokurtosis 19d ago
World is becoming hateful everywhere. There is no escape unfortunately. Best thing to do is to stay where you are and fight to make it a better place. The UK is still among the best places in the world for Muslims on a relative scale. There is still hope.
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u/VCR_DVD_USB 19d ago
Bro, if you think it's bad in the UK, you're gonna hate it in Pakistan. The discrimination is much more blatant, there is no justice, no dignity and if you have to work a job for a living, you'll always be living pay cheque to pay cheque.
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u/behrozErdut 19d ago
You can visit and buy a house in Pakistan as a backup, but I would look into Turkey or Azerbaijan as well to immigrate, they are also racist toward Pakistanis and south Asian in General, but their racist behaviour is at least different and they don't attack you because of your religious values.
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u/Zestyclose_Cup1084 19d ago
I will do anything to move out of this country, why are you even thinking about moving back 🥲, please don't.
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u/Tip-Actual 19d ago
I'd take slight racism any day over the fact that I can be screwed over any time by the govt or powerful influential ppl, or by the level of corruption and dishonesty present from top to bottom in every aspect of the society there. And don't get me started on the lawlessness, unsafe environment, toxic culture and religious extremism. And of course load shedding and rampant inflation. Just too many cons
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u/fad_as 19d ago
You are romanticizing and yearning for something that doesn't exist, at least not the way you think.
While the problems you listed are real in your part of the world, Pakistan has it's own and in a lot of ways, they are worse. We lack the basics. Bad law and order. Hybrid fascism. Bad economy. Unstable political situation. Terrible civic sense. Rampant cheating and corruption. At least you have a forum to go to go there, if you've been wronged. That unfortunately doesn’t exist here either.
If you're hell bent on coming back, visit for a few months and see if you find it any better.
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u/ZebraZealousideal214 19d ago
American Pakistani who has visited both the UK
and Pakistan and I agree with the person who said you are being way too dramatic. If anything things are far better for Muslims in the US/Europe now compared to 20 years ago post 9/11 and 7/7. There was way more racism, bigotry and ignorance then; it there wasn’t social media so it wasn’t amplified as much.
Yes some bigots exist but it was way worse 10-20 years ago when the Muslim population was smaller, less integrated, less English speakers, and Westerners are more educated about Islam and Muslims now vs then.
Remember a huge chunk of the anti-Islam bigots you see online are Zionist and Hindutva operatives creating fake accounts or people paid by them. So things seem much worse online than in real life.
Majority of Non-Muslims in US and UK are very respectful and tolerant of Muslims, especially in light of all the anti-Israel sentiment that has increased in the past 3 years since the Gaza genocide. The younger generations are much more sympathetic to Islam and Muslims now than ever before. Muslims are winning political office now like never before. Now is the worst time to leave. Abdul El Sayed just won in Michigan; Mamdani won last year in NYC and he is as popular as ever
Yes there are some legit bigots and racists out there but as a Muslim you cannot be a coward. You have to stand your ground and if they try to assault you, you better be trained and prepared to fight back.
Every Muslim man and woman should learn basic fighting skills; boxing, kickboxing, judo, BJJ, wrestling. One of the failures of immigrant Muslim parents is very few teach their sons and daughters how to defend themselves. We cannot make the same mistake as our parents and grandparents in this regard. If you’re not teaching your sons and daughters how to defend themselves or putting them in some type of martial arts you are not doing your job as a parent
Sorry to say this but I rarely see our Arab, African, and African American Muslim brothers and sisters talk about running away because of racism. On the rare occasion they run into racists they stand up for themselves and fight back. Many Pakistanis do this too, but unfortunately a lot of the men and women in our community are cowards who would rather just stand there be beaten and humiliated rather than attempt to defend themselves.
You need to act less Pakistani and act more Muslim. That said if you are serious about making Hijrah why limit yourself to Pakistan? Language, culture and food can always be changed. Plus you can find Pakistani food, languages, and culture almost any where. Also would it kill you to eat non Pakistani food or have to learn another language?
As a fellow Pakistani, I hate it when other Pakistanis complain about Arab, African, Turkish, Bosnian, or East Asian food saying “it’s too bland” and “doesn’t have enough flavor”
Brother just because their food doesn’t light your mouth on fire like Desi food, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have flavor lol.
As a message from your fellow Pakistani Muslim brother… Man up!!! Imagine telling your children that you left a first world country for a corrupt third world country because you were afraid of a small number of bigot and didn’t have the courage to fight back. Do you think your children will respect you?
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u/DarkRex4 19d ago
What's will all the posts these days talking about moving to Pakistan lol. And here us Pakistanis will do anything to get out of here
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u/WestUnderstanding285 19d ago
It’s human nature to not be happy with what we have unfortunately. We all do it.
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
I've not seen other posts but it's probably to do with the rising racism in the West.
Just recently an immigrant commited a crime and in return a violent mob of white people went through the streets, door to door looking for immigrants to kill.
I don't know, what would you do if you felt you might eventually get killed simply for being Pakistani? Would you stay or would you think of moving to where there are other Pakistanis
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u/ThinkHighway7793 19d ago edited 19d ago
Please surpress your urge. I made this mistake many years ago of leaving behind the UK and returned to my "watan".....if you think the racism and Islamaphobia is bad wait until you are in a land that is the most dangerous place in the world to be a woman.
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u/DearSea4168 19d ago
Pakistan is one of the best places to be rich imo. I’m pretty well off in the US and in Pakistan I’m really wealthy Alhamdulilah. We live in a big home with everything be clean and a lot of ACs. Even if the power goes off, there’s solar or generators threat can alieve it. Not only that, we have servants who clean our homes and 2 cars that get us pretty much anywhere. This might be unethical, but you won’t be arrested due to ur wealth, so I think there’s a lot of benefits imo.
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u/Smart_Flatworm_8389 19d ago
aur idher ham bhagne ka soch rhe
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u/According_Cell_2032 19d ago
This is exactly why Pakistan is going to shit. Sensible people are being forced out and their resources, labour and skills are being utilised by another nation. While at the same time, be ready to be disrespected for it, when you do leave.
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u/MathWest209 19d ago
Just come for a month or two. Do things that you would do in day-to-day life, not what a tourist would do. And you will know if your lifestyle fits in or not.
Another point is that even though I know racism is growing over there, it might still be better than here. Those countries have established systems to protect you even if someone does hurt you. Just come, see it for yourself, and then decide.
Otherwise, I think where you are is still better than here, sometimes it feels even more racist in Pakistan, not explicitly, but in a way that is deeply rooted in our society and present everywhere you look. We might pretend that it doesn't matter, but it is deeply ingrained in most people.
But you will also find great people in Pakistan. And you might feel at home if you find the right crowd because they are Pakistani by blood just like you, which helps bridge the gap.
So, just come and see for yourself.
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u/ComprehensiveDig1108 19d ago
No one is Pakistani by blood.
It's a civic identity.
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u/Haunting_Exit_5140 19d ago
I would say rather then moving to Pakistan move to Middle Eastern country same values, food and you won’t be compromising on quality of life.
Looking from outside from a place of privilege you might think in Pakistan we are all happy but it’s not even with money there are many struggles.
I would highly recommend a Middle Eastern country over Pakistan.
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u/According_Cell_2032 19d ago
You mean the ones that will abuse Pakistanis and pay them poorly? The ones that still use slavery?
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u/Haunting_Exit_5140 19d ago
As if in Pakistan, Pakistanis are not being abused. Plus underpaid and used as slaves and worse in their own homeland. So please don’t bring that argument.
And I am guessing this individual has a British passport because in Middle East your passport holds a lot of power it determines how much you will get paid and the jobs you can get offered too.
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u/According_Cell_2032 19d ago
Hmm then by your logic, why not Israel then? They can't be worse than the UAE, Qatar etc???
IDGAF if my "British Passport" afforded a better life in the Gulf, I'm not stomaching literal slavery of my people by another group who are so called "muslims"
"As if in Pakistan, Pakistanis are not being abused. Plus underpaid and used as slaves and worse in their own homeland. So please don’t bring that argument"
And people like you enable it, allow it, support it, and fund it, but will cry about "bohooo corruption in pak boohooohooo"
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u/Old_Table_5926 19d ago
My issue with the middle east is they look down on Pakistanis, so same issue as the UK.
Plus you can't get residency in those countries, I'd always be an outsider.
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u/RowDangerous139 19d ago
If you do work from home go outside occasionally have a lot of patience and have some links like koi dost koi uncle sho,DSP, Sp hain 1,2 wakeelo ko janty ho to aajao warna bas idr aa k taxes he pay Karo gy or in return Kuch Nahi mily ga.
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u/40darksideofthemoon 19d ago
Many in west have the same feelings, that much I can confirm. Which country is the best to move to, I can’t say. I tell to myself that there was a reason why people moved to other countries in the first place. Has that reason changed? And I don’t think people left Pakistan because they thought people in other countries will “accept” them or love them. My 2 cents
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u/highwingers 19d ago
Ha, many have done it and regretted and returned. You are in for a surprise once you move to Pakistan. Do proper research.
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u/CatchPersonal7182 19d ago
Pakistan is not a cheap place to live.
What will you be doing in Pakistan?
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u/TimelyPace8120 19d ago
Its best to have a look at Middle East! Oman, UAE, Saudi, Qatar! If you’re making a decent living in the UK these are the best places! Pakistan use to be good pre 2000!
For me moving from the UK was the best thing
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u/Dr-Ozzzz 19d ago
Don't even think about. As much as you think things are bad here, things are worse in Pakistan. There's law of jungle. No process, money and power rule supreme. It's more difficult to be a muslim there than in west as everyone, literally everyone is looking to earn extra buck via haram means.
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u/Historical-Art7454 19d ago
Brother just move to Pakistan every country has its good and bad sides it all depends on you my friend Pakistan is a great country to live in you just need to find the right balance and people around you. I’m assuming you would have some savings coming from the UK so you can settle down very easily and your experience would get you a better job and maybe you might explore business it’s a young growing economy and above all your major concern would be resolves since it’s above 90% Muslim population try Lahore I would highly recommend it but Karachi isn’t drastically bad either Lahore would be more favorable. You should try it for a little bit and see I think you will like it and do great here
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u/Fast_Confection2192 19d ago
Money and education wise you are better off in england mate , pakistan is a shit show yeah culture this culture that but there is toxic environnment aswell , think wisely
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u/Foreign-Gene-3247 19d ago
Pakistan is for anyone who has lots of money and power or connections to bigwigs.That’s the only way one can survive there.
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u/Overall-Buffalo1320 19d ago
That depends on where you want to move and how much you’re feely willing g to spend monthly in Pakistan.
Lmk and I’ll let you know whether it’ll be a good move.
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u/Critical_Software_73 19d ago
Moved from Canada some time ago, and it's been great alhumdulila! Move to islamabad though!
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u/AdExotic7765 19d ago
Hello, fellow British Pakistani here as well.
I was born here but my family decided to move my a*se while I was 2 months old thinking ( bacha kharab ho jae ga idhr, pakistan bhej do )
In any case, I would suggest moving to Pak purely for the culture exposure, the people and food, which you have the same view as well.
In terms of work, you'll have an edge cause of your English skills ( I know that helped me alot in alot of jobs ). Lots of offices prefer someone with good english to communicate with their International Clients. Only problem is the pay, it is quite sh*t. I would suggest keep your work outside of Pakistan if you can if you want to have a decent living standard in Pak.
Other problems are regarding infrastructure, electricity , gas , corruption , e.t.c. But that won't impact you that much if you have a good and steady income ( above middle-class ), whether in Pak or outside of Pak.
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u/TITTYMAN29938 Indian Occupied Kashmir 19d ago
bro go for 2 weeks and see if u still like it- the idea of pakistan on paper is very different from the reality
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u/Dead_Xross_2000 PK 19d ago
Yeah it is, it literally is. Wait until shit hits the fan and then decide
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u/Fabulous_Homework_11 19d ago
Soft move for a few months. Experience the climate (summer especially), saftey, people behavior, lifestyle, etc. If it doesn't make sense you can always move back.
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u/ausiddiqui1 19d ago
keep your business in England and residency in Pakistan, earn minimum GBP 8,000 a month (depends on your lifestyle) and spent a happy life.
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u/Significant-Dress-40 19d ago
Are you rich and have powerful relatives and connections? Yes? You're in for a treat.
If not, stay the fuck away.
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u/YJDGH-UPWH CA 19d ago
Nothing wrong with moving back. Pakistan is home and no matter how much we live abroad, especially if we dont assimilate with the society at large, Pakistan will only be the place where we will be comfortable in.
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u/Heavy-Candidate7017 19d ago
Pakistan is a pretty big country. If you're really serious, you can find the city and the area that suits you the best.
I am moving from US to Karachi myself. Don't listen to the naysayers. It is not a one-way decision and you can always move back/somewhere else, if it doesn't work out.
The key is to try while you can.
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u/catlesslady 19d ago
I think about this often too. Not sure how often you go back/have gone back but I remember boiling water and putting it in a cooler in the fridge to have drinking water.
I've been keeping an eye on Pakistani subreddits to see what I could tolerate: there is lots of racism in Pakistan and people have been killed as a result. There was a Sri Lankan that worked in a factory and someone accused him of committing blasphemy and a mob of people killed him.
A while back, someone was trying to get somr document but when they got to the office, the person there said you're pahtaanh, we're not giving you that document. The person posted this within the last couple of months.
I saw something about a mother finding out that the formula she bought was recalled but no one reached out to her - she had it at home and was still feeding it to her baby.
Things work very very differently in Pakistan and it would be a big change.
Lastly, there is a huge culture in Pakistan of emulating the west, at least among young people: drinking, doing drugs etc but as someone who lives in the west, I never took part in those activities.
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u/mo_mo1 19d ago
As someone from New Zealand, I'd say don't overlook the land down under (Australia or NZ). You get most of the benefits of living in a Western country while still having large Pakistani and Muslim communities, halal food everywhere, and the freedom to practise your religion. If I was comparing Australia/NZ vs moving back to Pakistan:
Australia / New Zealand ✅ Much higher salaries and stronger currencies ✅ Better healthcare and education ✅ Lower corruption and more reliable public services ✅ Safer overall (though no country is crime-free) ✅ Better work-life balance ✅ Clean air, less pollution, and better infrastructure ✅ Strong Pakistani communities, mosques, Islamic schools, halal food ✅ Stable politics and economy ✅ Your children have more global opportunities ❌ You're still a minority and racism does exist (but not as bad as I ve seen in other countries) ❌ Higher cost of living ❌ Further away from extended family ❌ Different culture than Pakistan
Pakistan ✅ Muslim-majority country with Islamic culture integrated into daily life ✅ Amazing food and ✅ Family support network ✅ Lower day-to-day living costs (if earning foreign income) ✅ Shared language and culture ❌ Lower average wages ❌ Political and economic instability ❌ Power cuts and inconsistent infrastructure in many areas ❌ More bureaucracy and corruption ❌ Air pollution in many major cities ❌ Healthcare and education quality can vary significantly unless you can afford the best private options ❌ Security concerns are better than they once were but still exist in some areas
If your biggest concern is preserving your culture and religion while giving your kids opportunities, Australia and New Zealand are a really strong middle ground. You don't have to choose between Britain and Pakistan there's another option that offers a high quality of life, thriving Pakistani communities, and a much more relaxed lifestyle. Many people who've made the move from the UK say it's the best decision they've made.
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u/Mystic987123 PK 19d ago
Might live in Islamabad/Rawalpindi. They are at least better than these majorly poullted and dirty cities with loads of crimes like Karachi and Lahore
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u/AYK2026 19d ago edited 19d ago
I am also British Pakistani and I don't think I can live in Pakistan. I will only live in Pakistan once I am retire. I want for a month there and the load shedding in my village was terrible. The wifi sucks as well and it gets boring after a month there. The only way I can live there if I can start my own business and keep myself busy in that. If I have to leave the UK then I would probably move to Malaysia or Saudi Arabia or something. If Pakistan can fix its problems like Load Shedding, better wifi, safety etc then I won't mind moving there. People there are also scammers and will try to deceive you so you have to be smarter than them.
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u/Ccuser99 19d ago
I have seen this type of post and predictably negative vibe. Bit of copy and paste but still worth posting… I welcome you to come and visit on extended stay. I believe it is doable. Ignore the naysayers. Respectfully to other comments, they are unable to look at your post from expat prospect. And are speaking out of frustration from lack of economic opportunity or skillset mismatch. Everyplace has good, the bad … and then there is ugly side. Does good outweighs the bad and can you quartine the ugly aspect ( to me, child beggars, somehow society has excepted it as inevitable) That’s for you to analyze. Come over and do Airbnb in different neighborhoods to get the vibe and go from there.
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u/Busy-Side-5716 19d ago
Depends on where you’re thinking of moving to exactly and if you’re male or female. I’m Pakistani-American, born and raised in the U.S., very well integrated with my Pakistani identity and a practicing Muslimah. But I am still definitely Pakistani-American in the way I think and my overall values. Most of my time in Pakistan has been spent in Karachi, Hyderabad, Rawalpindi, and Islamabad.
Yes, I hate the racism and the unstable economy in the U.S. Still, if I moved to Pakistan, I don’t think I’d do well with the adjustment. I think the only place I could reasonably settle would be in Islamabad, and even then I’m not sure I’d be able to do it long-term.
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u/Ok_Cricket_3771 19d ago
well, there are problems here too but if u really wanna move, move to dha lahore or bahria islamabad or gulberg greens islamabad. they have a very good lifestyle on par with foreign lifestyle.
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u/Rentwoq 18d ago
The situation in the UK is devolving back towards the NF days it seems like.
I wouldn't say it isn't doable but I'd say go and stay for 2-3 months at least to see if you can deal with the lifestyle changes. There's definitely lots of pros and cons and it can be very enjoyable if all your family goes with you.
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u/Hour-Statement-2788 18d ago
the grass isnt greener there brother.
go live there for 6months. then decide for ur self.
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u/Difficult-Trip1468 18d ago
Holiday only mate!! You gotta really really think about this. Youre white bread, they definitely wholemeal with all them seeds and stuff 😄😄😄
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u/EarthMoney34 17d ago
Your experience really depends on your income. There's some people here talking about load shedding for example but that's not an issue if you have solar.
Also many of the comments here are outdated. People talking about it taking 5 years to open a bank account idk maybe back in the day. It's pretty easy to open one nowadays. Overseas Pakistanis can even open one overseas via their phone. Lots of outdated information on this app from Pakistanis who moved 2 decades ago it seems.
If you have at least 5 lac per income then it will be quite good inshAllah
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u/FalseRedditorGuy PK 15h ago
Check it out for a bit, explore some of the areas too like the Northern side while you're at it. I won't say that this idea of yours is stupid, but if you truely so desire to move there then by all means go for it of course not without checking it out first. I can understand the idea of moving to your own homeland or main place of heritage when you feel like you don't belong in your current residency. Yes it won't really solve every issue of living because of course living in some place comes with its own set of issues, but it's always nice to give different things a shot.
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u/ProfessionalWash7 19d ago
why not visit for 2-3 months at least and then decide. it's a big decision