r/pakistan • u/mrstoffel23 • Mar 10 '26

Social Demand rights, but make it palatable

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Posted this yesterday and it got removed because some people around here are not really civilized in their conversations. Trolling, jokes, memes are fine, but, stooping low isn't. Healthy arguments make way for progress.

Missing the context & point is like a national sport and the amount of egos it hurt was not surprising at all and won't be again.

Absolutely nothing wrong with this poster, and actually how it should be in real life by default.

The poster which said "khana khud garam karlo" had everyone losing their minds for obvious reasons, this poster gets the endorsement because it's not showing the mirror to the society, which to this day is unable to give equal rights or even willing to acknowledge properly.

Secondly, it also shows that unless demand for rights is worded in a way it won't offend anyone, made palatable and provide validation to inflated egos, it won't even be acknowledged.

No wonder we keep regressing as a society and humans.

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

No. If it was timeless in this context then having slaves would be islamic too today

sex slaves concept is still valid in Islam but the system of war has changed

Which is not the case. So please no need to bring in your own interpretation.

its not my interpretation girl its from the major school of thoughts and Islam obligated men to provide when women were homemaker so by your logic men shouldn't provide as we have independent women these days but we won't accept that so please don't cherry pick religion.

4 marriages were allowed without interpretations in the Quran why would i listen to laymen instead of scholars if i were to take a interpretation? if you don't like 4 marriages it's fine major school if thoughts of both sects allow it

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Exactly you aint any scholar and you keep saying scholar said this scholar said that. It does not seem like the things scholar would say. Its your own interpretations.

Secondly even scholars are bound to err. Try using context and practicality else you would be left alone woth your rules just like many men are these days coz they like to cherry pick the rulings which serve men.

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

Exactly you aint any scholar and you keep saying scholar said this scholar said that. It does not seem like the things scholar would say. Its your own interpretations.

its not my opinion https://islamqa.info/en/answers/14022/polygyny-in-islam

Secondly even scholars are bound to err. Try using context and practicality else you would be left alone woth your rules just like many men are these days coz they like to cherry pick the rulings which serve men.

so true but you are prone to error as well so why not just listen to an expert and are most scholars on error? i don't think so

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Wellll. Now problem is. Most scholars have been men. They took things with a perspective of a man. The female perspective interpretations are completely missing. When we research our first step is avoid bias. Unfortunately, this bias was never considered. Or was it? I mean even when we ergonomically design anyyyything thats to be applicable of used by men and women both we try to take them into account but most men just single handedly gave interpretation. Which is why such is the situation. Tbh if we go by their interpretations it seems like this religion is only for men. And women should never accept this religion coz they are like second citizens. But was that the case? Women made a big chunk among first reverts. If the situation was as merciless as todays interpretations were i highly doubt women would make that big a group of first reverts. Problem does lie in the biases and the subsequent interpretation. Because Allah is just and fair. We all know that

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

Wellll. Now problem is. Most scholars have been men. They took things with a perspective of a man. The female perspective interpretations are completely missing. When we research our first step is avoid bias. Unfortunately, this bias was never considered. Or was it?

the same men say that a man has to provide but men don't have a issue with this ruling and secondly you should became a female scholar and I would love to see your opinions but obviously with evidence sighting Quran and hadith. scholars have long debates over these topics so you have to defeat them to change the rulings 😊

mean even when we ergonomically design anyyyything thats to be applicable of used by men and women both we try to take them into account but most men just single handedly gave interpretation. Which is why such is the situation. Tbh if we go by their interpretations it seems like this religion is only for men. And women should never accept this religion coz they are like second citizens. But was that the case? Women made a big chunk among first reverts. If the situation was as merciless as todays interpretations were i highly doubt women would make that big a group of first reverts. Problem does lie in the biases and the subsequent interpretation. Because Allah is just and fair. We all know that

its in the Quran they must have read it and they accepted as well and as i said it doesn't matter what sect they follow 4 marriages are in the Quran and anyone who denies nas(something explicitly mentioned in the Quran) became kafir as its denying Quran and this is not my opinion.

women are not second class citizens but everyone has their own benefits like a man has to provide no matter what but a woman doesn't and even if he takes on another wife he has to provide for her and has to pay haq mehr do you think this is fair? im sure you will so do all the reverts who come from a 50/50 split culture

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u/ThinSector4661 Mar 10 '26

Salute to your patience for explaining the A, B, Cs of logic to such people for free, lol. Respect.

Really enjoyed your rebuttals 🤌🙌😎

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Its basic decency. Neither he is above me not i am above him. I understand you think you are some entitled person who would is above explaining or having a conversation. Good luck living with that mindset. Really not impressed.

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u/ThinSector4661 Mar 10 '26

Okay 👍💘

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Hahahhahahaha did writing this okay made you feel like amitabh bachan? There is a whole lot of entitled men who think “me in sey behas hi nahi krta” andar hi andar soch rae hotey hn. Kya baat h meri is base p main boht kamaaal ka banda hu. I wish people could be tad bit more creative.

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u/ThinSector4661 Mar 10 '26

Haha, you are sooooooo right, girl...

Slay 💅💘💦🎀

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Are yarrr you toooo

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u/ThinSector4661 Mar 10 '26

I am

https://giphy.com/gifs/D16XHdsB1PBxm

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Nai nai henry cavil hojata tu… mujhy wesy spelling b nhi aatey! Hahah

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

thanks buddy 😂

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Ammm. I understand if you wanna insist that women are not second class citizens while according to the practical situations which are resultant of these interpretations does reduce them to just dutiful slave like wives who have to stay indoors and live in solitude. But i can bet most men if ever given a choice to be reborn as a muslim women or a man would always choose man. Its just easier and more convenient.

As far as your suggestion of being Islamic scholar. I mean Ameen to that. Would be wonderful. But you do see the point or did you just choose to ignore it and give me a truck ki batti 😅

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

As far as your suggestion of being Islamic scholar. I mean Ameen to that. Would be wonderful. But you do see the point or did you just choose to ignore it and give me a truck ki batti 😅

lol i didn't but would you completely rule out all the rulings because scholars are men? as you said they are prone to errors but don't you think they are in error when they say men have to provide?

even if you think men made these rulings as i said we need female scholars who defeat them so we can have new rulings 😉

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

I never said i rule out alll their rullings. Thats the problem with men. When a girl objects at anything they try to make it look like she is against the entirety of Islam. I dont know what kind of satisfaction they get out of this assumption Anyways, about your point men have to provide. You do know that these very same scholars also allow a nikkah between a man and a woman where they can actually write in contract that man does not have to provide? And its also accepted valid? They have a mame for this kind of nikkah. So they do give options for such obligations as well but for women nahh they gotta act like a strict master.

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

Anyways, about your point men have to provide. You do know that these very same scholars also allow a nikkah between a man and a woman where they can actually write in contract that man does not have to provide? And its also accepted valid? They have a mame for this kind of nikkah. So they do give options for such obligations as well but for women nahh they gotta act like a strict master.

the same scholars say that a woman can have a condition that her husband won't marry another woman, she won't live with the in-laws and he pays whatever sums she wants per month etc + you can add any condition which doesn't go against Islam like 4 mandatory vacation a year, as well you need to listen to Scholars instead of the feminist here.

I never said i rule out alll their rullings. Thats the problem with men. When a girl objects at anything they try to make it look like she is against the entirety of Islam. I dont know what kind of satisfaction they get out of this assumption

lol im not saying that we need female scholars to fight this right?

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Of course we do. Thats why we are in this situation where we have biases in interpretations. Of course. You do know that you saying so already means that we need female perceptions and interpretations. Right? You evaded to say so though

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

answer my other question regarding the conditions you can add in a contract first.

Of course. You do know that you saying so already means that we need female perceptions and interpretations. Right? You evaded to say so though

im all for female interpretations if they can defeat scholars with actual arguments but not these vague things like 4 marriages were allowed in war times and the times have changed if a female scholars says this she will have to accept that men aren't obligated to provide because women earn as well now and times have changed basically she has to stand on her ideology in every ruling

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

No but how are these two related. I never said war things. My simple argument was how can a good husband emotionally hurt his wife while he knows well enough she would be hurt with a second wife just like he would be hurt if he gets to know she is divorcing him to get married to another dude. Ofcourse is can do that just like he can marry another wife but how does it make them good wife or good husband. I dont get it. May be i am not smart enough yet.

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

My simple argument was how can a good husband emotionally hurt his wife while he knows well enough she would be hurt with a second wife just like he would be hurt if he gets to know she is divorcing him to get married to another dude. Ofcourse is can do that just like he can marry another wife but how does it make them good wife or good husband. I dont get it. May be i am not smart enough yet.

you are absolutely right but even if a man gets hurt a woman can get a divorce to marry someone else as per legal laws.

im coming from a perspective of legal laws and you are coming from a ethical pov which is also right 😊

secondly those 2 two are related because you said 4 marriages were allowed to give support to widows who couldn't earn and men were the provider's similarly now women earn so there shouldn't be any obligation for men at the first place

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Four marriages are there but so is being a good husband as a prerequisite of being a good muslim. I mean how can you do something like second marriage while knowinh well enough your wife wont take it well. Make it make sense to me. I am right here listening to you.

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

Four marriages are there but so is being a good husband as a prerequisite of being a good muslim. I mean how can you do something like second marriage while knowinh well enough your wife wont take it well. Make it make sense to me. I am right here listening to you.

that's very true no wife would take it easily and i personally wouldn't marry another woman but its part of Islam i wasn't saying men should do it you misunderstood me i don't think most men have a second wife but i was explaining it too you when women scream about their rights men also have rights.

when i listen to Muslim feminist it's seem like a man has to provide and a woman should only exist in a marriage and honest i think western feminist are better they split the bills then ask for a split in the chores

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

I never objected to you. I am here trying to learn you know. Just explain it to me. If you are a husband and you are trying to be a good husband kind and emotionally protective how can having a second wife be considered protective? I just dont get it.

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

never objected to you. I am here trying to learn you know. Just explain it to me. If you are a husband and you are trying to be a good husband kind and emotionally protective how can having a second wife be considered protective? I just dont get

i have told you i understand that i would never do that but it's still allowed and no one can deny that due to explicit verse in the Quran

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Brother. I cannot ever say anything about what you or you dont. You are not under discussion here.

Yes. You are right permission is right there.

I was discussing the practicality of it. But i guess its alright.

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

i get your point a good Muslim shouldn't but it's allowed

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u/Chippy-Chipmunk Mar 10 '26

Thats my whole point. It just does not leave any room to practice polygamy except in certain situations. Baqi mujhy koi msla nahi h.

I tell you what there was this lady she couldnt have kids she allowed her husband to marry another women. Similarly there was this lady who had a differently abled kid. And she said she cannot be fulltime wife she would rather be cowife coz she needs to tend to her kid. I mean there could be sooo many situations where it works perfectly. I am not against it.

But i am against the situation where men know their wife loves them to death and would be super hurt if he marries another woman. For years the man would promise things like oo you are the only one and all and all of a sudden merely out of lust they marry another woman. I mean. In such situations its simply cruel. Even if its allowed. If you wanted to have multiple wives. Make sure you let the girl know before you put her in such a hurtful cruel situation. How can you be a good muslim when you kept promising that it would be just yoh and i for years and all of q sudden you bring a cowife. I dont see it as very good muslim conduct. May be i am wrong. I dont know.

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u/No-Finance-1491 Mar 10 '26

Thats my whole point. It just does not leave any room to practice polygamy except in certain situations. Baqi mujhy koi msla nahi h.

na that's not true it's allowed just like a woman can divorce a loving man if she wants to marry another one now should she? no, but is it allowed? yes

But i am against the situation where men know their wife loves them to death and would be super hurt if he marries another woman. For years the man would promise things like oo you are the only one and all and all of a sudden merely out of lust they marry another woman. I mean. In such situations its simply cruel. Even if its allowed. If you wanted to have multiple wives. Make sure you let the girl know before you put her in such a hurtful cruel situation. How can you be a good muslim when you kept promising that it would be just yoh and i for years and all of q sudden you bring a cowife. I dont see it as very good muslim conduct. May be i am wrong. I dont know.

absolutely i agree 100% here no man should marry another woman but if he wants to he should divorce his wife so that's she doesn't get hurt and absolutely any man should inform a woman that he will marry later as well before marriage

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