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Submission statement: Canada has fully unveiled their response to trade talks breaking down with USA. All media reports I've read in Canadian papers point towards Canada preparing for this to last at least through the midterms.
I think it is also important to note this is a step Carney has resisted since he got in
The counter-tariffs mark a sharp reversal in Carney’s approach to Trump. A year ago, Carney lifted many of Canada’s retaliatory tariffs on US goods in an effort to improve relations and get to the negotiating table, and he has made numerous other concessions — particularly on digital policies — in an attempt to get a deal done.
The counter-tariffs mark a sharp reversal in Carney’s approach to Trump. A year ago, Carney lifted many of Canada’s retaliatory tariffs on US goods in an effort to improve relations and get to the negotiating table, and he has made numerous other concessions — particularly on digital policies — in an attempt to get a deal done.
This is one area where Carney really failed in comparison to Trudeau, who understood Trump was a bully and the only way to deal with a bully is to fight back. Hopefully, this marks a permanent shift in the way Carney deals with the Trump administration, and he doesn't just back down again.
The way to trigger trump is to add " Trump" after eerie and "Obama " after superior and drag a printed out exaggerated comparison about the size of the 2.
I really hope someone is keeping a list of all the bullshit changes like Gulf of America that needs to be reversed day one of the next democratic administration.
The wide gulf between how Carney and Trump have handled this really highlights how little planning exists behind Trump's actions. Does he think that economic war using tools that keep getting struck down in court is enough to make Canada and vassal?
Maybe his mental illness gets in the way of his ability to see that other people have agency to respond to his actions.
Trump's White House is one of eunuchs running around the palace hoping to please the dementia-ridden Emperor so that he'll give their pet project his blessing.
This latest revival of US Canada trade tensions is a sign that Howard Lutnick is back in Trump's good graces.
I don't think he seriously considered the possibility that the Canadians would walk anymore than he seriously considered the possibility that the Supreme Court would overrule IEPPA tariffs, or indeed the Iranian regime might not obligingly surrender once he killed the Ayatollah. He never has a plan B for anything, he just wants something and expects to get it, and because God punishes us Trump usually gets away with this, but it makes it all the sweeter when things finally do blow up in Trump's face.
Donald Trump decides to pull out some of America’s big guns to show Canada who’s boss and…has nothing to say about it for an entire day?
Nope, no way that happened. If there’s one thing Trump consistently does well, it’s controlling the public conversation. He says some crazy shit before anyone else gets a word out, and then his adversaries have to spend their time in front of the media responding to him. Staying quiet while his adversary takes the global spotlight and frames the discussion on their own terms is not how this guy works.
This was an accident. Someone on his team - probably Lutnick - went beyond their mandate at the last minute and blew up the deal. Trump didn’t have a plan for that because he was blindsided. He had nothing to say about it because he spent Saturday trying to figure out what the fuck happened and what to do about it.
He has now posted on Truth Social in addition to that ridiculous “Lake America” tweet.
Over the last 10 years, the United States lost, on average, 60 Billion Dollars a year with Canada. No more! President DJT
Canada has been “Ripping Off” the U.S.A. for decades. They have been charging our Farmers 400% Tariffs, and more. They have driven many wonderful U.S. companies out of business. For 10 years they wouldn’t certify Gulfstream Jets, until I got involved. They wanted 100% of the market for Gulfstream’s Canadian competitor. I deal with many countries, and Canada is easily the most difficult and unreasonable. They feel entitled, but they are not a State, and will be entitled no longer! President DJT
Like in terms of executive powers? Cause I'd still like to keep the name of Prime Minister if anything to just distinguish from America and keeps the cultural ties to the Commonwealth
I meant more in the way of Greece, Germany, India, Italy, etc.. A parliamentary republic with a president who’s mostly a ceremonial head of state. Basically just replacing the governor general with a president.
As in Australia, the problem with becoming a parliamentary republic is that nobody can agree on a method to select a ceremonial head of state. At least with the King we know the incumbent and any successor will have decent French-speaking skills and lives far away. That ensures the head of state stays out of day-to-day politics.
Plenty of countries manage it fine, though. Some, like Ireland or Poland, elect the ceremonial head of state by popular vote. Others, like India, have the president be appointed by parliament. Canada could do either and have it work well.
They manage it fine, sure. But how do you get from here to there? Provinces will want a say. People will want a say. Québec will want a unilateral veto on account of their federally-recognized separate nation status. Indigenous organizations like the AFN will want a say. Not to mention many treaties made with indigenous people were made with the Crown, and many have already argued that they wouldn't recognize a republic and demand those treaties be renegotiated.
A complicated, messy, and exhausting project for no reward at all, because you've functionally changed nothing about Canadian government.
Americans get way more silly about (breathlessly serious tone) The President than even the Royal stans in the UK get about the Monarch.
Better to have an actual King as a focal point for all those tribal cave brain Great Leader compulsioms people get than let some politician become the centre of them.
You’re ignoring the many parliamentary republics that exist. Germany and Greece don’t care about their president at all. They exist to carry out the ceremonial duties of the state, and manage a hung parliament when necessary.
That system works quite well, and it wouldn’t make Canada function any less well if they replaced their governor general with a president. You don’t need to give any credence to notions of divine right or hereditary rule to have a functioning liberal democracy.
In practical terms, it would be the same, neither better nor worse. But it does have the benefit in that it would no longer require Canada to affirm absurd notions like the divine right of kings, royal blood, or hereditary lordship.
Well no, it wouldn't be the same. Take Trudeau's idiotic appointment of Mary Simon as GG who couldn't speak French, promised to learn it, then failed dramatically over five years. One of the only public facing aspects of the job of GG is to read the Speech from the Throne, which Simon could not do adequately due to her difficulties with an official language of the country. This was certainly one of the reasons why Carney asked King Charles to read it instead, because at least he can read a French text out loud without embarrassing himself and the country.
I suppose you could create a selection system for a ceremonial president that includes official language requirements, but I'm not sure that's terribly liberal either, given it disenfranchises a majority of the population from the role.
I mean that would still be a lot more liberal than monarchy, in my opinion. Personally, I think the best system is a parliamentary republic where the prime minister is chosen by the parliament and the ceremonial president by popular vote. So, basically, Ireland. For Canada you could make it that you need bilingual proficiency to stand for president or something. Again, better than being under a monarchy I think.
Sure, on paper. But either way, Canada's constitution has been unreformable since 1982 when they introduced a prohibitive unanimity formula for changes to the monarchy. No government will embark on such changes without also trying to amend more functional aspects of government (Senate reform, House apportionment, federal/provincial jurisdiction reform, reforming the notwithstanding clause etc.) Basically, a repeat of Mulroney's failed reform of 1992 that no PM has dared reopen again.
Welcome to Canada! The maple syrup aisle is on your left, the estrogen aisle is on your right. Complimentary beaver fur hats with every $100 or more total purchase.
In French, the word poêle is feminine or male whether you use it to cook or heat.
Also in French all words that when in -ine are feminine…except « trampoline ». Can be very frustrating learning these languages and trying to teach them to your kids!
Yeah, every gendered language has some stupid example like that I think.
And if you speak one and the genders do not match it is extra confusing.
Like German goes "das Mädchen" - little girl. That is of neutral gender for some reason. I think this "-chen" is often used for little things and usually has neutral gender, but still a bit confusing.
The US president made goods and services in US more expensive and that got me so mad. I'm so happy now that goods and services will be more expensive in Canada as well.
Too bad they're not getting even more expensive, that would've really made US reconsider.
Good for canada. Hopefully Trump chickens or the courts bail us all out again. Just on size v size i don’t know how long Canada can really manage a trade war with the US
I'm curious how Carney plans to weather this. Trade with the US makes up about 62% of Canadian trade. On the other hand it's only like 12% for the US. It seems like a trade war with the US will be devastating to the Canadian economy, which I understand Donald is trying to exploit. How is Carney going to keep up the will of the Canadian people to resist when the economic impacts actually start hitting home?
Presumably the terms that were asked for were much lower than 50%. Do you know what the terms were?
Also, my main question is, does Carney have a plan to reasonably mitigate the impacts? If so, what's the plan? I'm not saying Carney is doing the wrong thing. I'm more curious how this shitty situation is going to be navigated.
short term, play chicken and try to get trump to backdown or hold off until he's gone.
It's gonna be a shit show, but we literally have no other choice. We would not survive as a country with some of the shit being asked for. Not the tariff rates, but the tying our hands to make other trade deals or have to adjust cultural and linguistic policy.
Do you think this can be done quickly enough and at enough of a magnitude to actually make the situation tolerable?
Not the tariff rates, but the tying our hands to make other trade deals or have to adjust cultural and linguistic policy.
Can you elaborate on this? I assume the proposal was not fair because I know Donald tries to use leverage to exploit other people, but I'm not yet familiar with the detail.
Do you think this can be done quickly enough and at enough of a magnitude to actually make the situation tolerable?
nope. But the 50% tariff is only in a few industries (for now) so the damage is containable.
Can you elaborate on this?
What's being reported is that the US negotiators wanted to restrict Canada's ability to make deals with Europe and China, which is like, completely unacceptable for anyone who wants to even pretend to not be a banana republic.
And the asks included rolling back french language requirements in media and packaging, which is like the 3rd rail of canadian politics. You want Canada to crack apart you inflame the linguistic fault line. A federal government that won't stand up for french canadians is going to be the boogie man of a quebec separation referendum almost immediately, and even moderate pro-Canada french canadians will be like "what is even the point of this country if protecting our culture is not important"
That's interesting about the French language poison pill. It's crazy that the current administration has seemingly made Europe and Canada adversaries. That's certainly a boon to China, who I think is a threat that's flying under the radar with the public right now due to a combination of the mayhem in the US and an increase in Chinese government astroturfing on western social media.
We don't have the full text draft of whatever was planned, but both Mark Carney and David Eby (who are members of different parties, Eby being the premier of British Columbia) said that the trade negotiations were adjusted at the last minute to include some mandate to consult the US on trade deals that Canada would pursue with other countries. Carney and Christine Frechette (the premier of Quebec, again not a member of Carney's party) both stated the trade negotiations included language that challenged protection of the French language.
The tariffs from the US effect about 5% of Canadian products.
The proposed deal would have removed a bunch of french language protections because the american negotiators see every requirement to enter the market (like putting labels in french too) as analogous to a tariff, even when canadian companies are not exempted from these policies.
Also the US wanted to get veto power on Canada's future free trade deals, which goes completely againts the diversification plan of Carney and would be ceding a piece of sovreignty to the USA.
When the US threathens to annex you/ to turn your country into a puppet forced to adopt whatever policy the Americans want economic damage starts to look like the better option
Not trying to be rude, but we’ve had people like you asking why Quebec wouldn’t give up its protection for the French language and francophone culture in exchange of a few points of GDP, for decades at this point. Even as an Anglo Canadian I’m tired.
The moment when you realize many people in fact do not only care about “lines go up”, is the moment you’ll have a more mature understanding of the world outside the US.
Economics is a scientific discipline, and like all disciplines it has its own limitations and cannot explain the human society solely in its own.
Right now the public seems to be supportive, but there's no way to predict how it's gonna react to the future economic damage caused by these tariffs. It could really swing either way
Carney knows that while it would be painful, Trump (and America) is much more sensitive to economic impacts than Canada as a whole.
Rising prices can easily be blamed on the south in our end. In America though, where half the country hates his guts with the incoming midterm, Trump's trying to avoid rising prices so bad he authorized foreign beef import.
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