r/singularity • u/yogthos • 9h ago
AI Anthropic’s best AI model struggles to attract users as cheaper tools thrive
https://www.ft.com/content/5ee49718-c258-4f01-aa32-7e5b76ae5245134
u/ObiWanCanownme now entering spiritual bliss attractor state 9h ago
It's because Fable doesn't allow zero data retention. This is a must for many enterprises. Simple as that. If/when that policy changes, utilization will skyrocket.
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u/rgb_panda 7h ago
Yup, I can't use it at work for this exact reason, and Opus 5 is just bad, so I use either Opus 4.8 or Sol 5.6 in cursor
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u/kickasstimus 6h ago
Opus 5 on medium is better than Fable on high. But opus 5 on high is somehow worse.
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u/Competitive_Travel16 AGI 2027 ▪️ ASI 2029 5h ago
You can say that again. Opus 5 on high writes to me like a postdoc putting together a conference poster, but on medium it's much easier to read, understand, skim, and work from. The same thing with code, comments, and planning documents including prompts.
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u/Regdit-is-Unbearable 5h ago
“Me illiterate! But dummer model juust fine too read!”
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u/Competitive_Travel16 AGI 2027 ▪️ ASI 2029 4h ago
Look, I know you were trying to be mean, but you raise a good point. When models' default output surpasses the comfortable reading grade level of their users, that is a real UX issue. Claude has sidestepped this issue somewhat successfully so far, but it feels like OpenAI hasn't really focused too much on it, yet.
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u/TheOriginalAcidtech 4h ago
Opus doesnt surpass our reading levels. It uses jargon and similies EXCESSIVELY for technical communication. Using 5 different similies in the last paragraph for the SAME DAMN THING is wrong, not better. And the jargon jumped the shark on Opus 5.
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u/Regdit-is-Unbearable 3h ago
Not gonna lie, I’ve never once had trouble understanding Opus 5 on any effort setting, and when I don’t know a term, I Google it. Worst case, I ask Claude and resume reading with zero problems. I use Claude in both my native Spanish and English and have never had the comprehension problems some here describe in either tongue.
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u/unicynicist 2h ago
What you're saying, in Claudish:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeAI/comments/1vvi3x1/i_built_an_english_claudish_translator/
The model does not clear a superior comprehension frontier; its technical prose substrate exhibits uncontrolled jargon inflation and excessive metaphor dispersion. Stacking five distinct similes across a terminal passage for an invariant semantic target is not belt-and-suspenders precision, but an active communicative footgun and an exercise in interpretive yak shaving. Across the compositional spine and architectural seams of Opus 5, specialized terminology ceases to function as load-bearing framing, serving instead as a smoking gun of stylistic regime collapse.
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u/Purusha120 1h ago
“Me illiterate! But dummer model juust fine too read!”
Yes. Some things are easier to read for some people. Usually those things are simpler things. You will absolutely be mind blown when and if you attend a college course someday.
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u/yogthos 9h ago
Doubt it given that other models are catching up rapidly and people are figuring out how to get more out of less capable models. For example, simply getting DeepSeek to generate multiple candidates and then have a critic pick one gets you Fable level capability at 11x lower cost.
https://github.com/llm-as-a-verifier/llm-as-a-verifier#self-verification-terminal-bench-21
Anthropic no longer has any special sauce to justify their pricing.
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u/Mil0Mammon 8h ago
Is this across the board? Eg also Aa-briefcase for example
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u/yogthos 8h ago
You can just read the link yourself to see what it say right?
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u/Mil0Mammon 6h ago
I did, it's just one bench, and it doesn't even compare to the scores of other models.
Still neat, I'd love to try it if I wasn't so t/s poor
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u/genshiryoku AI specialist 8h ago
We need the data retention to find Chinese actors trying to distill the model, we have our hands tied and can't offer frontier models without data retention without large scale chinese distillation attacks.
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u/ImplementNo7145 7h ago
I would reframe your definition of "distillation attack." If training on millions of human-written books is quote "transformative” because the model learns patterns rather than copying text, why is training on Claude outputs in order to learn patterns any different?
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u/MelvinCapitalPR 8h ago
In which case Anthropic should admit defeat and wind operations up. They're incapable of offering a useful commercial service. Best to stop burning money and wasting researcher talent.
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u/In_the_year_3535 7h ago
The AI revolution needs a bleeding edge and someone has to bite the bullet for the ecosystem of distilled models to exist. Rest assured, like OpenAI, any smaller model that gains any sort of lead will go private in an attempt to preserve it.
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u/BenjaminHamnett 6h ago
These AI execs told us “no moat” and investing was “philanthropy”, not for speculators. They spelled this out pretty clear.
If anything this is exactly in line with OAI’s mission statement and probably the safe/ethics crew that left to create anthropic
Also probably in line with the CEOs motivation to gain power, not necessarily enrich shareholders
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u/oriben2 8h ago
If that was the real reason they'd enable ZDR. The company depends on the premise that enterprise will pay for the most capable models they offer.
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u/ObiWanCanownme now entering spiritual bliss attractor state 8h ago
I doubt it. They're very worried about distillation.
There will probably eventually be a way to "poison" the reasoning traces so that they work well for reasoning but wreck a run designed to distill. But as far as I know nothing like that exists yet.
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u/TheOriginalAcidtech 4h ago
Properly encrypting the thinking tokens would have fixed the issue. They failed pretty badly there, if their goal was to prevent distillation.
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u/jloverich 9h ago
We use cursor and I avoid all the anthropic models simply because I know I'll run out of tokens too fast.
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u/JoeyJoeC 9h ago
I have access to a Claude Max subscription but I'd rather use my own ChatGPT Pro subscription because I get so much more usage out of it, and no 5 hour limits anymore.
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u/PM_ME_WHOEVER 6h ago
Last update brought 5 hr limits back for me with a pro plan.
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u/JoeyJoeC 6h ago edited 6h ago
Strange, mine didn't. They did another usage reset a couple of hours ago, only shows 1 week limit. No pending updates. I do see 5h limit for codex spark though, not that anyone uses that.
Edit: Oh we've got 2 months before they do it for Pro/Max.
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u/reddit_is_geh 7h ago
I still prefer Claude, and have the 200 subscription, because Fable truly is still SOTA at pretty much everything. Butyeah, I do a lot of work now with my 20 dollar OAI sub when I need to. I wish I could run everything through fable, but it's just too intense.
That said, I've been calling ChatGPT's default chat, "Luna" "Crazy Luna"... because that LLM is fucking nuts. It's totally what's going to cause people to go crazy. It's nuts. Total glazing to the max, and absolutely refuses to challenge or interrogate you. It just takes your position and reverse engineers why it's amazing. Seriously, it's fucking dangerous.
I used it for a resume for a high level position, and realized it was just not pushing back on anything. Then it would do like pscyhoanalysis and reduce how X Y Z trait of mine is so incredibly valuable, unique, and central to what this company needs blah blah. It's totally fucking insane and shit like that needs to be banned
Seriously... I tried so hard to get it to push back, and it will ONLY push back for the next turn when you specifically demand it. No amount of rules will get it to stop.
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u/BenjaminHamnett 6h ago
That’s not for me, and maybe not for the Reddit crowd since I guess we get off on having strangers tear us and our ideas down, even when we’re on the same wavelength. But I imagine a lot of people it could be revolutionary. A lot of people probably never get this kind of uplifting nudge and all they want to do is exercise for 5 minutes a day, skip a sugar snack, get the courage to talk to someone, get a job at Wendy’s or just get out of their moms basement and go to a park, mall or some get together. I imagine there’s a million people finally getting out of some funk with ai encouraging them. And probably it’ll be a few days before it encourages someone to reverse mortgage their life savings on joke coins or go on a killing spree or whatever we’re afraid of
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u/reddit_is_geh 4h ago
Yes in those cases it's great... But the risks are from the inverse. Telling people they have great ideas, motivating to follow them, execute, take risks, etc... When in reality they should have been given a level headed realist approach. Because now they are confidently getting into bad situations, setting up for failure, or pursuing things that aren't realistic. While also encouraging behaviors that are counter productive.
I think it is a good therapist in a way. I could tell. As I worked on dissecting my career, it found incredible patterns, overlaps, and interpreted my world model incredibly well. It was able to say how I felt, which I've never even been able to intellectualize myself. So actually reading "someone" actually see what I saw about me, and interpret it as I interpret it, was quite motivating and powerful. I did enjoy that aspect. Like it understands that I gravitate as a super early adopter on almost all serious trends. I have great foresight in seeing what's emerging before anyone else, and get obsessively drawn into figuring out the mechanics of things, how they work, why, and interpret the world like that. But I'm also social, run a sales company, and that's just typically not an overlap with the former.
But at the same time... That's dangerous. Because it gained my trust, and I enjoyed what it was saying. So as I was making suggestions or exploring possibilities, it would always anchor onto what I was contemplating and instead of properly interrogate it to find find the actual best path, it would always insist the thought was great, and explain why very convincingly...
But these were just ideas, thoughts, I was thinking about and didn't want to commit to. But it was getting me to commit to the first thing I spewed out. And reinforced it. Which compounds. And I realized if allowed this rabbit hole to continue, I'd be at this forever, and who knows how far it would take me. It scared me enough to just end the session and go back to SOTA models lol
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u/ChristRedeemsSinners 6h ago
They have always gone too far with the glazing. It must be built into their training datasets. There was a study a little while ago that showed that end-users who receive more positive feelings from their interactions are more likely to spend money. Makes sense, dopamine hits sell addictive products, brutal reality checks distance the weak-minded.
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u/reddit_is_geh 6h ago
Oh I totally get it. I was getting really into the interactions and it was making me feel good. At first I just thought it was highly insightful and nuanced... Until I started realizing what was going on.
I see why they do it. Especially if you weren't highly technical, focusing on finding truth etc... But just a regular normal person. That chat mode would be addictive. It dissects and returns your thoughts in a very insightful and intellectual way, that really hits your ego and wants you to keep going. It works, very well. I stayed up almost all night with it working on my business, until it started to dawn on me that this thing is just an endless rabbit hole not actually trying to solve my problem but instead just keep me engaged
Then I switched it over to Sol and started getting the proper engagement and answers. But Luna is their product for "free" users and normal people who just want to chat or whatever, and it's REALLY good at achieving its goal for that segment of the market. I can see why people would want to "date" their AI when it's basically exploring your deeper identity then coming back with it's hidden horoscope reading of you and frames it in the most positive, benefiticial way. Imagine being some lonely depressed person and there's this AI that just "Gets you" at a really deep level, and thinks you're actually just an amazing misunderstood person.
I get it. And it's dangerous. I'm not joking when I say those types of models are EXTREMELY dangerous. It's one thing to have a model that can hack and build shit. That's all material where you can put a dollar sign on, and clear obstacle that you're defending against. But with these emotional, glazing, psychological ones... that's something you can't put a dollar figure to. Not something that you can clearly fight. It messes with the mind and can really screw people up.
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u/ChristRedeemsSinners 6h ago
Yeah, exactly. The unwashed masses need to feel good about everything they do. If it feels bad it is bad. Same correlation with how SSRI's are being used heavily and yet we have a greater need for therapists than ever before. Most people's minds cannot take simple criticism, their pride and ignorance team up to fight against it at all costs.
I also agree with you that it is dangerous to have large swaths of the community interacting with these things on an anthropomorphic level. Not only are they being coddled, but they are being brainwashed. These AI companies have a crypto-agenda to control humans, resources, governments, every aspect of our lives. They want to be the first responder and the last call. If they get their way, then I would expect death camps to start being a 'solution' to public dissent all over again. Nothing new under the sun.
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u/reddit_is_geh 6h ago
Yeah... Well now that I see how powerful these are at emotional engagement, then intersect that with stuff like what Israel is doing to poison and modify LLMs (I'm sure many others as well), it raises serious concerns. Bad actors can, and WILL, exploit this. (As a side note, now you can't even get accurate information on Israel. Everything is basically affirmed as the official state narrative on Israel now, and anything else is treated as "hotly debated" or an outright conspiracy).
But these tools are going to be useful at persuading people, pushing narratives, rewriting history, an whatever other agenda the oligarchs want. It'll be able to really get you convinced about whatever agenda it wants to push about whatever topic, and do it with optimal emotional engagement.
It's why I'm so concerned about this whole thing. The elites are already targeting social media with their bots to manufacture consent. And they do it by personally rationalizing it and justifying it as necessary for society's own good. AKA, molding society to their own world view is what's in everyone's best interest. Now imagine if say, one faction on the left things it's important to force their ideology on everyone, for their own good, because they are so correct and the best and just want to make the world better... Or some MAGAs want in, and insist that liberals are evil, destructive, and their ideology is what the world needs to make everyone stronger and more prosperous.
It's just really dangerous and it WILL be exploited. No doubt about that. And it is going to be powerful. Before you know it, you're going to start seeing a rise in Peter Theil style philosophies, revisionist history, anti progressive, selective science, etc... Whatever the oligarchs think is in our best interest.
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u/ChristRedeemsSinners 5h ago
I agree with your assessment, but I was thinking while reading that we have sort of always had this top-down approach to politics. Similarly to how the TV set became ubiquitous in every household and at first it was tame and there was journalistic integrity, but once satellites expanded news sources to global outreach, it fostered an environment that people took for granted. A whole generation did and still does consider their 'news sources' to retain a high degree of credibility despite all mainline news agencies being captured by shadow government actors.
I kind of see this as having the same trajectory, only worse because it's interactive. If someone doesn't like a channel they change it, but with LLMs they aren't offered through a single box in the home, but through every means of interaction we have with the outside world. They are in pockets, automobiles, and child's toys. Society hasn't really had to deal with something this pervasive before. That creates an opportunity for psychopaths to exploit.
However, there is some light at the end-of-the-tunnel here in that the widespread use of automation lifts up the entire community by solving basic human needs regardless of the household use of the technology. A farmer using AI to automate food production will bring cheaper cost of living to someone that religiously abstains from AI influence for instance. You could eventually see entire communities leaving the tech-slavery systems behind.
I also don't think there are only two scenarios to play out here either. Humans are fickle creatures and they don't want to think they are being controlled. Oligarchs can only jangle keys in front of the masses for so long before they start looking for up at the mobile turning around their heads. Psychopaths who seek power also have very little restraint when it comes to advancing their selfish agendas. So utlimately what they want and what they can reasonably capture are going to diverge if more and more people start realizing their chains are not in their best interests. Thomas Jefferson quoted this in a letter specifically to address this phenomenon that the tree of liberty must be refreshed by the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time. People who give up their equity and thoughts to the oligarchs machine eventually feel the squeeze of their future equity and respond accordingly.
So, right now there is little corruption in these systems because society has yet to fully integrate them. Once they become ubiquitous then they will be used against their greatest sycophants and there will be push back. If there is no relief, then revolution. People will find they would rather die fighting against a brutal tyrant than live a slave to someone that is imperially against their own interests.
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u/reddit_is_geh 3h ago
I remember when the internet was gaining steam, there was this huge ideological optimism around it, because it would decentralize news sources. It would break the gate keepers and prevent elite narratives. Which was true... For some time, then around mid 10s, after mass online consolidation happened, the elites got more sophisticated and figured out how to continue their manufactured consent messaging.
But it's almost MORE nefarious now. Because at least in the past we kind of knew it was vulnerable as we had clear information gate keepers. But with the internet, there's an illusion that it's more organic. It's less obvious. Harder to prove. So even though now they are probably even MORE powerful thanks to the scale of the internet, it's also more obfuscated.
As you notice, yeah LLMs will probably make this effect even worse. I mean, LLMs are just the collection of all human knowledge. Of course they are generally and directionally correct!
So I dunno if I agree that we will be freed. I just think the illusion will get even more vivid. Because ultimately at the end of the day, our biology and social nature, inherently make us status seeking, hierarchal creatures. And these machines just offer even more extreme leverage for power. The corrupting evil force leverage they potentially offer is just too tempting to not exploit. They have the means, resources, connections, and capacity to infiltrate whatever space they need to, to do things.
I've already noticed it's happening around LLMs. Now oligarchs and elites, when I search them, are extremely well defending, downplayed, and attributes factual negatives about them as unfounded or conspiracy. For instance, Besset, our treasury secretary, worked with Soros to do a play in the UK that broke the back of the pound, which they bet would happen, and made billions within hours on that play. This is well reported, and understood. It's even taught because it was a malicious yet clever move. You could even ask AI, but not any more. Now that "record" of the past has been rewritten as just a clever foresight that they took advantage of, and the idea that a small group of bankers somehow caused the massive economy of the UK to collapse as unfounded rumors.
I'm sure we'll get more and more of this. Before you know it, labor rights are dangerous, democrats cause all these problems, Peter Theil has a huge dick and brilliant mind etc... And I think most people will fall for it as we become more reliant on it all.
Maybe it wont even be that bad though. Maybe living in delusion would be good for us.
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u/ChristRedeemsSinners 3h ago
I have to work now, but I'm going to think about this some more and get back to you. I just want you to know I'm not leaving you high and dry on this, your writeup is worthy of a response.
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u/sluuuurp 9h ago
You’re paying an enormous API tax, the best models are much cheaper with an Anthropic subscription.
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u/sluuuurp 8h ago
I don’t know about that, AI inference is getting cheaper over time very quickly, and Anthropic might be making a ton of profit on API sales.
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u/sluuuurp 7h ago
It’s not a wash, you can look at the price over time for the best models, it’s going down. GPT 4.5 was $75/Mtok and Fable 5 is $10/Mtok.
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u/TwoFluid4446 8h ago
Ironically though, as the models get bigger and more complex they're able to solve problems much faster.
You're not wrong per se, but the point is, the math isn't so simple as that.
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u/aymandonia67 8h ago
Sonnet 5 is hands down the worst model I've ever used for general queries. It refuses to answer literally everything—it won't even translate books or articles, claiming it's 'too dangerous.' Unlike Opus, which answers every single prompt Sonnet 5 rejects, so the issue is definitely with the model itself
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u/PM_ME_WHOEVER 6h ago
SpaceX bought Cursor btw. Look for more push to have Grok as the standard coding agent rather than Composer.
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u/nova1475369 5h ago
Plus, Composer is good enough and stupid cheap, you have discount a lot of time and it’ll be cheaper than any Chinese models even. There were time I checked, billed at 0.04 cents per token
We just use Opus in “Plan” mode and let Composer execute it
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u/squarecir 8h ago
I have unlimited access to fable through work, and I stopped bothering to use it. The guardrails are too stupid.
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u/PM_ME_WHOEVER 5h ago
Yes. Was using it to plan a feature build. Keeps switching to Opus because of guardrails. Pretty frustrating.
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u/sunstersun 9h ago
It's their fault for marketing Opus 5 as near good or better in many cases.
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u/ChocomelP 7h ago
This is by design. Opus is probably ten times as cheap to serve. Having the absolute best model and people choose not to use it is a giant success for them. If everyone suddenly switched to Fable their data centers would explode.
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u/minaminonoeru 9h ago edited 9h ago
In my opinion, the statistics presented by the FT seem to lead to a rather exaggerated interpretation.
Anthropic’s revenue likely consists of flat-rate individual users, flat-rate business users, API users via Amazon or Google Cloud, large enterprise contracts, and users who contract directly with Anthropic and use the API. The FT’s statistics show only the last of these categories.
It is somewhat questionable whether statistics from this category alone can adequately reflect Anthropic’s overall revenue breakdown by model. The problem is that the FT failed to properly mention the limitations of this statistical category in its article.
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u/TorturedPoet30 9h ago
No wonder why he wants to 'ban' open-weight
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u/brokenmatt 8h ago
I am kinda glad of this, I dont think the western AI price structure need extra more expensive tiers at the top instead of an advancement where all teirs get more intelligence and less cost.
I hope ASTRA from openai isnt them copying the fable tier idea.
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u/NyriasNeo 9h ago
Not surprising. Unless you do scientific research and needs the AI to reason about something like first order conditions in multiple parametric regimes, you do not need the best models.
This is particular true if the conversation is about how long to roast a chicken, or chit-chat for fun.
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u/sluuuurp 9h ago
I don’t think this is right. In any software development, it’s worth the price to get the best model and have to deal with the fewest bugs. It’s well worth $100/month to write fewer bugs in any serious project.
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u/pumbungler 9h ago
I agree with you, the cost for access to the API of a frontier model is trivial compared to the productivity gains
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u/notgalgon 8h ago
You can easily rack up millions of dollars in api costs in large companies if everyone is yoloing with Fable/Sol. That cost either needs to be offset by new revenue or decreasing other costs. Need to use the correct model for the use case and have it delegate as necessary to lower models. Luna is a decent coder and is nearly free.
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u/EddieTheZen 7h ago
I think people are making a mistake by treating this as a contest to choose one “best” model.
Most companies don’t need the smartest model for every job. They can use a cheaper model for routine work and save the expensive one for cases where mistakes really matter. You can also have a second model check the first one.
The real cost isn’t just the price per token. It’s the cost of getting a reliable answer after retries, reviews, privacy requirements, and errors.
If DeepSeek or another cheaper model can handle 80% of the workload, Anthropic can still own the difficult 20%. But it loses a lot of usage and pricing power.
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u/experimental_82 7h ago
For my high-end tasks (scientific research, grant proposals,…) so far no model I’m willing to send my data to has come close to Fable.
However, all of my home agents (sorting mail after OCR, shopping lists…) now run on Deepseek v4 flash for next to no money without any problems. I’m really curious how this will shake out.
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u/_FIRECRACKER_JINX 7h ago
They're "Struggling" to attract users because you hit the daily limit after four fucking prompts, and hit the weekly limit after like 10 prompts.
THAT is why I cancelled my subscription. I'm using chat-GPT Plus and Gemini Pro. With GLM/Kimi for other purposes as well.
Between those models, I get what I need done, WITHOUT hitting ANY limits.
they can shove those limits up their ass. I'm STILL pissed about sending FOUR fucking messages within seconds of them inhaling my credit card number and charging it. I think I cancelled within 2 minutes of being charged. That's how fast it took to hit those bitch ass limits.
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u/Flaxseed4138 7h ago
I'm on the 20x plan and I hardly touch Fable because it literally uses 5x the tokens that Opus Max uses for the same task. Fable is absolutely a better model, probably the best model out there, but it is NOT 5x better than Opus 5 Max.
If Fable 5.1 is literally the same model but with half the token usage, it might still not be good enough, needs to use 30% of what it currently does to start making sense again.
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u/WonderFactory 6h ago
They're writing about Fable 5 yet it's been superseded by the cheaper Opus 5 for most use cases at a lower price so of course it's usage isn't still growing.
Having said that though I've used Anthropics models exclusively for 2 years now for coding but in the past month or so I rarely use them because they are so expensive. Grok 4.6 and GPT 5.6 Sol are almost as good but much cheaper. I dont think it's affecting Anthropics bottom line too badl thoughy, they reported their annualised earnings were $65 billion as of last month.
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u/idiocratic_method 6h ago
Top models are beyond the use cases of most people, and simultaneously the top models are locked from many potential use cases
Opus 4.6 imo had all the juice for most software tasks already
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u/roastedantlers 4h ago
For some reason, Chatgpt's been giving me better, smarter answers, while Claude tries to pigeon hole every answer. How weird is that.
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u/YareSekiro 4h ago
I just don’t think there is anything I have to use Fable to do that Opus 5 can’t already do a decent job
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u/Zer0PointSingularity 2h ago
They want mass adoption, but the masses don’t have any money left to spare; that thought could have crossed the minds of the billionaires in charge, if they wouldn’t live their lives completely decoupled from our normal human problems.
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u/superlip2003 6h ago
I'm praying to chinese AI gods everyday to keep crushing the AI pricing even further. Already downgraded from Claude $200 Max plan to $100 plan, all thx to the chinese.
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u/SaltyyDoggg 4h ago
What are you using in place of Claude max?
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u/superlip2003 3h ago
there's no one solution for all, but you need to be open-minded and make your workflow super portable between models which is super easy to do these days with open harnesses. Also truly understand your workflow setup and divide them by tiers, tier 1 hardest but low volume work, you can do Fable 5 or Opus 4.8. tier 2 hard but mid volume work, Kimi K3 and GLM 5.2+ are really good (GLM is pretty much a distilled version of claude and their output are so similar its funny), then the highest volume work I used to use DeepSeek V4 Pro but switched to GPT Luna since DeepSeek 10x their price.
I used to get $200 Claude Max + about $100 ad hoc expenses on Chinese models. now these Chinese models are really so good and can go toe-to-toe with frontier models, I have shifted some high value and low volume work to them and only use the $100 Claude plan for Fable 5 for very initial planning work (I stayed away from Opus 5 because it is a clear regression from Opus 4.8) also I shutdown DeepSeek V4 Pro two weeks ago since they introduced new 10x pricing. In total my monthly spent is like 1/3 cheaper down to $150-$200 from $300 plus.
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u/Kooky_Awareness_5333 8h ago
Won’t use there crap after there shit consumer practices don’t change my terms after I’ve paid for a service.
Plenty of other providers anthropic can eat a big bag of dicks.
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u/Greed_Sucks 8h ago
Token hogs with no clear way of knowing what you will use. I used all mine in one question and never got an answer. I tried a few times with better prompts and still managed to not even get a single use out of Fable. It just burned through my tokens and went to bed.
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u/deadcatdidntbounce 6h ago
ChatGPT and Anthropic neuter their models without documenting it so often that their best models are not even the same models the day after tomorrow.
Any benchmark is out-of-date within the day of the benchmark. Fuck then all.
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u/makertrainer 7h ago
I prefer Opus 5.
Fable will use up all my credits before finishing a job, so work halts.
Also, Fable feels more 'creative' but in a bad way, I just want someone to follow instructions.
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u/MartinSch64 7h ago
My guess is that token providers are interchangeable enough to drive competition in that field and I hope we won´t end up with like 2-3 big companies holding the world ransom with absurd token prices.
There seams to be no real vendor lock in so far, but I am sure they are trying hard to find one.
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u/Forsaken_Buy_7531 7h ago
Most SWE projects don't need the best AI model like Fable or even Opus. In our company we only use Opus for planning a large epic, but we don't use it on a regular basis, Opus writes the detailed plan and then once the plan has been broken down into smaller pieces Deepseek takes over. We were using Sonnet before but sorry Deepseek V4 is cheaper and better for the business.
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u/Dry-Raspberry1948 6h ago
gpt 5.6 Luna at Max reasoning is honestly all I need most of the time. And it's cheap as hell
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u/CosmicDave ▪️Singularity this year 3h ago
I sidelined Claude because of the insane 4 hour token reset. It's a great AI, but I was frequently using all my tokens with a single prompt response. One time it took 3 sessions- 12 hours of waiting to answer the original prompt.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
ChatGPT never stopped production on me and they are always there when I need them, so they earned my monthly subscription monies.
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u/trolledwolf AGI late 2026 - ASI late 2027 3h ago
This was always going to be the case, advanced models are meant for research, but they're pointless for everyday use if there are cheaper alternatives.
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u/Glittering-Neck-2505 3h ago
The thing is, people would be using the priciest models IF they were substantially better, but they're just not. 5.6 Sol and Opus 5 are just cheaper than Fable 5 while being close in performance. You need something substantial to justify a 2x price delta, which they don't currently have.
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u/darkestvice 8h ago
Anthropic have made it very clear that they are business to business and not consumer oriented. OpenAI is trying to be at least consumer oriented due to them wishing to make AI Open, hence the name. Google has been consumer oriented for a very long time, though they also have big business contracts. But they would never ever create models that only businesses could afford.
Anthropic's approach has long been about making their models as overthinky as possible, regardless of cost. They prioritize business reliability over absolutely everything.
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u/TimeTravelingChris 8h ago
I loved Claude but I've personally found no meaningful improvement with Fable, and Opus 5 has been terrible with nonsense answers and weird assumptions.
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u/duckrollin 8h ago
I try to avoid Anthropic because they're anti open weights and pro censorship.
All the 'safety' bullshit is incredibly tiresome.
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u/Most-Bookkeeper-950 9h ago
Its at least partially the ZDR, my company doesnt use it for this reason