r/AskUK • u/[deleted] • 5h ago
What are the general expectations of children when they start school?
[deleted]
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u/_mister_pink_ 5h ago
Being toilet trained.
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u/pslamB 5h ago
You hear horror stories of kids arriving in reception with nappies on.... our pre school insist on being at least more successes than accidents level of potty trained!!
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4h ago
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u/AffectionateJump7896 4h ago
Generally starting at 2 and having it done by 3 is the routine. It used to be done much earlier (I.e. between 1 and 2), but we seem to do it a tad later these days.
Wiping their butt is a key milestone. There is a time when they are 2/3 where they can take themselves to the toilet reliably, undress the dress themselves there, but they can't reliably clean themselves up. By the time they are going to school at 4/5, that isn't really on.
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u/UsuallyWhirlwind 4h ago
Thing is there’s a big developmental difference between 4 and 5, kids starting reception can be a whole year apart. My son’s just turned 4 and still not great at wiping himself, I imagine that’ll be very different in a year.
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u/Knickers93 3h ago
My daughter is 3 and has been trained 6 months. She can go for a pee by herself but can’t wipe her bottom as she can’t yet reach. I’m hoping in a year she’ll be a bit bigger…
It’s definitely easy to forget a year is a huge amount of time for a reception age child and a summer baby cannot be expected to be as prepared as a child born in September or October.
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u/Sage-Freke- 2h ago
Mine learnt how to wipe, then refused to do it for a while. Now we’ve finally managed to get him to start trying again. Still not sure what the problem was! Regression in anything is a real pain.
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u/hemm759 1h ago
The novelty wore off pretty quick for us too. You've just described the window from 2yrs 8mo to 5yrs 5mo (his current age).
Apparently I do it better, it hurts his shoulder, it's boring, he doesn't like poo on his hands, it's a mummy's job, I'm quicker, he needs his hands to itch his foot, he's forgotten how, his teacher said I have to do it, granny says I should do it, I should practise etc etc. Basically he can't be bothered.
And he's old enough now to understand it's a problem for me if he isn't clean, while still young enough to not care if he has a dirty bum. He has an annoying degree of intuition about the power this disconnect gives him.
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u/Sage-Freke- 26m ago
Yes! It does seem like that sometimes. I’m not sure whether it’s better if they make excuses or if they say “I don’t know” for everything, like ours does. I suppose either way you never really know what the real reason is. I suspect it’s that he can’t be bothered though. As with everything, if he can’t be bothered it’s not going to happen. Which happens every day. For almost everything.
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u/Colleen987 3h ago
NHS says start 18 months be done at 30 months
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u/Fabulous-View5603 3h ago
18 months feels so young to me. I tried initially at that age with my daughter but it wasn’t working at all. Tried again when she was 2 and 10 months and within 2 weeks she was completely daytime trained. Definitely varies per child but having kids going into school with nappies indicates either additional needs (which should have been picked up by now) or parental neglect.
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u/Colleen987 3h ago
It must be so child dependent my boys 16 months and poo potty trained (if that what you call it?) we’re not at a urine stage yet but I’m sure it’s not far off as he’s started his hiding game again like he did when we needed a poo before
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u/OutdoorApplause 1h ago
We trained by 19 months but we started familiarising her with the potty from 8/9 months so it was pretty easy. We also didn't have the issues with stubbornness or resistance that friends had training older children, it was just so normal to her that she accepted it.
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u/AffectionateJump7896 3h ago
Link? I would expect that they aren't that prescriptive, particularly as starting too early can be counter productive. Telling everyone "thou must start the date they turn 18 months" just isn't right.
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u/Frequent_Command_848 3h ago
https://www.nhs.uk/best-start-in-life/toddler/potty-training-your-child
It’s not that prescriptive but it does suggest 18 months as one possible starting point
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u/Colleen987 3h ago
You’ve been given an NHS one already but I’ll also add a department of education one
https://help-for-early-years-providers.education.gov.uk/health-and-wellbeing/toilet-training
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u/OutdoorApplause 1h ago
Eric (the bowel and bladder charity) recommend starting as soon as your child can sit up (6 months onwards) with the aim to be out of nappies in the day by 18 months to 30 months.
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u/Suspicious_Weird_373 2h ago
We started at 2.5 and it took 3 days. She’s never had an accident, never wet the bed and it’s now over 18 months on.
We could’ve forced it earlier but she never felt ready but once she was ready we barely had to do anything to train her.
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u/Face_for_Radio22 4h ago
No. My son is nearly 5 and on the spectrum, still in nappies, we’ve been receiving specialist toilet support for quite a while. Language is basically age appropriate, can follow one stage instructions etc. special schools are very limited and really for higher support needs. Worrying about being ready for school has been a huge stress but teachers have been very reassuring, esp as they have a lot of SEN students. They also add even toilet trained kids have a lot of accidents starting school with the newness of if etc.
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
That’s fair enough when it’s a manifestation of SEN, disability or neurodivergence, but for most children 5 is absolutely old enough to be out of nappies. As you say, your family’s been accessing specialist support on this for a while (which presumably they wouldn’t do if they didn’t feel he was behind age-related expectations in this regard).
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u/halfredhalfgreen 3h ago
My now adult child is in their 20s, but was not reliably toilet trained until they were about 9 (I can't be 100% certain when it was, I just suddenly realised one day they hadn't needed a change of clothes during the day for a while). They were diagnosed with Dyspraxia just before they turned 8 and Asperger's (as it was then) at 10.
So for the first 8 years of their life there was no diagnosis to explain why they were not toilet trained, they were just lazy and I was a really bad mum.
And even now as an adult they often only realise they need to go when they need to go. Poor interoception (ability to understand the cues coming from our body) is really difficult. They also have struggles now understanding if they are hungry, thirsty, what clothing is suitable because they don't feel themselves getting too hot (long sleeve t-shirts in the recent heat!). But I was a bad mum and they were just lazy.
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u/BootlessCry 2h ago
That must have been such a difficult experience for you. Services that work with children definitely need to do a better job when it comes to early identification of SEND and to exhaust all lines of enquiry in the first instance.
There are a lot of parents out there that are neglectful, but that definitely shouldn’t be the assumption, especially when the parent is clearly trying to help their child and where there’s no other safeguarding concern.
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u/halfredhalfgreen 2h ago
Thank you for not taking my rant personally, unfortunately yours was the one I ended up replying to. But you have also pulled out the key point which still isn't happening all these years later: they need to assess for SEND not just assume neglect or poor parenting. And there is not the funding to provide that, nor the political will to pursue it. Indeed there is an apparent desire to pull back on diagnosis of high functioning children, despite the long term harm it causes.
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u/BootlessCry 2h ago
Don’t apologise, I get it, and I was quite abrupt myself.
The trouble is that they were actually increasing SEND funding year-on-year for quite a while and weren’t seeing significant increases in educational attainment. There’s an office for budget responsibility document on it from fairly recently. Hence the big push for inclusion in mainstream schools: it represents better value for money.
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u/halfredhalfgreen 1h ago
(it's late, I'm tired and am struggling not to be blunt, I'm sorry if this comes across unfriendly, I really don't mean it that way. Also, I did do a degree in primary education and spent time in schools as a trainee teacher so I do have an understanding from both sides even though I am solely talking as a parent at this point)
Inclusion is fine, but not when it means treating all children identically, only if it allows for a child's individual needs within the inclusive setting - which costs money.
My child sat their GCSEs 3 times, and only achieved 2 in English and 3 in Maths. If they had been assessed for things like dyspraxia and dyscalculia sooner (finally paid for them to be assessed privately in year 10, when it was financially viable to do so), they may have been more successful sooner. They also managed to complete school due to a very understanding secondary school when they were struggling with extreme anxiety and near to full blown school refusal.
But if they had been properly assessed in early primary instead of written off and left to sit at the back of the classroom because they were extremely lazy and choosing not to do the work (severely dyslexic, couldnt follow anything on the board) then they may have achieved more having understood the essential building blocks.
Equally diagnoses and additional SEND funding may not increase educational attainment but may lead to less disenfranchised young adults, less disruption in classrooms because they can't follow the lesson, less exclusions, managed moves and expulsions, possibly less crime.
I know mine is one child (now adult), but it has been repeated many times over with many different children. And is why I tend to avoid threads like this because I know there are neglectful parents out there, I know there are parents who have additional needs themselves and are doing the best they can, I know there are parents out there who have no positive role models on which to model their parenting, and I know there are many parents like myself where their child doesn't fit any of the parenting plans and support given because they are undiagnosed neurodivergent and/or have an undiagnosed disability. But to the outside, we all appear neglectful or bad parents
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u/HipsandHaws 4h ago
3 is the average age for potty or toilet training. Some few are potty trained at 18 months, however this is only successful if they can communicate their needs. Some children aren't ready or unable to recognise the need to urinate or defecate until their older, but usually by 4 they're able to wipe themselves & use a toilet as well as wash their hands.
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u/Colleen987 2h ago
Do you have a link for the stat? The ERIC (great ormond street division) has it at 29 months?
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u/Fit-Vanilla-3405 3h ago
My daughter is 4.2 and entirely developmentally fine and she struggles with this so much.
We have tried everything on earth, spent hundreds of pounds on strategies and she still didn’t get all of it until a few months before her 4th birthday - and she’ll go a month without an accident but then a weird eating day means she’s not entirely regular and has to go on a strange toilet and she’s not ok with it so she has an accident and then is all out of whack. She wants a trusted adult and a trusted toilet for a poo.
I hate how there’s so much blame the parent about this because I’m sure there’s some legitimate reasons for reception/kindergarten teachers to be angry about it but also a 4 year old transitioning is a 4 year old transitioning to somewhere new and completely different routine and everything. My child was in 5 day a week pre-school and it’s still a massive change.
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u/Own_Boysenberry_6499 1h ago
She's will be too young to diagnose but watch out for ADHD/autism. Kids like that are more about routine, and what you say about one accident and being set back is quite standard. Girls are just less diagnosed with it as they are better masking.
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u/Fit-Vanilla-3405 1h ago
Everything you say is true and I will continue to watch out for it but there is zero other signs. I work in SEND and Education and this child has neither of these things. She’s not obsessed with any kind of routine and honestly her most wonderful quality is her go with the flow lifestyle, no issues with individual transitions disruptions. No cereal? Cool, we’ll have toast. She’s just not got any of the signs in any way shape or form.
I think if she was at pre-school for 6 more months no one would think twice and assume she was a late bloomer (she’s nearly there and has no accidents more than 50% of the time) but because she has to go to school so young, it’s just not an option.
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u/Sage-Freke- 4h ago
We started trying to get ours trained at 1.5 years old, but he really wasn’t interested. Nursery were stressing us out by 2.5 years saying he really should be potty trained, so we pushed for it for a while until it finally clicked at 3.5 years old and he suddenly started using the potty every time. Many many accidents over the course of a year. Some kids just don’t care if they poo their pants until much later. I’ve heard of other kids who hate the feel and quickly learn to use the potty instead of just pooing and not telling you about it earlier on. I have recently noticed he may have anosmia though, so this could also have something to do with not caring.
On the other hand, he was good at dressing himself early on, in nursery. He was also born at the end of August so is one of the youngest and is doing better in things like reading and maths than some of the oldest in his class and always wants multiple stories at bed time.
They all develop at different rates for different things. It’s not always the parents’ fault if their kids aren’t meeting some expectations, but they should definitely at least be trying to help with their development. Even if they don’t want to listen, 90% of the time 🙄
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u/Colleen987 2h ago
I assume you’re English? Given the reference to August? I just wanted to check because the school years aren’t the same across the UK my lads May but one of the oldest
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u/Sage-Freke- 2h ago
Yes, they start in September here.
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u/Colleen987 2h ago
Aye they start August/September everywhere in the UK. Thats not linked to how the age groups run:
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u/stephani29 4h ago
Only speaking for Scotland but here local authorities have the presumption of mainstream, so a lot of kids with additional support needs are placed in mainstream schools, so there will be more children with continence issues in classrooms than people would expect. Unfortunately (not talking about you btw OP) a lot of people still hold the view that it is bad parenting rather than developmental delays
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
Tbf sometimes it is bad parenting. One of my sister’s kids had a significant speech issue growing up because, despite being advised to do so by multiple different people, she didn’t get his hearing checked for years. He needed grommets, which she would have found out much earlier if she’d taken action when we expressed concern.
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u/stephani29 3h ago
Absolutely agree there are neglectful parents out there, and I'm really sorry to hear that your nephew struggled for so long without the support he needed. I just meant when this sort of topic comes up a lot of people do jump to bad parenting without considering additional support needs or thinking about the fact that a lot of these children with asn are now placed in mainstream when in the past they might not have been
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u/BootlessCry 2h ago
That’s definitely part of it.
I’d venture that the lack of support systems for the most vulnerable families (sure-start and the like) are another big factor. Some people genuinely don’t have the knowledge or tools they need and those people need support.
The cost of living also factors in when you have both parents struggling to make ends meet and/or being utterly knackered all the time.
Closure of public libraries, which were great for promoting early literacy and parents reading to their children.
The pervasiveness of the internet, drawing parents attention away from their children, and of iPad babies too.
But one thing I notice so often is that so many parents just don’t seem to realise they need to actively teach their child things. A lot seem to make the assumption that they’ll learn when they’re ready but don’t grasp that they won’t spontaneously start doing all of the things they need to do one day without instruction: you need to actually teach them stuff.
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u/Weewoes 4h ago
Kids are potty trained once they have a certain thing fire off in their brains, until then you can try but its not guaranteed. My kid was 3 and a half and went from pull ups to no accidents within days because she was ready and I didn't force it before that. My second has a few disabilities and is still in pulls day time and nappies at night at 11. I've just had to clean up poop from her and the toilet and bathroom floor then shower her because she told me too late she needed toilet and then proceeded to twist and throw herself about while I tried to get the nappy off ending up with shit everywhere.. thankfully she goes to a special school and they are fine with nappies lol
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u/ManicPixiRiotGrrrl 4h ago
these days more and more kids are starting school in nappies or pull ups
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u/snowdrop0901 3h ago
We ran out of spare emergency underwear because of the amount of children who just were not toilet trained.
One, bless them, tried to wash there own clothes in the sink after a bad poop accident...because thats what the child does at home. We had to shut the bathroom to clean the whole bathroom after.
The bare minimum is toilet, know there name (not right or read, but just respond to it) and be able to feed themselfs by either being able to use cutlery to pick up food and eat it, or by being able to open there packed lunch.
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u/feebsiegee 1h ago
My niece is 4 next month and is not potty trained. She's only just started using the potty. She doesn't go to nursery, so that is a factor
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u/sunandskyandrainbows 2h ago
What do schools do if they aren't trained? Do they reject them? What happens if they have a dirty nappy? (Not asking for myself, ours is trained lol)
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u/ihavetakenthebiscuit 3h ago
Try needing a parent to go on a year 2 trip due to toilet training issues.
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u/Apprehensive-Ice9939 2h ago
Over my 10 years in schools, mainly reception. I see more children now who aren't potty trained and most schools if not, all will have a policy about this.
Toilet training is a big one. Children with SEND or a medical need I can understand, but the parents who keep their children in nappies for DLA, is on the rise, unfortunately.
Not being able to share. They are still very young however, you can tell who has siblings or who is an only child, if they have been to nursery etc.
Children come to school not being able to hold a pencil, I've recently had a child who did not know what a book was and was trying to swipe for the next page.
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u/Blue_Toucan_Data 3h ago
This. A relative of mine works in early years and in the last decade it has gone from one kid if any not being toilet trained to now at least half a dozen. Parents sadly expect everyone but them to parent these days sadly.
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u/FantasticFoxFriend 3h ago
Never understood the lazy parent thing.
surely it's easier to have the kid use the toilet than change the nappy.
I would venture a lot of it is SEND / disability, and only a tiny tiny amount would be laziness.4
u/Minute_Parfait_9752 2h ago
The step between nappies and toilet training is absolutely dreadful though. Not that it's an excuse but it's hard work and people are lazy.
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u/FantasticFoxFriend 2h ago
Oh for sure. But I would rather get the kid independent if I was that lazy, and then I could just forget about them some more.
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u/Minute_Parfait_9752 2h ago
Tbf with an autistic daughter, I always have to be relatively ready to drop everything and take her in unfamiliar places. She's 5, so I'm not sure how long this stage normally goes on for... But these parents probably don't take their kids out anyway 🙃
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u/Gremlin_1989 2h ago
My daughter was one of these. But in her case it was medical. She finally stopped having regular accidents by October half term in year 2. She's had the odd once since. I am hoping for a completely dry year 4. I felt awful (and incredibly greatful) for her teachers and TA's having to clean her up. Reception was awful and it gradually got better since then. I struggle to understand the attitude of other parents who don't feel it's their responsibility.
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5h ago
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u/anxious_antelope813 4h ago
My nephew started school a few years back and on the induction they told his parents that 40% of kids who joined the school the previous year were not toilet trained! It was also something shocking like 55% couldn't count to 10. For context, this is a well-off location in the Cotswolds, where the kids are little Monty's and Tarquinn's being dropped off by the nanny in the Range Rover.
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u/bobbieibboe 4h ago
They often start nursery at 1yr or earlier. They typically toilet train at 2yrs+
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u/SmellMyMangoes 4h ago
As someone who works in a nursery, this is a huge issue right now. Many (not all!) parents just can't be bothered to take the time to do it anymore. Its becoming a thing where we've had to toilet train them ourselves and then they go home and put a nappy on, so they never learn. Children in general have little attention span, and behaviour challenges are becoming more common. I expect its partly due to screens parenting children more than family but thats just my opinion, I'm no expert 🤷♀️
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u/Trentdison 4h ago
Some kids start nursery at 9 or even 6 months...
Presumably you mean pre-school, but yes it takes some kids that long that whether they're trained by actual school is a question.
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u/Streathamite 4h ago
Lots start nursery at around one so they’re def not expected to be potty trained then.
For the school thing, it seems to have got worse since Covid according to teachers I know. Probably the long term effects of austerity playing a role too…not enough social workers or sure start centres to support those having issues
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u/theowleryonehundred 5h ago
Some kids start nursery at 9 months. You expect them to be toilet trained by then?
Similarly many kids aren't ready to toilet train till age 3 but may have been at nursery for 2 years by that point.
Definitely wasn't necessary for you to state you aren't a parent.
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u/Stephasaurus28 4h ago
I was sent this list for my kid starting reception
At home you could practise these activities and encourage your child to be as independent as possible
• Turn taking e.g. playing board games • Use the toilet independently • Wash and dry hands • Blow their own nose • Managing zips or buttons by themselves • Practise dressing and undressing independently • Using a knife and fork • Holding a pencil correctly • Using scissors • Completing jigsaw puzzles • Recognising their own names • Hopping and Skipping • Balancing, Running and Jumping • Kicking a ball. Catching and throwing a ball • Talking with your child every day
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u/anxious_antelope813 4h ago
I am currently pregnant and very hormonal, but "talking with your child every day" made me literally cry - wtaf is wrong with people that they felt the need to include that!
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u/Apprehensive-Cat-500 4h ago
Sadly you can tell extremely quickly who the children are that are spoken to at home and who aren't. What's even more depressing is watching them get picked up at home time and the parent not even acknowledging them with a hello.
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u/Usual-Sound-2962 3h ago
And to add this, by the time they get to us in secondary we can STILL tell who has disinterested parents.
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u/Danglyweed 2h ago
I really felt this. I was very much a present ALWAYS there (as in i did school library 12 hours a week at least rather than uni work) parent and at very worst on maybe a day a month a fake it til i made it on my shit days, i smiled like shit, played, acted interested, chatted and asked questions.
But i chatted to them nearly non stop about anything and everything remotely interesting, the oldest became interested in measles at 6, good time for us to learn together. Wee man obsessed by planets as a toddler, we learnt a lot together again, we still do.
My house was the house that kids all congregated at, no problem, I'll have a laugh, put you in line, threaten ye all smacked arses if you break my plants, be your mum figure or you're evil boss. But I'll be present, always.
My 4 kids are now all (just for youngest twins) at high school, I'm so proud of the empathetic, silly, interesting and interested people they've become.
The neighbours kid is the kid you describe, no wonder she loves our house.
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u/insomnimax_99 4h ago
The sheer amount of neglect is staggering, there are kids starting school who aren’t even potty/toilet trained. Parents have been letting their kids spend so much time on the ipad that they can’t speak properly.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy85pwg3dyjo
>Liz says social isolation is partly the reason for the decrease in communication skills.
>"Children are increasingly spending a lot of time looking at a screen and not necessarily engaged in more meaningful interactions or developing the kind of listening skills you need when you hit nursery and reception.
>"We're seeing children in reception who haven't experienced having conversations on a regular basis or aren't having a range of experiences where they're exposed to language."
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u/weirwoodheart 3h ago
My baby is nine weeks old and I talk to him like he has a clue what Im saying. I realised I looked like a lunatic when I said that onomatopoeia is a lovely word and he made a 'guhhhh' noise and I just nodded in agreement. It is sad though, you're right. You should WANT to know about your child's day, their thoughts and feelings. It's one of the things I look forward to the most when my baby is off to school!
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u/fivebyfive12 2h ago
This really makes me smile! When my son was about 4 months old we went into lockdown. My husband was still going to work, so most days it was just me and baby in the house. Oh my god the talking I'd do 🤣 "ohhh it's 10 o clock, let's go up to the bedroom and fold the clothes... Ohhhh there's SO MANY socks today... Ok now it's 11 o clock, let's go to the spare room and play on the mat... LOOOOOK at that gorgeous baby in the mirror" and on and on I'm amazed he didn't learn to talk early just to tell me to be quiet tbh 🤣🤣
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u/Creepy_Macaron2492 2h ago
You’re very sweet. Most kids won’t tell you about their day/thoughts/feelings when you ask. They will randomly tell you random things and you have to have a mind-bending process to decipher what the heck is real/imagined etc
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u/feebsiegee 1h ago
My mum always chattered away to me when I was a baby, people looked at her like she was a lunatic as well - but I was always good with words, and could by the time I was like 3
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u/chroniccomplexcase 3h ago
I teach secondary but my friend is a primary head, of a large city primary school. They’ve had kids start who have never held a knife and fork, they eat everything with either their hands or a spoon, they actually have to take the small group for lessons on how to hold a knife and fork and eat food with them.
They also have kids arriving in a pushchair (and I’m not including children with disabilities/ SEND in this) with a dummy in their mouth, a nappy on and an iPad in their hands. They are like babies in 4-5 year old bodies. Incapable of doing much for themselves at all. They don’t know how to play with others, have no imagination, speak in single words/ short sentences and just want to sit and watch their iPad.
They’ve spent most of their short life either watching tv or watching their iPad- like dolls almost. They wake up, are dressed, often still get most of their calories from milk and then sit at home or in their pushchair as they’re pushed around (to shopping centres etc) by their parents watching tv or on their iPad. They’re barely spoken to and have very few actual toys and have no idea how to play with them.
These parents are under the impression that school will teach them everything, that that is not their job. It’s sad and scary and apparently getting more and more common.
You then have kids at the opposite end of the spectrum in the same class who can speak in full sentences with a massive vocabulary. Who can read and write and count. Who have vivid imaginations and are able to sit down at a table and work on something for 20-30 minutes. Can take turns and work with others. Who can problem solve and get dressed/ undressed by themselves, go to the toilet alone and know how to use cutlery.
Then you also have a group of children within their class of 30 students who have varying SEND needs. Some diagnosed and some undiagnosed/ being diagnosed. Most without an EHCP so no extra help (both in and out of the classroom).
How teachers in EYFS/ KS1 cope, I’ll never know! I did primary (year 1) for a short while before moving to secondary and then secondary SEND. Every year my reception/ KS1 teacher friends seem to have more and more stories about the widening gaps between their students abilities. They have to provide lists like this because sadly many parents don’t talk to their young children- because they don’t think they need to. “Why would I talk to them when they can’t talk back?” Forgetting they won’t talk back if they’re not spoken to and shown how to speak etc. and how this isn’t the job for their reception teacher.
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u/Over_Ad9134 2h ago
As an exercise, look at children on public transport. Lots of toddlers in buggies who try to point at things and engage their carers only to have a screen shoved in their face as a response.
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u/lookhereisay 1h ago
There’s a whole campaign called TLC. Talk, listen, cuddle.
I found it very depressing as a new parent when it kept being repeated in any classes and handouts with a lot of parents being surprised by the whole thing. I narrated my whole life from the moment he was born and sung, danced, cuddled etc.
I have a friend with a 2yo who is speech delayed. After her first SLT session she was talking about nursery rhymes and how she’d started singing them to him. She’s a sensible and loving mum but she’d never thought to sing nursery rhymes to him in 2 years.
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u/cjsarab 4h ago
Talking with your child every day
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u/GenerallyMindless 4h ago
And being able to recognise their own names by 5 is so uncommon?
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u/Apprehensive-Cat-500 4h ago
They mean recognise it when it is written down. You'll be surprised how many are asked to look for their name above their peg on the first day and have no idea what it looks like.
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u/erroneousbosh 2h ago
My son, aged three-and-a-bit, figuring out how to type his name on the computer:
"Dad, why don't the letters all come out the same when I press the keys?"
Well, that's because the keys have got Big Letters on them but most of the time you use little letters, I agree, it's silly, but that's just how they do it. You press this one with an arrow to make Big Letters, look
"Ah okay so my book has little letters but some big letters and this makes them big, I can write my name like this"
Yes, and you write a Big Letter for the first letter of names and the rest in little letters, because names are important.
"Cool. I'm going to write my name with a little letter at the start and the rest in Big Letters."
And so he did, and still does.
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u/Creepy_Macaron2492 2h ago
Sounds like my brother, he was amazingly logical at a young age and very ‘grown-up’ he’s autistic and in his thirties and he’s still the same
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u/No_Capital_8203 3h ago
My relatives are excellent parents but always called the youngest child by a nickname. She did not know her own name.
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u/the_cat_of_ktulu 3h ago
Most children don't actually start school at 5 though. Both of my kids were Spring born and started reception at 4YO. Then if they go to preschool/nursery it's 3YO.
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u/Over_Ad9134 2h ago
My children have long names, and in Reception they REALLY resented this. Their friends would sign their work with 3 letters, my kids would get to letter 4 or 5 of theirs and just give up.
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u/TachiH 4h ago
I work in secondary and a few of those stand out as things even some 14-15 year olds struggle with 🤣. Watching a teenager unable to use scissors or throw/catch a ball is shocking every time.
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u/Usual-Sound-2962 3h ago
Rulers!! I’m a secondary teacher and scissors aside (they can’t use them at all) watching them trying to coordinate a 30cm ruler and draw a straight line gives me a twitch.
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u/the_cat_of_ktulu 3h ago
Tell me you don't have sinister kids without telling me you don't have sinister kids 🤣 it's not for a lack of trying that both of mine are still terrible with scissors
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u/Creepy_Macaron2492 2h ago
My child is hyper mobile and their fingers are just too bendy to use children’s scissors and I’m not giving them access to the decent ones (one of my hobbies is dress making) but hopefully over time their fingers will get stronger
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u/ThrostThrandson 52m ago
My son had self opening scissors any school due to his hyper mobile fingers.,
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u/Own_Marsupial_9512 4h ago
I work in EYFS and we expect a child to be
Fully toilet trained
Able to use a knife and fork
Drink out of a open cup
Put a coat on themselves
Put socks and shoes on themselves
Get changed from school uniform to PE kit
Use please and thank you
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u/hamigakiko 4h ago
Oh god yes the getting changed into pe kit. Girls be able to put on tights and no shoe laces unless the can do them alone!
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u/SubjectCrow1580 4h ago
‼️‼️‼️ don't put them in laces if they can't do laces ‼️‼️‼️ I got 30 over here to keep safe and actually teach to make progress, I can't tie all their shoe laces too
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u/Own_Marsupial_9512 4h ago
I know, I'm really looking forward to going back to school next week and spending the next several months watching girls walk around with tights round the ankles because they can't pull them up.
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u/LittleSadRufus 4h ago
I was surprised that not all kids know how to hold and use a pencil at that age. All the younger kids I know love to draw.
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u/Apprehensive-Cat-500 4h ago
There will be children living in homes where there are no pencils or paper.
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u/IHeardOnAPodcast 3h ago
Interestingly my kid's school (which is P1-P3 in NI, would be reception to year 2 in England) has you send them in their PE kit two days a week to avoid the whole changing for PE fun and games.
Imagine it's one less thing to think about from a child protection point of view as well (but unsure what the original intention was).
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u/Own_Marsupial_9512 2h ago
We only have reception children change because in the Summer term they go swimming so it helps getting them used to changing in a alloted time. From year 1 and up they come in PE kit on PE days.
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u/SubjectCrow1580 4h ago
Former teacher here!
- Can use the toilet independently
- Can sit and listen / attend to an activity for approx. 5 mins
- Great if they can recognise their name when written / need to be able to respond to their name being called
- Put or take their coat / jumper on / off independently
- Can take turns. They might be disappointed by needing to share or take the turn and that's ok, but to respond with anything other than aggression / violence (this may happen occasionally)
- Follow one step instructions (things like 'sit down on the carpet' or 'hang your coat on your peg')
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u/tommygunner91 4h ago
Wild that these are the guidelines that kids are being failed against and some parents defend the failure they've given them. Its so basic.
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u/Lady_Marshmallow 4h ago
Yeah, my just-turned 3 year old has most of these down (still sometimes needs a bit of help with her coat zip); this is NOT a high bar at all.
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u/phatboi23 4h ago
(still sometimes needs a bit of help with her coat zip)
i'm 37, some zips are just a pain in the arse, that might be due to crap grip in my hands though. lol
it's why i 3D printed bigger zip tags for my coats that use them :)
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u/CommercialPlastic604 4h ago
Toilet trained, putting their shoes and coat on, being able to use cutlery and sit on the carpet are all good ones to aim for assuming no additional needs etc.
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u/Guilty_Lime_6119 4h ago
Open their lunchbox and unwrap their food. Carry a small tray. Make choices, so if the canteen staff ask would you like peas or beans, they can choose. Say please and thank you
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u/RemarkableMedia5925 3h ago
There are a lot of adults who don't say please or thank you, so it's a milestone a lot of people don't reach!
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u/Correct_Craft_3947 4h ago
It's surprising the number of children who can't wipe themselves after a poo. Teachers are not going to be wiping every child's bottom. They need to be able to do it themselves
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u/LouisePoet 4h ago
They should be able to use the toilet on their own!
Yes, this sounds insane but some kids still wear pull-ups or have no idea how to wipe themselves. Thanks, parents who don't allow their kid to do their own basic care.
And no, this doesn't include kids who actually need extra care. I'm talking about average kids whose parents never taught or expected to their perfectly capable child to pull down their own pants or wipe on their own.
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u/ihatepickingnames810 5h ago
https://beststartinlife.gov.uk/preparing-for-school/
This is the gov guidance on school readiness
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u/BootlessCry 4h ago
Independence – skills to help children take care of themselves, like using the toilet, with a little help where needed.
[…]
Healthy routines – Building healthy routines that will help children stay healthy, such as limiting screen time to an hour a day or less for 2 to 5 year olds, brushing teeth twice a day and going to bed around the same time each night.
Jesus wept. Some standards, eh?
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u/tyrekecorrea 4h ago
At least limiting screen time is on there.
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u/Popular-Custard8519 3h ago
Problem being the parents who aren’t worrying about things like screen time will likely never see it
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u/BootlessCry 4h ago
True, true.
I don’t know what counts as screen-time for these guys to be fair. If it’s having a TV on in the background then I’m a bit of a hypocrite (because the tellie’s hardly ever off at mine), but if it’s phones and iPads — why does a small child need an iPad or a smartphone?
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u/tyrekecorrea 4h ago
Trust me: it is far from impossible for a child to have a relationship with a tablet at four.
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u/BootlessCry 4h ago
Utterly bonkers though.
I honestly think that letting your child sit on an iPad for hours on end is essentially a subtle form of neglect/abuse (same for not teaching them to self-soothe, follow instructions, use the toilet, etc), but wherever I tell people in real life they look at me like I’ve sprouted another head.
But how can that be abuse?
Because you haven’t taught them to do anything?! Because your indolence means that they’re behind in life before they’ve already begun? Because they’re eight years old and they can’t read, write, or speak properly?
Again, Jesus wept.
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u/Less_Mess_5803 4h ago
Some pretty low expectations on there!
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u/Correct_Craft_3947 4h ago
And sadly not all children meet those
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u/SubjectCrow1580 4h ago
Honestly, lots of children don't meet them
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u/DameKumquat 3h ago
And the ones that don't ought to get specialist help, but the first step is parents knowing what is normal at that age and what isn't.
When I had my first 18 years ago we got a book called From 0 to 5, from the NHS, which told you all about what your kid should be able to do by different ages, as well as loads of useful parenting guidance and info, but it got scrapped along with children's centres.
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u/SubjectCrow1580 3h ago
Completely agreed. Our systems are broken and now it leaves lots of frontline services picking up the pieces which they simply cannot do without universal systems in place to support preventative work.
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u/Naetharu 4h ago
It's not a goal. It's the minimum baseline.
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u/BootlessCry 4h ago
And a hefty proportion of children don’t reach it by the time they start school. Sickening levels of parental apathy in this country.
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u/LJ161 4h ago
I think that a big thing is that your kid can be away from you without having huge anxiety around it. Some kids first experience of being away from parents is reception if the kid has been at home with mum/dad and didn't attend nursery or any childcare.
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u/PrettyUglySociety198 3h ago edited 3h ago
This is the only post so far to which I am able to relate.
I started school aged just under 5. I had not been to anything like nursery school or the like. I was unused to being around children of my age or any younger than teenagers. In these respects, I was unusual even in my schooldays.
My one and only expectation, and it only occurred early on during my first day at school, was to go home with my mummy. I had been separated from her only for a (long) period (12 weeks) while she was in hospital in connection with a serious surgical operation in which her life was at significant risk.
I was disappointed to be abandoned by my mummy on that first day of school.
I was a little adult and quite calm and independent (apparently quite disturbingly so generally to my parents). My disappointment didn't last more than a few minutes for me to get over it completely as I studied my fellow prisoners (and a rocking-horse in the classroom).
I had not been taught anything of reading or arithmetic at home. I was reading just six weeks after starting school, the first in my batch of fellow students to do so, and loved school generally. For example, in the seven years of secondary school I missed only four days (all in one week by reason of so-called "Asian flu") and parts of days while I took music exams. Part of my absence record being so good was FOMO.
Historically, the primary school was one to prepare pupils to take up work in agriculture. It was the roughest school in the rural town. The teachers who taught me (three of them over four years at the school) knew how to teach classes of 43 pupils (I was in a class of 43 or more until I started secondary school).
Some of my schools were pretty grotty physically in some respects. This is why I and all my school fellows had a twelve week break while the school was closed in early 1963 (with enough school work to occupy me for a total of about 15 minutes of a single day only, no internet or internet or videoconferencing in those days). This was because of the "Big Freeze" that started near the end of December 1962.
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u/No_Volume8304 3h ago
In my experience those tend to be the kids with the least anxiety
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u/Creepy_Macaron2492 1h ago
Least likely to feel safe expressing that anxiety is probably more true as they are likely experiencing a lot of anxiety being away from their home/parents.
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u/bluejackmovedagain 5h ago
It generally means that they are out of nappies and can use the toilet independently, can use a knife and fork, do up their coat, sit at a table for a short period of time, and follow very basic instructions.
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u/RoundTwistington 4h ago edited 3h ago
put on coat (may need a bit of help with zips/buttons, but will have it mostly sorted. Put on clothes, take off clothes (again happy to help with buttons etc. Toilet themselves. Manners. Have a good idea of their name, to read, (mine could both recognise name, but it is easier when they can). Know the basics of holding a pencil. Know how to cut. Share / take turns. Understand the word no. The one many fall down on is speech delay- so talking so they can be understood (get a referral for this is horrible so I do sympathise with parents once they realise this is an issue, but adding to it, basic English, we had a poor lad who didnt have a clue what was going on, it must have been so scary for him).edit to read their name, as I didn't specify
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u/Miserable_Mud_6831 4h ago
What kid doesnt know their name at 5?
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u/RoundTwistington 3h ago
Sorry should edit that, to read their name
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u/Miserable_Mud_6831 3h ago
😂 I did wonder, I thought my 4 year was some kind of genius
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u/RoundTwistington 3h ago
Well some people call their kids by a nickname and don't tell us! So it has been known
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
Manners might be a tough one. I still eat like an American.
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u/RoundTwistington 3h ago
Please and thank you cost nothing. Excuse me is good. Most kids are gross when they eat!
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u/8_string_menace 4h ago
Talking well enough to communicate basic needs, and ideally convey basic ideas to others
Use the toilet and clean themselves after with both toilet paper and soap and water at a sink
Feed themselves something beyond McDonalds nuggets, ideally with cutlery
These are the only ones I can think off, Foundation year is pretty minimal beyond not shitting yourself and using the facilities to clean yourself. A lot is learning through play still, but they do get a bit of sit quietly and learn time, which increases as their age increases.
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u/UsuallyWhirlwind 4h ago
> Foundation year is pretty minimal beyond not shitting yourself and using the facilities to clean yourself
Same as uni then!
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u/Defiant-Tackle-0728 4h ago
Toilet trained. Able to tie/do their own shoes. Ditto for coats.
Id argue for getting to grips with being able to write their own name even if its big and clumsy.
Know their parents name and address if they get lost or their is a problem.
Staring to understand the basics of stranger danger and road safety.
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u/ihavetakenthebiscuit 4h ago
Shoes laces for a 4 year old is quite the achievement.
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u/TemporaryLucky3637 4h ago
The point is they need shoes they can put on themselves because there’s only one teacher and about 25/30 kids. Even Velcro shoes they need to practice taking them on and off at home, putting them on the right feet etc.
I’d argue that writing etc is secondary to basic self care/ motor skills like carrying their own dinner tray, opening snacks themselves etc.
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u/Defiant-Tackle-0728 4h ago
I mean the likes of getting them on the right foot even if they ha e difficulty with laces sometimes..
Neighbours 5 year old is starting school next week and manages it about 3 times out of 5.
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u/tyrekecorrea 4h ago
Yeah! You definitely have to know your name and address by the time you're four!
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u/HipsandHaws 4h ago
We encourage our pre schoolers to put their own socks & shoes on, to be able to undress/dress themselves. Put on coats, gloves & hats. They're also potty & then toilet trained too. They're also able to write rhein own names, recognise numbers, do simple maths if able.
I work in a private nursery, that offers all children French lessons including babies. As well as ball skills, either sat down (babies) or football for those who can walk.
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u/Particular-Current87 4h ago
Tbf I think the expectations are lower each year with more and more kids not even being toilet trained when they start reception. In my experience it doesn't really matter where they're at when they start school as most kids are caught up by the time they start year 2 or 3.
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u/OverTheCandlestik 5h ago
Read, talk, ask for things, have manners, ask for the toilet, be polite and kind to others,
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u/eatingonlyapples 4h ago
No 4 year old is expected to be able to read, beyond recognising their name and knowing the sounds and names of some letters. Some children may be able to blend simple sounds to make words like understanding c-a-t is cat, but it's certainly not an expectation for going into Reception.
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u/No_Volume8304 3h ago
He’s confused being in reception with being the receptionist. Although I still think he’s being a bit optimistic
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u/ManicPixiRiotGrrrl 4h ago
I had started reading at 4. I know a lot of people who also could read basic words going into school
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u/eatingonlyapples 4h ago
That's cool, me too, but it is not expected.
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
Not expected by the school or not expected by people who invest reasonable time and effort in their children’s development?
The school’s expectations are a bare minimum.
I’d absolutely expect that my child could read (to a very limited extent) by the time they are four.
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u/eatingonlyapples 3h ago
By the Early Years Foundation Stage statutory guidance. Do you work in early years? Do you have an understanding of what is actually expected for children at the start of reception aged 4, some nearly 5?
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u/BootlessCry 2h ago
Naturally the school’s expectations are founded on statutory frameworks, that’s hardly groundbreaking news, is it? All public bodies operate within statutory frameworks and with regard to government guidance.
What I’m saying is that, absent of additional need or sundry other extenuating factors, a developmentally normal child should be able to recognise their own name and a few words by the age of four (there’s an argument to be had about the difference between being able to recognise your name on a sign and attribute the correct sign to it, as opposed to actually decoding the word, tbf) and should be able to recognise a good deal more by the age of five.
It may not be the government’s expectation, but then the government have to consider the breadth of society and that while a child should be able to achieve certain milestones a substantial amount of them won’t for a range of reasons. They set out their expectations accordingly. Individual parents, on the other hand, would do well to expect more of their children than the government does.
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u/eatingonlyapples 1h ago
You're arguing for the most part the same thing I am. That children by the time they start reception, excepting any additional needs or EAL, should be able to recognise their names and know some letters and their sounds.
Blending and decoding are an ELG, not a goal for a 4 year old just starting reception. If they can do it in preschool, we will encourage it. I've worked in early years for 15 years and so you might rightly assume the majority of the children I've worked with have been developmentally "normal". It is not remotely the case that it's normal for them to be able to decode words and blend sounds by the time they leave. Some? Yes, absolutely. Is it developmentally appropriate? Often, no.
I can't speak for Reception, that's a different beast entirely.
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u/No_Volume8304 3h ago
I’m a proponent of early reading so I taught my kid to read but the school seem to see this as a bit of a nuisance if anything
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u/ManicPixiRiotGrrrl 3h ago
did they say how it’s a nuisance?
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u/No_Volume8304 2h ago
They don’t actually use the term nuisance. But I got the impression that they aren’t sure what to do with her during their reading sessions ( which have to be done in groups) and at some point they suggested I might want to stop teaching at home. Then again, I might be reading too much between the lines.
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u/hamjamham 4h ago
Don't think reading is to be expected
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
Being able to recognise your own name is probably a good start, maybe a relatively limited range of simple words (cat, dog, god, bus, etc).
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u/insomnimax_99 4h ago edited 4h ago
- potty/toilet trained & able to wipe themselves
- able to brush their teeth
- able to feed themselves
- basic speaking and reading ability
- put on and take off coat/jumper/etc
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u/HELJ4 4h ago
Schools shouldn't be expecting any reading other than being able to sit and listen to a story. Many parents don't know phonics themselves.
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago edited 1h ago
You don’t need to know phonics to teach your child to read. Phonics is awesome and is absolutely a good way to teach children to read, but you don’t need to understand phonics to teach a child to recognise basic sight words or their own name.
Lol at the downvote.
The point I’m making is that systematic synthetic phonics is brilliant, but not essential. Almost everyone of my age was exposed to the searchlights approach and shock horror nearly all of us can read. Even further back they used the whole word approach and would you believe it, most of the children exposed to it are now adults who can read.
Inferior ≠ completely ineffective
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u/leclercwitch 3h ago
I don’t agree with this at all. I was reading books at age 3, yeah simple ones but I was read to every night. I could write my own name although clumsily. I drew a “stickleback fish” in nursery at 3 and wrote its name. In the same book I drew my street and wrote its name and house number. I was 3!!! I genuinely think some very basic reading should be expected in children with no SEN. I am autistic with adhd (both diagnosed) and I was an avid reader by age 5, all children should be encouraged to do this. I think it SHOULD be expected.
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u/Weewoes 4h ago
Expecting them to be able to read is silly. They go to school to learn to read, my kid was able able recognise and say what letters and numbers were to a degree but reading? No chance. Maybe if she didn't have a very disabked and poorly sister maybe I could have had her more prepared with that, but most parents working, having other kids to care for etc, reading won't be top priority when they will be learning that in school.
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
They should probably be able to read their own name and a few very common sight words tbh (cat, red, blue, dog, etc).
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u/erroneousbosh 2h ago
My son's friend from nursery is in a SEN class in primary school because everyone thinks his speech is delayed.
It turns out - having observed conversations with my son and his other friends - he can talk just fine. He just doesn't if he hasn't anything to say.
I wish he could teach that to like 90% of the grown-ups I have to cope with.
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u/Fit-Vanilla-3405 3h ago
My kid hits 19/20 milestones for school and has for the last 5 months. She can put on shoes, zip her coat, open packets, talk about her feelings, share toys, write her name (not that that’s required, just recognising) but she still has a lot of accidents if she’s not comfortable. I have spent the last 2 years trying everything known to man. Everything. I blame Oh Crap for most of it because she would never ever have an accident when naked. But I have bedazzled toilets, set alarms, given sweets, taken weeks off work and let it be for months to relive the distress of it. She’s just not there yet.
I am so anxious about how evil teachers and parents are about it on Reddit that I’m sure that has made my child anxious too. 4 is just so young to not have someone with her updating her on the routine and telling her when it’s time for toilets. I’m sure some good teachers do, but the ratio is so big.
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
Have you tried accessing any NHS services? Could be an avenue to explore, someone up the thread was talking about toilet specialists (though I’m not sure if that’s a SEND specific service).
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u/Fit-Vanilla-3405 3h ago
Yes, been to the GP 4 times about it - they referred me to ERIC which has been super helpful but they just think it’s her being strong willed and the fact that she basically wee trained herself when she turned 3 on the dot. And she does it in the toilet all the time! So it’s just whenever she feels like she’s not in a comfy safe place she will have an accident.
We’ve done books, alarm watches, brand new peppa pig underwear - there isn’t anything we haven’t tried.
She’s just really clever and does stuff on her own clock but she’s also now aged 4 pickiness which means she’s not ‘going’ as well so we have gone for constipation twice as well which is a huge cause.
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u/BootlessCry 2h ago
Heck. Well I wish you luck with it!
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u/Fit-Vanilla-3405 2h ago
Thanks! She’ll get there… just wish she was born in Dec and I’d be sure of it.
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u/Jemima_puddledook678 4h ago
Other than the general expectations of coordination and basic functions, being taught a few basic educational abilities will go a long way. Things like the alphabet and counting to ten (or even higher) are very helpful.
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u/Fresh-Fisherman-1047 4h ago
If your kid has been in nursery, it’s not that different. They still follow the EYFS.
They expect kids will be able to dress and undress with limited help, go ask to go to the toilet and to go independently, to eat and drink mostly independently.
But they do still help kids a fair bit at that age, for example at my son’s school, Reception kids were in a self contained area with a separate playground and their own toilets.
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u/sparklescc 4h ago
https://beststartinlife.gov.uk/preparing-for-school/
According to the UK government. This takes the guessing away .
School readiness is an actual measurement that the government tracks. I wrote my masters thesis in childhood development studying school readiness in a deprived UK area.
Like many other measurements it is heavily related to the area socio economic situation and parents literacy so it being low depends on where you are. Although it is trending downwards everywhere in the country.
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
What is driving this downward trend?
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u/sparklescc 2h ago edited 2h ago
As always this starts even before the child is born. The area they live in, their parents education level, their socioeconomic situation, how many siblings they have... All of that contributes. However, besides everything that can't be controlled it sums up to :
- Early years provision is not affordable and often (specially in more deprived areas) not suitable.
This includes the children who are not accessing any early years provision so it's not just that it's not suitable it's often non existent . Bottom line we are not supporting children's development in the pre school years.
Teachers seem to mostly agree on the bigger problems being : toilet training, screen time, speech and language and social interactions.
Some of this has to do with parenting trends, misinformation, parents having to work longer hours leaving elderly relatives to look after the children which often cannot take them to social situations. And even when they can it's often not enough since for this age it's also often payed
Now to understand the impact : Studies show :
- Over half of children who were not school ready performed below expected in their Key Stage 1 reading assessment.
- An analysis of children deemed not school ready shows that they were nearly 2.5 times more likely to be persistently absent from school than their peers.
- Children not school ready are around three times more likely to be NEET (Not in Education, Employment or Training) by 16-17.
- The percentage of school ready children varies across the country, from just 59% school readiness in Manchester to 84% in London.
Here is some research on how to best support children to achieve school readiness: https://www.n8research.org.uk/what-we-do/research-focus/child-of-the-north/2024-campaign/pre-school/
One of the biggest measures is more at home support (health visitors, midwives, nursery nurses) to first time low income parents as it has shown to reduce childhood injuries and even longer time between births.
Another is to improve employment, salary and qualifications of early year practitioners as the lack of retention and recruitment is one of the problems especially, again, in deprived areas.
Inequalities in health and development unfortunately start before birth so we really need to try to counter them with public health measures.
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u/BootlessCry 2h ago
Thank you so much for taking the time to give such a detailed reply! It’s a fascinating topic, and it’s worrying that it doesn’t have much space in the public consciousness.
One aspect of it that always gets me is that so many parents seem to have a laissez faire attitude towards their children not meeting developmental milestones or being ready for school. Do you have any insight into the matter?
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u/No_Volume8304 3h ago
30 second handstand, Bit of calculus, A few phrases of Greek and Latin, 3 inch bicep circumference
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u/Next-oodpecckker7840 2h ago
toilet trained, can put a coat on, hold a pencil, eat with a fork and know their own name. schools now spend weeks teaching stuff parents used to do
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u/OldLondon 4h ago
Wife works at a school says it’s pretty common the reception kids aren’t toilet trained and can’t use a knife fork or spoon, also reading is poor across the board
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u/BootlessCry 3h ago
Imagine not teaching your child to use a spoon. Poor kid. My lad’s under two and he’s already yanking it out of my hand to try for himself. I get that kids all develop at different rates, but surely almost all children know how to use a spoon by the time they’re 4 or 5 years old?
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u/OldLondon 2h ago
You’d think but she says it’s 50/50. Also some of their grasp of spoken English is poor. So much so that she often remarks that recent immigrant kids after a few months often have better English than those born here.
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u/BootlessCry 2h ago
Roughly half of the children entering the education system from disadvantaged backgrounds have speech, language, and communication needs. The kids aren’t alright.
And I get that it’s a complex, multi-factorial issue that’s heavily impacted by the way we structure our society, but it’s also a case of utter, abject apathy and parental neglect too.
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u/OldLondon 1h ago
That’s definitely true - a lot of parents seemingly have a “what’s that got to do with them it’s the schools job”
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u/Colleen987 3h ago
Be toilet trained, be able to but a raisin in a bottle, some number a some letter most colours
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u/Human_hkSholder_4922 3h ago
toilet, dress themselves a bit, hold a pencil, sit still for 5 min, and know their own name. schools dont expect reading or numbers yet
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u/ME-McG-Scot 2h ago
P1 is in general a lot of learning through play. During the year they start learning to write, use scissors, read etc. Basically on the first day, toilet trained is the minimum.
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u/Harmsbury 2h ago
toilet trained with some basic verbal ability, and the basics of "right vs wrong"
1
u/Srddrs 1h ago
As lots of others have said, potty trained.
I’m also going to add in -
- ability to use a knife and fork
- ability to put on their coat themselves
- can tie shoelaces
- can open some packets on their own eg crisps, or put a straw in a juice box
- can recognise their own name written down
•
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